So if psychedelics help prevent cluster headaches for months........

[kratomized]

doesnt that mean that theres some sort of residual vasoconstriction at play here? I ask this because I tried 4-aco-met for the first time on sunday and had an OK experience but I had some pretty alarming heart palpitations while under its influence. This seemed to subside and post trip everything was calm. I had a few beers, chilled out and went to sleep. But its weds now and Ive been having a few palpitations, mild chest tension and slight pains that seem to be decreasing in frequncy and intensity every night. In other words today isnt as bad as yesterday and yesterday isnt as bad as monday. I just hope that anyone who thinks about taking this or its very close cousin 4 HO met know that these are much more stimulating than Im used to feeling in a tryptamine....Even more so than LSD and even 2ci in my experience. So be aware of any cardiovascular issues you may have... Ive seen other complaints online about this and my close friend who I trpped with is very much into cocaine and speed regularly felt that this compound was up there in terms of stimulation. Be careful out there.

 

[Help?!?!]

IDK man, those symptoms are also caused by anxiety, IMO it is. Once the drugs out of your system, it can't cause any more effects like that because theirs simply no more chemical to do so. I don't find 4subs stimulating at al. I really don't like stimulants. They cause me aniexty without benzos, and I was d-ampethamine/methylphenidate for ten years of my life... 2c-I caused me aniexty after I stopped using those sort of things. I could defintely do it but it's not very nice...

Forgot to add it's probably sympathetic relief of BP/etc(once again though once the chemical is out of your system it can't continue to do this so it's probably an unknown long lasting mechanism...). It's not fully understood fully yet....

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

If I remember correctly, the half life of 4-aco-met is around 3-4 hours (meaning 50% of the drug has already worked it's way out of your system by then) so I think it's very unlikely that 3 days later you'd be having negative symptoms from the drug.
You said that you were having palpitations before you ever took the MET and had some while on it and now 3 days later you are having them still.
This suggests to me that the MET had little to nothing to do with your condition and was merely a coincidence.
Go see a doctor if you are having palpitations on a regular basis. I don't think that's normal but I am certainly not a doctor.
Take care!!!

 

[Help?!?!]

If I remember correctly, the half life of 4-aco-met is around 3-4 hours (meaning 50% of the drug has already worked it's way out of your system by then) so I think it's very unlikely that 3 days later you'd be having negative symptoms from the drug.
You said that you were having palpitations before you ever took the MET and had some while on it and now 3 days later you are having them still.
This suggests to me that the MET had little to nothing to do with your condition and was merely a coincidence.
Go see a doctor if you are having palpitations on a regular basis. I don't think that's normal but I am certainly not a doctor.
Take care!!!

Exactly what I was saying, I just couldn't remember is they had HL info for it! I know it doesn't have a long via trials with it but didn't want to to quot possible misinformation!

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Oh yeah... Totally forgot about the whole point of why I was originally posting here...
I do suffer from migraines/cluster headaches and my personal research has found that only LSD and actual psilocybin mushrooms allieviate headaches for me.
Interestingly, 4-aco-xxx do not and I'm just beginning research into other Lysergermides and if they help my headaches as well.
My very limited understanding is that cluster headaches and migraines are caused by vasoconstriction that's localized within the brain. I'm sure that much smarter people here in bluelight could give a better explanation!

 

[Help?!?!]

Oh yeah... Totally forgot about the whole point of why I was originally posting here...
I do suffer from migraines/cluster headaches and my personal research has found that only LSD and actual psilocybin mushrooms allieviate headaches for me.
Interestingly, 4-aco-xxx do not and I'm just beginning research into other Lysergermides and if they help my headaches as well.
My very limited understanding is that cluster headaches and migraines are caused by vasoconstriction that's localized within the brain. I'm sure that much smarter people here in bluelight could give a better explanation!

Haha, me too! Damn trying to hurry up and multiple post! I don't think I suffer from cluster headaches(check out the vids about them on YT, you wouldn't not know...they last for days and oxygen is one of the few things that can alleviate the symptoms besides psyches, many peopl with CH's contemplate suicide and such due to the insane serverity of it!). I'll look into but I do believe it is serve vasoconstriction but also other effects, as most psychedelics are actually at least mildly vasoconstrictors, and aspirin is actually a blood thinner so it would mildly help with them or rather should!

I do however suffer from migraines of sometimes truly debilitating status! Psychedelics defintely help with them. As long as I trip at least once to twice a month, my migraines are much more rare, and far easier to deal with! I can easily hope up a level 8.5 pain level, I'll sometimes have serve nausea, and vomiting!

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

The best migraine medication I ever used (except for LSD ) was Cafergot (ergot and caffine) but my doctor stopped prescribing that for me in the 90's.
I've gotten Immitrex several times at the hospital for severe migraines but everytime I developed chest pain so pretty much at the time the only thing that worked was LSD and I haven't looked back.
Interesting point about psychedelics being vasoconstrictors!!
Most likely I had it backwards and cluster headaches/ migraines are caused by dilation of blood vessels in the brain and the vasoconstriction by 5h2a agonists help with that.
I suspect that beaocystin and or psilocybin play a bigger role than pisilocin as I have gotten cluster headaches in between 4-aco-dmt trials but not shrooms.

 

[kratomized]

This was the point i was trying to make.... psychedelics are out of your system lightening fast..so why would they prevent cluster headaches for weeks and months if they didnt have long lasting vasoconstrictive effects? The cluster headaches are caused by vasodilation of blood vessels in the brain (from my research)

Balls trippington... I very clearly stated in another thread that I OCCASIONALLY have palpitations....I mean, once a month maybe...its just a very jolting sensation. Its ucomfortable....but supposedly harmless in MOST cases. Many people experience this , its rather common. Im very familiar with this sensation and it began happening during my MET trip...you suggested maybe i was imagining it....Im sure that I was not. Ever since that trip Ive been having it more frequently with no apparent triggers...no anxiety ..no changes in habits since this trip etc.

On top of all this I have found a good handful of reports that people experienced palpitations and other cardiovascular issues while experiementing with 4 aco/ho Met. Theres even an erowid report. I can pull links, pages etc. but you can literally type into google "palpitations" and "4 aco met" and there are several results at the top of the page.

Is it so crazy to accpet that maybe this research chemical doesnt agree with me?

 

[Help?!?!]

Not at all! I was just trying to offer probable solutions... Try another psychedelic then, but this will probably be common place in those instances too. That's why I said the current research is unknown to the exact method causing this. It's still terribly hard to conduct research on these chemicals because of our stupid government! It may take years to find the exact cause considering actual science hasn't figured out to much information on it besides the vasodilaton caustion. Half lives are how long the chemical actually stays in you body, so it can only offer effects via certain mediation for the time it's actually in your body hence the unknown methodology of how it works...

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

I do think it's a good idea to probably stay away from the MET.
I just don't think that there's conclusive evidence at all that it was the MET for certain and I might have been!
It's very common for people to get a cold or get a headache or whatever days after taking something and blame it on the drug and I'm not saying that's what happening but it's just convenient.
I tried googling Tylenol and heart palpitations and it also anticipated what I was typing so I think it might do that based on spelling. But I don't know about that either lol.
Like I said I'm not a medical professional so I really can't give medical advice. For all I know, it may take several months for the vasodilation to build to the point that it causes a headache and that's the reason mushroom treatments are only required once every three months and it's not the case that the drug is doing something in your brain 3 months after it's left your system. That's probably more likely than the drug having an effect for 90 days.
But I'm no neurologist.

 

[Help?!?!]

Yeah pretty much! Though psychedelics have been clearly linked for causing a drop in immunological function for a couple days after tripping. So if a person gets into excursions whilst tripping(many do!), don't eat properly, and stuff forgets to wash hands after such events/etc. Then it's more likely for a person to get sick.

Just one example quickly, http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0300483X9402955T.

 

[Solipsis]

Things like MET and DMT do raise heartrate and BP (the way you take it determines whether its more of a short peak or long mild thing), but not dangerously unless there are other things at play that make a person highly sensitive to cardiovascular issues.

But psilocin from mushrooms is physically even more benign which is clear from how extremely hard it is to overdose physically.

Don't think there is a good reason to suspect why a close analogue like 4-HO-MET is different, especially while the explanation making sense is that such psychedelics can cause anxiety problems and anxiety can cause palpitations and many more things. If you never had a full blown panic attack it's hard to believe how serious it can feel (heart jumping, skipping, ominous feelings in the whole chest, etc etc) - it's common to get convinced it's something like a heart attack. It's not actually serious though, however alarming it feels, I had it once and after walking to the ER and back like 3 times I eventually went there.
Granted, hyperventilation for me caused my blood gas levels to go nuts which results in those alarming feelings, but its not a big threat.

The residual vasoconstriction thing is not a good fit sorry. I personally like 4-HO-MET and find 4-HO trypts in general to be very light on my body, though synth 4-HO-DMT indeed felt pretty damn anxious especially during the comeup phase, which does feel stimulating so I completely get your concern! However what it feels like is not necessarily that good of an indicator of how treatening it is. A hangover doesn't tell you how toxic a drug was either even if it's sometimes an indicator, a similar thing.
To some extent like I suggested, personally Id be careful smoking DMT while on a stim in a person with known heart problems... but drugs like LSD and psilocin, excellent for cluster headaches, are extremely well tolerated and surely also taken by plenty of people with heart problems.

 

[kratomized]

hmmm I like the last few responses from all you guys much more.... I must say that I did find 4 aco MET uniquely stimulating...as much as 25c nbome and 2ci.....how sure am i of the purity? Im not....but it was sourced from a reputable vendor and the effects match up to what others have been saying online...its interesting to me that you guys dont find it stimulating because so many others do. at any rate I REALLY appreciate all the help....

I feel like i should be clear about what palpitations are to me because it seems as if the term is used for several different symptoms..I believe due to a lack medical knowledge on this issue.... It feels as if the heart stops or has a "light" beat and then quickly tries to to "catch up" with a "stronger" beat....or a "skipping beat". It feels as if the rhythm is off for a second. "fluttering" is also a term i would use to describe what i experience. I find that OTHERS are referring to palpitations as random bouts of tachycardia.

Its now four days after the experience and the palpitations did occur today but even less. I feel that the issue is resolving. I do feel that this compound is definitely worth revisiting but I will refrain for my own safety. It definitely gave me a scare....no matter how you slice it. A skipping heart is NOT a properly working heart and that cant be good.

I found some information stating that "strain" on the heart often causes a "skipping beats"....strain doesnt sound good to me. I dont know why this chem caused me a strain becuase Ive never experienced this on and psychoactive substance that i can recall

 

[Solipsis]

Palpitations are the sensation of the heart really thumping in your chest. It doesn't even necessarily have something to do with tachycardia as you can have this sensation while being just fine in the healthy ranges of heart activity, although of course one can have palpitations while being tachycardic. (Or maybe not if the sensations felt then are inherent to the tachycardia)

Fluttering feelings also don't have to mean much, and yes the skipping 'break' feeling you describe sound typical and strongly reminds me of my ex who has quite heavy anxiety problems also had the fluttering, especially on a certain medication. Her GP tested her and found her to be just fine mostly to reassure her which it did, I was actually there at the time.

Actual arrythmia is of course not a good thing for health, but the feeling of a skipping heart is not the same as an arrythmia - anxiety and the associated hormones and catecholamines would be logical to have an effect on the heart and the sensation of the heart, but if being anxious could cause dangerous arrythmias many people would be fucked! OK not counting scaring a 90 year old person literally to death obviously.

On the other hand chronic stress is just very bad for you in general, and even the effects of anxiety staying within normal activity ranges doesn't mean it's particularly good - but I wouldn't worry about it as much as you are and try to place it in that panic attack perspective, and the strong suggestibility involving disturbing physical sensations.

When apparently strange heart activity, but especially when combined with other symptoms like angina etc, persist for a time and there doesn't seem to be any anxiety whatsoever to link it to - then for everyone at some time there would come a point where you get tested, but first you check yourself to absolutely exclude anxiety, not necessarily panic but even underlying anxiety, as the causing factor .. and to check that enough other symptoms actually do point to a physical condition, where anxiety as explanation just won't do.