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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Smoking heroin

"How much do you have to be smoking to do that because anytime I've smoked some tar it always felt like I'd be uncontrollably nodding well before I would get sick. It seems like it would pretty hard to overdo it, unless of course you were carelessly smoking a bunch. I know when I'm smoking it I'm always overly cautious."


To add to my previous post, and in answer to your specific question "how much…?", from my personal experience it's very difficult to be precise about what dose or quantity causes an overdose when heroin is smoked. Unless you have access to pharmaceutical grade pure heroin and can be certain about the purity and strength of what you're smoking, then the question of how much is largely irrelevant.


I've smoked heroin habitually for over 10 years and have a lot of experience with the drug. I've overdosed on a number of occasions, mostly in the first three years before I developed a high tolerance. Each time I overdosed was when I smoked heroin (aside from one occasion Ive only smoked heroin). On one memorable occasion, when I'd first started smoking and had only been smoking for around a year, I had been waiting for my wife to go to bed so I could have a quick smoke. I hadn't smoked the day before, but I had smoked the day before that; my tolerance wasn't that high. I sat at the kitchen table and had a couple of quick big 'smokes'. I had no intention of having a lengthy session and wanted to be quick so as not to get caught.
After my second inhale I felt a massive pleasant rush and then a sinking feeling, which was so comfortable and beguiling i wasn't able to pull out of it. I'd collapsed face down on the kitchen table. I don;'t know how long I was alone in that situation, but obviously at some point my (ex)wife came downstairs and found me. This is all what I've been told, because my next memory after having a smoke was lying on my kitchen floor with a paramedic cutting off my shirt and preparing to inject me in the heart with an antidote… which didn't happen, because I woke up with a start and began babbling and trying to stand up. I was taken to the hospital, observed for a number of hours before being released. At the time I was off my head and the experience wasn't frightening. But when I sobered up the enormity of what I'd been through hit home; I easily could have stopped breathing and died.. and only after a couple of big smokes!
This is a genuine account. Do not think that you can't OD from smoking heroin.
Out of interest, why is this issue so important to you and why do you appear to minimise the dangers of smoking heroin?
I assume that being only 17, your opinion isn't based on experience; so what is your authority and why do you apparently so strongly believe in it?
Do you have another motivation for wanting to minimise the risks of drug use?
I find it hard to comprehend your position, particularly after so many experienced drug users have told you that your statements are inaccurate.
At times I wonder whether you're being deliberately provocative and trolling. I have no interest in being dismissive or demeaning anyone;s opinion; I'm only motivated by recounting my genuine experiences and cautioning new users on the risks of drug use.
Be careful and continue to be cautious with your smoking. Unfortunately I believe it to be a truism that no matter how cautious you are, any prolonged period of using heroin will inevitably lead to physical dependence, something which I don;t wish on my worst enemy.

I started using heroin when I was relatively old (33), as an alternative to combat alcoholism. Which sounds absurd, but actually makes much sense since in theory heroin is much kinder on your liver and kidneys and doesn't turn you into an obnoxious aggressive twat; and it doesn't make you aggressive or the type of drunken twat that alcohol does, but it is far more an insidious and life-destroying drug in other ways. It isolates you and destroys your motivation to maintain social relationships and work towards your ambitions. The danger of starting using heroin when very young is that you throw away your life if you become addicted and will never achieve anything. Every young person believes themselves to be invincible and I doubt any heroin addict believed that they would become addicted, It's natural to think that you won't succumb to addiction. I recall friends - who at first used with me, but stopped very early on - telling me that I was playing dangerously close to the playground fence…


…and then one day, without realising it, I was physically dependent. You 'can' overcome dependence, but what isn't nearly highlighted enough is that more pernicious than screwing up your social life and career, is the fact that prolonged heroin use destroys your body's ability to regulate endorphin production, sometimes permanently, at least for many months or years. It is the inability to feel normal pleasures (anhedonia) and social isolation which leads to frequent relapse and depression. Believe me, it's an intolerable, horrendous condition: one that won't kill you outright but will make life hardly worth living when it's at its worst.
I appreciate the words of advice, I can see how it is more possible to OD through just smoking it as I thought it was. You did say the time you ODed that you went for a couple of quick 'big' smokes. I think most people using H will have already heard all the OD stories and such and would be more than careful to just smoke a tiny amount and see how you're feeling after. I don't have much experience but any time I've smoked it, I just fell asleep well before I would be starting to feel like I might be sick or took too much. I agree that heroin is a lot better on the body than alcohol in the long run, but with little willpower people can make it worse. I don't try to minimize the dangers of heroin at all I would just like more people to know that not just junkies do H and not everyone always falls into dependency and addiction when using heroin or opiates. People like to seem like you'll either OD or get addicted when using heroin to put people off of it, it's a shame really.
 
It is the rare person who can enjoy opioids and not turn into a daily user though. Not impossible but quite an endangered species.
 
'Hands up'! My friend OD'ed from smoking gear. She was whisked out to hospital where they saved her life. She never learned her lesson because a few months after she OD'ed smoking Oxycontin tabs, so dude, here's another story, it is 100% entirely possible to OD from smoking gear. Please stay safe :)
 
I don't try to minimize the dangers of heroin at all I would just like more people to know that not just junkies do H and not everyone always falls into dependency and addiction when using heroin or opiates. People like to seem like you'll either OD or get addicted when using heroin to put people off of it, it's a shame really.

Being only 17 you have not experienced life enough to understand that addiction is not just dependency upon a drug but the state of mind of the user.

Often people who become addicted have past traumas that aren't dealt with and drugs offer an escape from the past as well as the reality of the present. Drugs often offer a good time (at least until you live for drugs and "need" drugs to live).

Yes, some people try drugs and find that they are not for them. Sometimes, it takes experimenting to find the drug you love. It depends on the drug how long it takes to become addicted and how often it is used. Daily use will lead to addiction quicker than weekly or monthly use.

But don't be fooled... addiction is insidious. It sneaks up on you while you're having fun. The thing is you feel "in control" of your drug use until one day you find yourself questioning "Am I addicted to..."

But given your attitude and age it seems likely that you will find this out for yourself given time.

Good luck JustTakeThat!
 
Thanks, I appreciate your acknowledgement re advice.
A few comments and a few reasons why heroin is a dangerous drug whether smoked or injected, and also a justly maligned drug worthy of the infamy attached to it (regardless of whether all accusations are accurate or not):

1 physical dependence is not an assured outcome for 'all' long term opiate recreational users, but it is an assured outcome for the vast majority (... I'll look for a reference for the % of heroin users physically dependent after 3, 6 and 12 months frequent use).

You distinguish between 'junkies' and other (non-dependent) users i.e. Yourself. It is a very common to want to dissociate from the traditional view of the homeless filthy addict begging and sleeping on the streets. It's an unhelpful generalisation which is inaccurate for most users. It's also a recognised character trait in users seeking to minimise the dangers by arguing they're special and risks don't apply to their behaviour. It's worth researching this... google addiction personality types 'the artist'.

Despite being well educated, intelligent (or believe I am) and have relevant work experience, at one point I entertained the ludicrous idea that my experience with heroin differed to anyone else's. Because I managed to juggle a habit with a good job and went to score wearing an expensive suit, when younger I was guilty of harbouring kmgythe conceit I was somehow 'special' and different to regular junkies, exempt from the normal rules of addiction.

2. True, I wasn't cautious: I was more concerned with risk of detection not safety. But, I'll suggest similar mistakes and slip ups are common and easy to make especially when judgement is impaired

3. I agree, in some respects heroin is unjustly vilified when compared with the effects of other drugs, notably alcohol which I consider is an insidious and exceptionally harmful drug that is not only socially accepted but positively promoted. Some countries are waking up to this irrational fallacy and taking small steps in harm reduction, such as making pure, unadulterated heroin available to addicts

4. But relative harms doesn't take away from the fact that heroin remains a dangerous drug. Moreover it's a dangerous drug commonly abused by the most deprived and least educated in society. Many addicts are people whose childhood, upbringing and quality of life is blighted by poor nutrition, poor social interaction, lack of stimulus in infancy and bad role models etc which combined adversely affect IQ and result in impaired judgment.

By no means do all addicts fit this description, but a significant proportion of heroin addicts do and require protection from dangers posed by drugs. If this sounds paternal and patronising, consider drug dealers purposefully prey on the disadvantaged: 'free product samples' offer a temporary respite from bleak realities and establish demand for their product.

(There is a high social cost to drug use which seems lseldom addressed on Bluelight, probably because the majority of members do not come from disadvantaged communities and deprived / homeless addicts don't have access to the internet. Discussion should not neglect the impact on communities of drug use or dismiss the how drug use is effected by individual circumstances and environmental factors that can diminish freedom of choice and reduce availability of alternative options to drug use.)

5. Its understandable why social justice aactivists oppose drugs: their natural support base within deprived ethnic communities is badly harmed by the false consciousness and apathy narcotics induce. In comparison to other drugs including alcohol the effects of heroin do not result in the most antisocial and violent behaviour; however evidence shows the need to acquire the drug and avoid withdrawal symptoms is responsible for between a third and a half of all acquisitive crime.

6. More serious is the monomania and lethargy that often accompanies opiate addiction. Chronic heroin use kills creative impulses and many heroin addicts lack motivation for anything other than the acquisition of the drug.

*i appreciate that this statement is very damning, painting addicts in an unattractive light,... and likely to be controversial and provoke challengest from BL members
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7. You never hear it said that someone is a lot more social, outgoing and interesting on heroin, but the adverse effects of heroin addiction is about more than just boorishness. The prioritisation of heroin over all else destroys relationships and causes social isolation. The void left by beating addiction is a key cause of long term relapse.

The validity of the above might be countered by pointing out the relevance and seriousness of the arguments is only significant for users who are addicted, and the risk of physical dependence and emotional addi ction is overstated.
 
By reading in this topic, my opinion could be wrong, but I always thought I had it from trusted sources that snorting Heroin is way more dangerous and leads way more easily to an OD than smoking Heroin... And I notice this when I do Heroin - when I snort a line, I do not get any initial rush, but after that it's pretty much the same and just as strong as any other ROA plus it is les easy to control (the dose, the release; Heroin can be released slower than normal when it has absorbed some moist from the air for example and it takes some time longer to get absorbed by the nasal membrane, which can cause you to re-dose too quick, but also the fact that when smoked, you feel the effects almost right away, so you can stop right away when you feel you've had enough, but with snorting once you have sniffed too much, it's in there and bound to start doing what it does...

I'm not debating these stories to be a bit over the top or anything, but having an OD 8 hours after having taken your dose is something I didn't know was possible, and looking at the half-time of Heroin the chance that this might happen is not that big as in the first two hours and maybe it could be that other factors played a role in this scenario; maybe not having had enough sleep the night before, not eaten properly, just a moment where your immune-system was a bit weaker,...

Could this be possibilities? I'm just taking educated guesses here - tho I must say, from time to time (but yet I wonder if other factors play a role when this happens) I experience over the top long effects and especially the nodding off that just keeps going on and on sometimes up to 12 hours or even hours longer and still not able to keep my eyes open - I don't know the reason, I did not yet discovered a pattern like it getting triggered by a larger dose than most of the times or that it only happens after some but always new batches, but like I said, also no link there that I've noticed yet - sometimes a bit scary, start thinking the dose was just too much...

As an Asperger I do have (as well) OCD, so I'm a control-freak, so when things deviate from what is normally the pattern something follows, I'll get anxiety and need to get that pattern right - whatever that might be; a certain place, a certain route, a certain effect, a certain time, anything that is usually the same needs to be always the same for me - regulating things this way gives me a bit of inner piece because static things are reliable and the opposite is unpredictable and that's scary to me...
 
Mananas
I agree... OD'ing 8 hours after dosing doesn't seem physically possible. I'm definitely not disputing the veracity of the account: the author had this experience. But biologically a delayed response 8 hours after snorting the drug isn't possible. So I agree there's a chance something else contributed to the episode; perhaps, as you suggest, low blood sugar or other physical issue; or perhaps, without realising, the drug was reintroduced in some way. Perhaps errant powder trapped in nasal hairs became dislodged and entered the blood stream..? Unusual, but more likely than experiencing a delayed physical effect 8 hours after snorting.
 
I am not trying to be negative, but I believe at this point we're kind of beating a dead horse, as it were. The key takeaway points are that vaporization (smoking) of any substance typically involves a greater ease of titration than say, insufflating or injecting an entire dosage at once. However, to make the claim that this ease of titration can ultimately prevent a lethal overdose is dangerous. One can still overdose using this method, but by definition, it's going to be more difficult as the user is more likely to become unconscious before the lethal level of Heroin is ingested.
 
my friend from rehab nearly died from smoking two hits of fentanyl laced heroin.... he had a HUGE tolerance too
 
I appreciate the words of advice, I can see how it is more possible to OD through just smoking it as I thought it was. You did say the time you ODed that you went for a couple of quick 'big' smokes. I think most people using H will have already heard all the OD stories and such and would be more than careful to just smoke a tiny amount and see how you're feeling after. I don't have much experience but any time I've smoked it, I just fell asleep well before I would be starting to feel like I might be sick or took too much. I agree that heroin is a lot better on the body than alcohol in the long run, but with little willpower people can make it worse. I don't try to minimize the dangers of heroin at all I would just like more people to know that not just junkies do H and not everyone always falls into dependency and addiction when using heroin or opiates. People like to seem like you'll either OD or get addicted when using heroin to put people off of it, it's a shame really.
Although it is true not everyone that tries heroin or opiates become hooked and or addicted, it is also true that the majority that do become addicted, and of those addicts tons of them OD. like someone previously mentioned people usually don't try it thinking "man I can't wait to become hooked on this do it every day and then some time down the road eventually OD" I know none of those things went through me head when I first started doing it on the weekends at parties.
Also as someone previously mentioned it does seem like you are going to some lengths to try and minimize the risks associated with heroin use? Why is that exactly?
 
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