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Opioids Shooting H while on suboxone , am I inevitably wasting my time/playing with fire ?

wraithbabe_x

wraithbabe_x

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 26, 2021
Messages
18
Hi all,
first time poster , apologies for any rules I’ve broken here.

Long-time IV smack addict , recently got on a suboxone script . No takeaways as yet so I take it without fail every day . My problem is - I still have off the scale intense heroin cravings . Or needle cravings,I guess is more accurate ? I’m not sick on the dose of subs I’m on ,but I miss every aspect of shooting up . Like,psychologically it feels impossible to do without . And I still do it in desperation on and off . I wait til evening as I take my script around 9am ,and shoot up maybe twice in an evening . But I barely feel it ,I’m assuming cuz of the naloxone in subs . It’s my first time on a detox script and I am wary of sending my tolerance even more sky-high ,or ODing while tryna get high .
my question - am I being a complete idiot ? Is it a waste of time and money shooting H while on subs? And if not - how do I feel it again ,or satisfy that craving ,other than stopping my script (which I can’t do without losing all support from my medical team and the prospect of medical detox in near future ,which I think I want .) I can’t in all honesty claim this is harm reduction, I know I’m looking for a way to continue using . I guess I just wonder how others cope with this . I stupidly was desperate to get a script and thought my problems would (mostly) be over. And I’m now remembering why I compulsively use in the first place - to block out/medicate black depression . i thought the sickness was all I was scared of ,and that’s not true at all . Smack has left a massive hole in my life ,and I don’t feel ready to rebuild anythin from the wreckage .
End of self-pity rant . Ta in advance to anyone whos got any wisdom/thoughts to share !
 
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wraithbabe_x said:
Huh, weird ! Thanks for that . Is it like, a psychosomatic thing then? Like, tricks ur brain into feelin that rush ?
Totally gonna try this and report back
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Well yeah, dunno about the rush but it'll fulfill your brains need/want for the whole needle ritual, going to get clean pins, unwrapping them, getting the cooker out, boiling the water, filtering/drawing up, the smell of the alcohol swab, seeing the blood come into the barrel, shooting, all of these are pretty much just as mentally addictive as the drug itself.
Let me know how you get on! 👍
 
jhjhsdi said:
Well yeah, dunno about the rush but it'll fulfill your brains need/want for the whole needle ritual, going to get clean pins, unwrapping them, getting the cooker out, boiling the water, filtering/drawing up, the smell of the alcohol swab, seeing the blood come into the barrel, shooting, all of these are pretty much just as mentally addictive as the drug itself.
Let me know how you get on! 👍
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Yeah,makes total sense to me in that way. I find the whole process so absorbing/calming like . Don’t get that sense of stillness from anything else except self harm .
I’ll defo give u a progress report ! Thnx dude
 
Methadone will still allow a buzz, but I would imagine their is a higher risk for overdose. When I had a bought of sobriety from hard drugs, I smoked weed and looked at memes online, or reached out to friends and family online to sort of help. But if you truly want medical detox in the near future, the best advice I can give is to seek treatment for your depression. This is fundamentally the only way you can accomplish a full recovery. You must treat the original cause attributed to using. There are even tons of platforms that offer psychological help and treatment via the internet these days if you don't like the idea of meeting with a therapist in person. I believe many are on the affordable side as well.
 
nyvar said:
Methadone will still allow a buzz, but I would imagine their is a higher risk for overdose. When I had a bought of sobriety from hard drugs, I smoked weed and looked at memes online, or reached out to friends and family online to sort of help. But if you truly want medical detox in the near future, the best advice I can give is to seek treatment for your depression. This is fundamentally the only way you can accomplish a full recovery. You must treat the original cause attributed to using. There are even tons of platforms that offer psychological help and treatment via the internet these days if you don't like the idea of meeting with a therapist in person. I believe many are on the affordable side as well.
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It's not always that easy though. I am 6months on Suboxone and only yesterday considered that my antidepressants weren't to make me happier but make me function better and thus do things which make me happier and to *choose* happiness. It isn't simply something you can just work out and I many of us can't work out our trauma because of financial reasons. But I agree with your core point.
 
Using other opioids on top of high dose buprenorphine is just pointless and waste of money. I know from experience and am currently on buprenorphine (buvidal 32mg weekly injection).

When i get intolerable cravings i shoot midazolam (dormicum or flormidal). 15mg IVed will knock you on your ass everytime, unless you got bad xanax habit.
 
I've been on sub maintenance or 6 months now and I still want to get high but since H or any other opioid won't do it I now occasionally use Ketamine, DMT, LSD, Xanax, amphetamine or GHB depending on what I'm in the mood for but if you want to feel something similar to H I definitely can recommend GHB. I know it looks like I'm not recovered but I can assure you I'm not going back to heroin as long as I have my subs and my fav party favor ;) Besides in my case the whole point of treatment is not going back H and I never planned on staying fully sober, I rather be dead. Hope you find what you need to make you happy and be well. Take care
 
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Hey @wraithbabe_x don't feel like an idiot or anything here. This is something we've all had to go through when we try to step down to maintenance from short-acting Opioid usage. It's not easy and perfection is rare in my experience. You're trying to move between two worlds here and there are so many variables at play; addiction to drugs, addiction to behaviors associated with other addictions. It's difficult. I know a lot of people who couldn't stop shooting their Buprenorphine scripts despite professing no rush, no high... nothing. They were addicted to the needle as you are.

There are so many behaviors and associated emotions involved here. Having money, successfully buying drugs, having drugs in your possession etc. Over years of usage, these things become so deeply ingrained in our personalities that it's difficult to even rembmer how they got there in the first place, no?

I had prety great veins for years and years. I rotated sites pretty well and like a lot of us, practiced the utmost safety and responsibility whenever it was possible. I never had a complication from dope. I got some Methadone takehomes and simply had to shoot them. I was going to shoot them one way or another. I did and destroyed my veins in a matter of DAYS. It was all for nothing really. There was no good reason for it even in the realm of mindless addiction and reward, there was no purpose to this.

You just have to continue to work on yourself and your self-awareness. You likely are spinning yur wheels with continued usage of dope on top of your Buprenorphine. You will just end up spending more money, more time and for less reward as you continue into your Buprenorphine treatment.

I can't tell exactly, right where your mind is at, but I can tell you definitively that there is no point in trying to use both Buprenorphine and Heroin simultaneously as one is pretty well-designed to reduce the effects of the other. It's a loser's game. Be mindful. Really think about what you're getting and what it's costing you. This is easier said than done of course and it's one of the hardest things for an addict to do.

We will help you however we can buddy. Just keep talking and we will keep listening. :)
 
LivingOnValium said:
Using other opioids on top of high dose buprenorphine is just pointless and waste of money. I know from experience and am currently on buprenorphine (buvidal 32mg weekly injection).

When i get intolerable cravings i shoot midazolam (dormicum or flormidal). 15mg IVed will knock you on your ass everytime, unless you got bad xanax habit.
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Thnx , this proved very handy actually .
lucky you being on the injection , it’s pretty rare where I am . A mate at the day centre I go to is on it and says it killed her cravings. How u finding it ?
 
VerbalTruist said:
I shot sterile water for like half a year after quitting heroin. Needle fixation is real.
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Thnx, that’s rly validating . Like,I know it’s not but started to feel this was just me bein pathetic . But it does make total sense - needles end up linked to such an intense chemical reward system in our brains or somethin .
it rly ain’t easy to give up on that. Even setting out works is so calming to me ,gives me relief from anxiety an depression every time .
 
Keif' Richards said:
Hey @wraithbabe_x don't feel like an idiot or anything here. This is something we've all had to go through when we try to step down to maintenance from short-acting Opioid usage. It's not easy and perfection is rare in my experience. You're trying to move between two worlds here and there are so many variables at play; addiction to drugs, addiction to behaviors associated with other addictions. It's difficult. I know a lot of people who couldn't stop shooting their Buprenorphine scripts despite professing no rush, no high... nothing. They were addicted to the needle as you are.

There are so many behaviors and associated emotions involved here. Having money, successfully buying drugs, having drugs in your possession etc. Over years of usage, these things become so deeply ingrained in our personalities that it's difficult to even rembmer how they got there in the first place, no?

I had prety great veins for years and years. I rotated sites pretty well and like a lot of us, practiced the utmost safety and responsibility whenever it was possible. I never had a complication from dope. I got some Methadone takehomes and simply had to shoot them. I was going to shoot them one way or another. I did and destroyed my veins in a matter of DAYS. It was all for nothing really. There was no good reason for it even in the realm of mindless addiction and reward, there was no purpose to this.

You just have to continue to work on yourself and your self-awareness. You likely are spinning yur wheels with continued usage of dope on top of your Buprenorphine. You will just end up spending more money, more time and for less reward as you continue into your Buprenorphine treatment.

I can't tell exactly, right where your mind is at, but I can tell you definitively that there is no point in trying to use both Buprenorphine and Heroin simultaneously as one is pretty well-designed to reduce the effects of the other. It's a loser's game. Be mindful. Really think about what you're getting and what it's costing you. This is easier said than done of course and it's one of the hardest things for an addict to do.

We will help you however we can buddy. Just keep talking and we will keep listening. :)
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Seriously,thanks :’) . Don’t usualy feel sappy about strangers posts on the internet,but this was rly comforting .
i know evryone is right that ultimately it’s a total waste of money etc .but what u said above is like,the crux of my issue - the tryna move between two worlds thing . I don’t know who I am without smack, without sex work and hangin out with dealers and that whole life that’s dominated by chasing a hit . That sounds pathetic but ,I think people here will understand what I mean . This shit takes you over . And then your faced with havin to basically reconstruct not only your life but your mind, when your alredy feeling at your lowest . It just feels rly fkn hard. And pointless,sometimes .
all I’ve got to hang onto is I know I want a kid one day. And my time will run out if I keep living like this .
thanks for the excellent advise and for listning . It rly helps .
 
wraithbabe_x said:
Ha. Concise but true. Thnx mate, u ain’t wrong .
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First you compliment me on my long, rambling, emotional speech and then you turn and compliment @0.o_LaCuNa_o.0 for such brevity?! You can't have us both @wraithbabe_x I've had enough of this back and forth between us. It's either me or him :cry: :p :)

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy to hear that, so thanks! You're not alone. People in general get involved in such stupid shit on a day to day basis. Think of how many lives have been utterly ruined by 30-45 seconds of sexual intercourse... ponder that one for the history books. As drug addicts, I believe we make easy targets for "polite" society. Some people love to look down on others. It just makes them feel good. This too, however, is something we have all been guilty of throughout the course of our lives. It's about knowing our flaws and trying to change them.

As I have been told at length by my sponsor, "It's progress, not perfection". I love all addicts who are willing to try to be better people. This can be any small attempt at sending positivity into the universe. You have something in your heart that is driving you to be better. Right now, it's a selfish game though. You have to take literally everything you've got @wraithbabe_x and re-invest it into yourself, because you frankly don't have enough to give to anyone else. This doesn't mean "fuck humanity". You can still treat people with respect, but you've gotta get better to be truly of use and of purpose to those important to you. If you don't have anyone important to you, think about how sweet it will be when you get that back.

You're moving between those two worlds, yes, but you've gotta start trying to decide how to pick a world and stick with it. You seem to be intelligent, well-spoken and self-aware, so you could do some really great things in this world. Being on maintenance and continuing to use drugs is bullshit. It just further wrecks the self-esteem of the user, accomplishes hardly anything positive... it's that two worlds thing. You've got some inertia in your life, as you've mentioned, pulling you back and forth, but you can do it. I know plenty of hookers from NA who are now beautiful ladies-of-the-court with little kiddoes, jobs... maybe an Accura SUV somewhere down the road?

We're here for emotinal and physical support. Hit any one of us up and we will be happy to chit chat.
 
wraithbabe_x said:
Thnx, that’s rly validating . Like,I know it’s not but started to feel this was just me bein pathetic . But it does make total sense - needles end up linked to such an intense chemical reward system in our brains or somethin .
it rly ain’t easy to give up on that. Even setting out works is so calming to me ,gives me relief from anxiety an depression every time .
Click to expand...
For sure. For me, it was having a stash spot that no one knew about and then getting stuff from it without anyone knowing. So I'd appear with enough money to go grocery shopping for a month. I never carry cash and my wife started to get a little sus about it when I would do it every month. Then I told her about it and she asked what else was in the stash box. I showed her and then she was cool with me squirreling it back to wherever it lives. (Not in the house.)
 
wraithbabe_x said:
Thnx , this proved very handy actually .
lucky you being on the injection , it’s pretty rare where I am . A mate at the day centre I go to is on it and says it killed her cravings. How u finding it ?
Click to expand...
Oh it's brilliant. Finland was actually the first country to start using it 2 years ago (buvidal weekly and buvidal monthly, not sublocade). They startted me on suboxone to assess what my buvidal (injection) dose would be. I knew they use a table that there's a cut off between 16mg and 18mg per day. If you use 16mg/day or less they put you on 24mg/week. If you use 18mg/day or more you get the 32mg/week injection. Actually with daily dosing (no matter the dose) i start to experience comedown at about 7 pm and feel nauseus, unmotivated, mentally and physically weak for the rest of the evening (A shitty feeling you get hours and hours before withdrawals). I kept telling them that until they upped my 'xone to 18mg/day. Then i just told them now i'm happy with my dose and ready to switch.

The patient leaflet let's you know it takes about 4 full weeks for the "injection saturation" to be reached before you're reaping the full benfits of the injection. Quite not true IMO. 1st Weak was horrible. I felt unstable but wasn't withdrawing till day 3/4. They gave me a 8mg booster shot on the 5th day that did fuck all. 2nd week was unpleasant. I didn't withdrawl but was close to it on wednesday. Got a booster shot on thursday and somehow made it till the next monday. Week 3 wasn't too bad. I felt ok til day 5 (of that week) and went to the clinic for a 8mg booster shot. They kind of were amused that i still needed it at that point but gave it to me anyway (It's still relatively new and they are gathering all kind of data of product and how it works depending on the patient so the rules aren't (at least yeat) written in stone. It helped me pass the next two days (thursday & fri-) and i felt a bit awful on the weekend. Week 4 I felt good till friday. Then i was a bit depressed oveer the weekend but nothing major. Week 5 I felt really good untill i noticed a clear crash on sunday, which sucked. Week 6 I felt really good the whole week till it became sunday which was a bit of meh but nothing major. Week 7 was wonderfull, I felt brilliant, energetic and was on a good mood for the whole week. I was feeling as stable as i was on the rest of the week when it was sunday. Since that it has been really good. No cravings at all.

For the sake of thruth i must tell you not everyone likes it though and some have switched back to the xone. Imo they're mostly the ones who sell half of their carry aways and shoot the other half. Im not down with that shitty game played by those retards so i would never give it away. And tlak about only having to go to the clinic only once per week. Not having to gight over carry homes and that bullshit. If i don't get caught doing something stupid at some point (i believe 6-8 monts) i have the change to switch on the once a month injection. That's a fucking lifesaver. You don't stand in a que with addicts waiting to be dosed. You get private meetings with a nurse personally assinged to you.

On mondays when i receive my jab it takes 1,5h for the tip of my nose to start to feel a bit itchy. I strat to feel really motivated and relaxed at the same time with a little bith of euphoria in the mix. Then the come up wil just get stronger from there (hour by hour) and it keeps creping on you till the night. Iusually pop a couple of mg Xanax at this point since i'm almost nodding already and they won't be detected at my urine analysis on the next monday (if they even decide to test me, which they very rearely do). On Tuesday mornings when i wake up i still feel a little noddy but it soon phases out and i feel stable and solid for the rest of the week. Until it's the next moday again and i gots tha chill.
 
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definitely a waste of money time and if you are like me there is the guilt afterwards all for a 20min at most high

side note I find it interesting how so many people are just (lacking a world for it) enjoying? shooting something (ie sterile water)
my friend used to shoot my lithium and I couldn’t understand it
now I see he wasn’t alone

A lot using is ritualistic I’ve noticed since switching these past couple days from opiods to kratom even though I have no withdrawals I will get a serious craving when I do certain things that are part of my lead in to the ritual behavior to the point where I get mean and pissy
it’s kinda fucked up

habit
so many things are habit
it’s really hard to break

reality just sucks on its own
I don’t know how the rest of the world does this shit
 
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