My ex asked me a similar thing right after I met her and I am glad I refused.
Was your ex a rape victim? I think sometimes with bdsm people want to reexperience trauma with people they trust to transmute the pain.
Still, I told her I didn't think it was healthy.
Long reply, but explains your comment.
People who do this (victims of CSA, rape as adults) are not doing it as a kink, *most* of the time. I'd say 99% of the time.
I had a recent period of fucked upness in my life, where I blanked out my Grindr profile (no photos, meaning only identifying thing about me is me being trans, so I'm already objectified), then write something *very* explicit (not a rape kink, but something I had never done and would never ordinary consent to).
The guy who came over I didn't vet him like I normally would. Basically, I threw all my normal safeguards out the window - no fetishists, meeting up with people only my age etc) and it was a bad time. I played it off initially because I felt super fucked up while it happened because I did ask him to stop, and slow down, and he didn't listen.
So because of my severe trauma history several things happened. One, I've done enough sex work to know if I don't pretend to have a good time I'm gonna get a punch in the face, so how am I to know this wouldn't be different considering how little care he took (this was anal, so I honestly should have gone to the hospital after but I've never been able to report a rape previously so I figured why then?), Two, I just freeze up and dissociate hoping it ends faster. Three, I have an *extraordinarily* unhealthy worldview of myself which is that thanks to men just treating me like shit since my dear old dad (no, not trans due to CSA I'll touch on that shortly), I figured I needed to at least make sure he had a good time. And here's the fucked bit. Four, even though I desperately wanted it to end, was dissociating, having flashbacks - there was a super fucked up aspect of me that 'enjoyed' it, because in my mind I was punishing the person responsible for what my dad did to me as a kid. That's me. The thing is 'enjoy' is not the right word. I felt like justice had finally been done. I wasn't feeling any arousal, nor any physical pleasure. I was scared, so much so that my essential tremor which normally affects just my hands once he was done my entire body was shaking so violently I couldn't walk properly.
I actually confronted him, two weeks later when he messaged me again. He told me he was deaf in one ear. I was like 'BRO YOU'VE GOT TWO EARS' like I wasn't speaking into your deaf ear goddamn' and basically yeah said cause I went along with it so willingly 'despite how even just on the surface you cannot have anal sex after doing no preparation unless the person with a dick has a tiny dick, which wasn't the case) so like it really was self evidence. But he basically called me a liar, said I enjoyed it, and that I was a willing participant.
My GP when I called him as an emergency appointment the day after the guy said that to me asked why I even messaged him. I told him I guess I just wanted an apology, cause it would feel like my dad finally apologising. Never gonna happen. Then I said I finally was starting to understand that even though I'm smart enough to have a law degree, plus two other bachelor's, and to do that with a lot of disabilities, well being autistic and my fucking trauma makes me real vulnerable, and I finally admitted to being a vulnerable person (I work as a worker for other autistic people who are legally vulnerable people so I was like nah I can't be lol) and my GP was like 'yeah, uh you're actually my most vulnerable patient, and Grindr sounds like it's full of predators waiting to abuse vulnerable people'
So then after that for some bizarre reason I got into what was thankfully mostly mild BDSM. Some less mild stuff. Mostly because I feel like I deserve to be treated like shit. Notably I have been very adamant on being vanilla for my... Entire fucking life minus a 2 month period this year after I hallucinated my childhood trauma for 48 hours after being given ketamine lol. And in 2018 when my cPTSD was really bad living in an abusive situation. Not a kink though. It's sort of what I would term an anti-kink interestingly. As is the previous example.
I had to do a fuck load of extra therapy and see my GP who supports my mental health heavily 2 times a week for check ins, plus 2 more times for self harm injury care.
Then I tried to have a hook up with someone I actually knew, who I thought was safe and he raped me so that made me try to kill myself cause I was like damn could this last two months get any worse?
Turns out yes. I forgot that on occasion, when I want to dial the self harm up to 11, I find older gay men who could feasibly be my father (I'm 28, so 40 is my hard limit normally), who want to be called 'daddy' and like again - not a kink - I actually get super intense therapy for this because it's a form of self harm/because they are men who *identify* as *gay* and are therefore gendering me as *male* I am also then being referred to as a 'good *boy*' which my brain literally leaks out one single fucking dopamine/Seratonin or whatever you want to call it then I want to grab a gun and paint the walls because I literally am having PTSD flashbacks the rest of the time.
Basically as you said, my version of re-enacting my original/most commonly experienced trauma except I am being viewed as good rather than bad finally, plus I'm being gender correctly.
It is *marginally* less traumatic when the person I do it with is closer to my age/my age. I still wouldn't say I enjoy it. But I wouldn't blast my brain matter out anywhere.
The guy who raped me the second time, he actually forced me to do his BDSM shit (turns out I am like, I dunno just don't force people to do your kink it's wrong. Ask. And if it's a no, respect that). He is also a 'daddy' and because he fetishised me and ignored what I requested (anal only) and used super gendered words for my body I was like 'oh thank fuck you didn't make me call you daddy good lord that would be a death sentence'
So yeah like, trauma does some fucked things to your brain.
Honestly my actual only kink, is being able to experience (which I think I am now, I seem to have picked up an unofficial 'we aren't using labels' boyfriend from the Philippines who is here studying nursing. He's much more fem than I ever considered myself attracted to but 1. He is super respectful and polite, and doesn't treat me like shit. We did BDSM one time at my suggestion, and he cleaned up everything like a true gentleman. I won't tell you all what everything was but compare this to the guy who came into my house and legit pulled his dick out and demanded I suck it and called me a 'filthy whore slut' and I was like 'hmm actually abort abort I don't like this fuck shit oh no the problem* this guy is very caring. And I checked with my therapist by mentioning how he stays around for hours cuddling after, and on NYE actually he asked to come round and I payed for his uber since I was drunk, and we cuddled all night. I literally pay him to get ubers to and from mine, and he sticks around for ages, and we chat about lots of stuff. He is the ONLY guy I drive to pick up, take home, drop off, then I go home. He never brought up BDSM again. And he did some other boundaries stuff which was great.
*The problem. Ah yes. So my mental health team, GP, and behaviour support practitioner have all seperately and together come to the conclusion that when I get triggered badly (like I was in the first example where I removed my photos) that is me self harming and switching from burning/cutting/IV use etc to sexual self harm. The reality is, I am not actually able to consent, as I am aiming (for the purpose of self punishment) to have something done to me I cannot consent to. That being said, I said no the first time and told him to stop, it's just I put myself in a situation where that was likely to happen. But I did stand up for myself which is more than Ive ever done in the same scenario in the past. In the past I just got so fucked up on drugs (but passably sober) I couldn't consent and did it that way. The next time I asked him to stop maybe a dozen times before I relented and just wanted it over. The times I do the BDSM stuff honestly even if there was a safe word I agreed to use with the sleezy fucked up asshole Grindr douchebags who basically look for people like me to fuck up more instead of being like 'bruh get more therapy' I wouldn't be able to say it - the point is punishing myself. I'm not meant to enjoy it. Not really. So yeah. I am 28 years old and unable to consent due to trauma. I can sometimes. And I understand what consent for others is. I ask too much. Annoying amounts.
But no. My only real ACTUAL kink is being loved properly and not in a fucked up gross way I'm used to my whole life. I mean properly, with boundaries, safety, comfort, mutual respect, having a best friend, and enjoying just my time with the person, not necessarily sex.
After the life I've had, that is a far more appealing kink than anything. When you've lived kinks out due to trauma they just become... Trauma. Hence why I need a $30,000 behaviour support therapy fund amount to help with this, which is a lot of funding from the government. Behaviour support funding is only given out to people who really fucking need it.
I do think that telling people this will make them think I'm super fucked up and gross and idk it's just been a whole mess I tried to kill myself twice in 3 months this year. I'll probably do what Verbal Truist did and might delete it if I get anxious about it but like honestly other victims of CSA have told me this shit isn't unusual, and like my GP said (when I told him the stuff and was crying begging him not to hate me and thing I was disgusting cause I had to write it down on paper cause I couldn't even talk bout it) 'you were traumatised at a very young age so you're kinda developmentally a bit fucked eli' and I was like 'ooo shit that makes sense'
@VerbalTruist I didn't want to quote your post again, but I do not think you are a monster. Not as a victim, at all. I just wanted to say that. I don't think all of the men who have (quote unquote) treated me like shit have been so. One guy actually was amazingly gentle to the extent I was sorta like (with the BDSM thing) 'oh maybe I do like this kink?' because it was barely BDSM and he went to grab his keys and I said bye and he's like 'oh my god you think I was just gonna walk out without saying goodbye' and gave me a hug. Not a romantic one, but a friendly one. And I appreciate that cause I came expecting a horrible time and I left experiencing something that I didn't expect.
Sure, there are some men (particularly on Grindr) who have a penchant and take enjoyment from for finding vulnerable young gay guys like me who have very serious issues. But from what you said your situation was not with a large age gap, you were exploring, you did what you were asked. And you were entirely overwhelmed with it. And didn't really want it. They guys I meet up with do - they're actively looking for someone to sub and will sometimes as to be very violent. There's a huge difference. BDSM isn't really a NSA type thing.
Frankly, I'm shocked you were not offered a safe word. Just as she should have been permitted to nix it at any moment, so too should you have been.
Honestly, what you described actually sounds more like you weren't really consenting, from my frame of mind. You had Viagra as a back up - that seems forced to me. And not any wonder why you needed to go to a therapist.
For her to behave as though it's no big deal? Honestly, uncomfortable with this. I really am. I don't know if anyone has sort of stated things like this to you but I would urge you to consider how much agency you actually had in that scenario.
I actually feel horrible for you going through that.
what would make it even hotter imo is if we could do that while on a vacation WITHOUT my kids, lol.
