SECONDARY WITHDRAWAL...opiods..?

[Tongue]

well KAPHENN, im sure that taking a wak OPIOD when you are withdrawing from METADONE would make it easier, BUT u say you are at the point where you dont suffer frm withdrawals, but yet you say you take the occasional OPIOD to get rid of the "zombie" feeling...thatzombie feeling IS secondary opiod withdrawal....im going thru it right now(methadone) and although i thought about taking weak opios to help me function remotely normal, all it would do i PROLONG the nasty depression and mindfuck that comes wwith stopping opiods..

hmm, when i take opiods, i get MOTIVATED and very SOCIAl....strange how everyone responds didfferently to the same drugs..

what interests me is if one had a bad PIOD habit, and they stopped, but started taking methemphetamine, or snorting coke, or whataver, if this would kill the majority of the withdrawals from the opiod...wht i basically mean is when ya start detoxing from opiods, if you went on a speed/cocaine binge for about 5-6 days, if by the the 7th day, you would still feel shitty???

 

[swybs]

yes and no...the trouble reoccurs at day 9 and 12, etc. I hope that answer makes sense, I will elaborate tomorrow...too drunk to see screne....

swybs

 

[synchrojet]

TONGUE --

That sounds pretty bad. I'm not into dicksizing when it comes to withdrawals, as I know that my opioid withdrawals have never been too severe. The worst were from two months of oxy at roughly 80mg/day, and I found a remedy for them that has worked twice, which I posted.

That being said, I must admit that the benzo withdrawals amost scared me into the hospital, which would have translated to some very serious legal problems for me. I don't tend to panic (I have schizophrenia and can handle erratic thinking patterns/thoughts in general), but because benzos are not effective for me I had to take a lot to get any effect at all. True, I was not anywhere near negrogesic's levels, but even 60-80-mg valium daily can be a terrible habit to break. I respect anyone who has the courage to quit the type of methadone use you outlined. Gauging from the withdrawals from the mild oxy use, I know it must have been nearly unbearable. During my withdrawal, I had two seizures, one of which was very severe. It was primarily this aspect that caused so much additional fear. It kept going through my head that I was going to die from the withdrawal process, and to learn that it is indeed a possibility caused even more panic. By the time I learned about it form the doctor I had already gotten by the worst part, but if I had it to do again (I never will, I assure you) I would go to the ER.

 

[high on stemz-nseeds]

For me it was a month after physical withdrawal stopped, so like 40 days after quitting cold turkey methadone/oxy (50mg/100mg) daily for 9 months or so.

 

[kapheen']

Early on in the beginning stage of my addiction I felt motivated and energetic, talkative or whatever. But after awhile, I would just take my dose and hate myself for ever getting myself into this opiate mess.

I'm not expecting to eliminate the secondary with-drawl effects. I'm hoping to make it more bearable.

 

[Holdan Caulfield]

I've kicked opiates numerous times. After getting on methadone I developed a problem with Ativan(they didn't test for it at the clinic, unless they had reason to believe you were doing it). I was using on average 10-12 2mg pills every morning with my dose of methadone( I worked my way up to this point). Both benzo and opiate withdrawal are both equally terrible in their own ways. Although, benzo w/d can be deadly, I have never wanted to use them again after quitting, unlike opiates.
I have experienced both benzo and methadone withdrawal together, and it was the worst experience of my life. I would never wish that on anyone.

 

[GasFace]

I know it all depends on the individual, but what is considered a high dose of benzo's? I have heard some folks mention 50-70mgs of benzo's a day - that seems really high to me and it is no wonder that there is w/d associated with this dose. I have been taking Klonopins off and on for about 5 years for anxiety and to sleep better - when I say off and on, I mean during the peak of my opiate addiction that I would not need to take Klonopins and would thus go without a dose for sometimes up to a week or two.

Now that I am off the opiates and on bupe I have gone back to the Klonopins, but only take them an 1 or 2 hrs before bed. I am prescribed 1.5mgs/day, which is nothing compared to others, but I wonder what the w/d's would be that are associated with this amount, if any at all. If I were continue using the Klonopins for let's say a year every day would I experience w/d's, and if so, would they be severe?

I really had no idea that benzo w/d can be so severe until I have read a few recent posts. After experiencing opiate w/d it kinda scares me a bit to think these benzo w/d's are something that I may need to go through someday...

 

[high on stemz-nseeds]

maybe life was always dull and boring, lacking in energy, especially after coming off a drug that made life feel a lot better...

maybe "secondary withdrawal" is just being sober again, with a slightly chemically altered brain that may or may not return to normal.

 

[Tongue]

ive thought asbout that high-on-stems, but everone around me easily is able to tell something isnt right with me..before drugs, sure i got bored quickly, but i was actually able to experience PLEASURE, whereas during secondary withdrawal, im basically a zombie, unable to experience any type of actual CALM/PLEASURE/SATISFACTION/PEACE in oneself..

thats the way i describe the opiod wtdrawal to people who hve never expeieced i...one sentence>>>total inability to experience any peace/calm/satisfaction/happiness/relaxation....now, if there are truly people who have experienced this fr an entire 19 months, FFFUUGGG, i woulda put bullet in my head by then...well, i woulda went back to the dope....lol

 

[40oz]

KICKING JUNK 101,

i was a heroin junky for 10 years. i've been clean now for 5 years. when i quite i was upto 4 g's a day.

if you've made the decision to quite. you must get yourself a game plan and you have to stick to it.

#1 you need to move to a different city. i don't really know anybody who managed to stay of junk for long if they didn't leave. if you have family or friends who are willing to be your support group and who don't use ANY drugs. then get your shit together and get the fuck out. and don't tell anybody where your going.

#2 don't take any drugs whats so ever. especially drugs engineered to suppress your withdrawls (methadone). thrust me its all bullshit you need to go through it. when the pain gets to be unbearable then jump into the shower and sit down. THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD. when i was kicking i would be sick for 3-4 weeks. the only time i slept was when i passed out cold from exaustion.

#3 i know your not going to want to eat. but you have to force youself to eat at least once a day. if you don't your looking at trouble and a prolonged withdrawl period. stick with fruits and vegetables. don't try and be a hero at IHOP.

#4 DON'T EVER THINK YOUR CURED. THERE IS NO CURE. Man, every day i wake up and i say "i will not get high today". Stay vigilant....you are the only one who could fuck it up.

#5 do not contact any of your old party crew. no matter who there are and no matter how much you miss them. misery love's company and they'll drag your back if you let them.

#6 once your feeling better then its time to get busy and stay that way. get a job, go to school, play sports. and you should do them in that order. you need to work 40 hours a week. you be suprised what working full time will do for you. once you adjusted to working say 3 weeks or so. basicly once you start getting paid. you should start taking some kind of class or start playing sports. i killed two birds with one stone and starting training in Jiu-Jitsu. i didn't think it would be possible but i'm about 6 month away from testing for my black belt.

#7 once you given youself at least 6 month to a year of standing on your own to feet. then its time to get a girl/boy friend. do not make the mistake of starting a relationship to soon. i repeat "once you given youself at least 6 month to a year of standing on your own to feet".

good luck and stay true to yourself.....

 

[swybs]

true all of the above, truth.

swybs

 

[vicodelicious]

40oz,

that was written so well.

It's all true kids...

 

[twgburst]

Get the fuck out of here with your 12 step BS. Not everyone is the same, and any program or idea that lumps all addicts into a big pile and generalizes isn't giving people the benefit of the doubt. First off opiate addiction is totally different than cocaine, weed, or any other non physically addictive substance, and all the physically addictive substances are different as well. The reason why people don't get clean is cause they don't want to. Their is a reason why so many people go back, and it is more than craving a substance, its craving the opiate high. If your addiction is so bad that you fuck people over, even your friends than you should probally find anyway possible to get clean, shit NA might be a cult, but its better to be a drone than a thieving drug addict. If drugs were legal though, I think it would be better off for all these people. The closest thing is methadone, and its a good thing if you wanna do it til you die, otherwise I'd run til bupe gets cheaper.

 

[HeadyNuggets]

Good advice 40oz. Ultimately deciding to quit may take uprooting your whole life and starting over elsewhere. This is the only method that worked for any good legth of time for me as well.

The problem is when your at work one day and your new co-worker is railing oxy's. Your having a bad day, watching your co-worker get high, and of course that little voice in your head says "you can do a little, its ok" and then, well you know the rest...

My point is, even if you eliminate all sources of opiates from your life, you must be constantly vigilante against the dark lady, she will find you.

 

[swybs]

twgburst, it may be true that programs have agendas, but if it works for some, so be it (remember, some people are extremists, and addicts tend to be that type of personality). Anyway, hopefully, you don't need to do all of those for the rest of ones' life. Anyway, whatever helps someone is good advice, in my opinion.

Swybs

 

[GasFace]

The closest thing is methadone, and its a good thing if you wanna do it til you die, otherwise I'd run til bupe gets cheaper.

Not sure I understand your comment about bupe. The price of bupe is nothing compared to the amount of money that you end up blowing on dope, oxy, or any opiate for that matter. Plus, my insurance covers most of it. I spend no more than $100 a month on bupe and dr.'s visits together, whereas I would spend upwards of 2k/month on oxy.

 

[swybs]

^^^ and then some--oxy, I argue, for those with high tolerances, can be nearly--if not more--expensive than dope (even providing you weren't buying nick and dime bags of dope)...goddamned oxy. goddamned purdue. ah, what am I saying, goddamned me! but damn, purdue, why you got to go and make dem pills so pretty...

and btw, if you are paying too much for bupe, shop around. The doctors and their prescribing practices vary greatly (without getting into too much detail).

swybs

 

[junksick]

when the pain gets to be unbearable then jump into the shower and sit down. THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD

Whoah, I thought I was the only one. Why is this so? I've only gone through serious withdrawals once (from seed tea and benadryl use, believe it or not) and a super hot shower while I lay back and let the water hit my stomach was the only thing that would take away the pain.

 

[hazejunk]

^^because the hot water relaxes you mussels....
for my the showers where the onely way to relax for about 20 min.....

 

[40oz]

Get the fuck out of here with your 12 step BS. Not everyone is the same, and any program or idea that lumps all addicts into a big pile and generalizes isn't giving people the benefit of the doubt. First off opiate addiction is totally different than cocaine, weed, or any other non physically addictive substance, and all the physically addictive substances are different as well. The reason why people don't get clean is cause they don't want to. Their is a reason why so many people go back, and it is more than craving a substance, its craving the opiate high. If your addiction is so bad that you fuck people over, even your friends than you should probally find anyway possible to get clean, shit NA might be a cult, but its better to be a drone than a thieving drug addict. If drugs were legal though, I think it would be better off for all these people. The closest thing is methadone, and its a good thing if you wanna do it til you die, otherwise I'd run til bupe gets cheaper.

LISTEN MAN,

its not about a 12 step religion kinda shit. its just a smart way of building confidence and giving yourself time. this method took me years to perfect. it works and and should work with most junkies out there. i realise that every body is different and everybody's situation differs. but you gotta start somewhere so you may as well start with something that has a proven track record.

please don't take this as a a chance to start an argument. not only was i an 10 year H junky i also was a 20 year drug addict. i started using drugs when i was 8 years old. now that doesn't make me some kind of hero. i really wish i never started in the first place. i've wasted alot of time in and out of prison. i even spent 2 years in a coma. and when it comes down to it man all you have is 80 years or so to live your life. don't live it like i did.

if any of you need somebody to talk to just message me and i'll be there for you. this may sound kind of corny but i've been there and i'm here to help. shit i may as well do something with this knowledge.

fight brothers and sisters..........FIGHT