Misc Scolopomine is scolopomine...EXCEPT WHEN ITS SCOPOLAMINE

[Wiserthanearlier]

Why does vice documentaries highlight the dangers of borrachero, a scolopamine containing plant used to rob victims of their will in Columbia, when these scolapomine trees and plants grow everywhere?

Is there some mystic and local lore or is it real?
Has Colombians found ways to produce the extract differing to anyone else in other countries?

Something doesnt make sense....

In case links arent allowed to be posted, search youtube for worlds scariest drug (documentary exclusive)

Scolopamine is known worldwide and is rightly considered a dangerous drug and generally not one for recreation.
But this highlight its significant use to disarm victims, but is localised to Columbia....

Or said differently, why are the intended effects on victims according to vice different than recreational uses?
Does all recreational use lead to suggestability??

Several questions, sorry i couldve presented them more clearly but hopefully the point is asked.

Thanks

 

[Steady Scootin]

Does it really have any recreational uses? And I could be totally wrong here, but the whole making people an utterly pliable zombie always seemed exaggerated to make for a good story to me.

 

[busted.produk]

Scopolomine(skuh-pol-uh-meen).

I dont know about recreational value(or much about it at all) but i do know its used pharmaceutically in some parts of the world for motion sickness.

 

[Dresden]

Scopolamine is for witches, black witches.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

'Borrachero' isn't a specific plant, btw. Its a generic name around the region of the amazon basin, and has a general connotation of 'intoxicant', usually referring to tropane-containing delirient type plants, although not always. And often a connotation of use in sorcery or shamanic indigenous practices.

(scopolamine is a tropane alkaloid, these being richly present within the Solanaceous plants (nightshade family, such as brugmansias, daturas, henbanes, and chalice vine etc. The whole family is replete with species full of such antimuscarinic tropanes as atropine, hyoscyamine, hyoscine (hyoscine being a synonym for scopolamine)

 

[Wiserthanearlier]

Thanks.

Few points to clarify.
Im not promoting recreational use. I agree it has none, however people seem to sometimes try it despite that. This is why i mentioned recreational use.
Secondly, thanks limpet chicken. I also am aware it isnt a specific variety.

So my questions remain, is the use highlighted via Vice real or local lore only? It is unlike vice to spread incorrect infomation.
It has no similiar use anywhere else in the world, correct?

 

[Scrofula]

Borrachero? Like borracho, meaning drunk?

And you mean scopolamine, aka hyoscine, right? Not scolopomine?

VICE was a titty magazine before they sent some guy to photograph central American narco-corpses or something. They aren't exactly National Geographic.

Scopolamine is just a motion sickness drug that's also a strong anti-cholinergic. Too much anti-cholinergic drug will make you trip balls in a bad way. Like, any balls nearby will have human faces and they'll have spindly spider legs and move around with the bushes and have conversations with you.

Anti-cholinergics also have strong effects on memory, as in wiping it out, so not only is the trip a bad one, you can't hardly remember most of it. It also decreases saliva and sweating, so there's a risk of overheating.

These things aren't recreational, speaking from multi-gram experience with diphenhydramine, and straight-up dangerous. You will spend most of the trip in a blackout, and will not understand why the cars on the freeway are ignoring your friendly overtures as you step into the lanes.

I don't mean that like some happy LSD trip where you get an idea that cars are a lot like people, yet you retain the insight to know you are on LSD and cars are still machines that will kill you. You will see the grill of a car form a realistic human face that says something rude to you. You will want to ask why it would say such a thing.

And with anticholinergics none of the "visuals" are pretty or compelling, they are more like sinister or neutral distortions, lots of waviness and shuffling around, and hyper-realistic. Like, enough to be terrifying.

 

[Wiserthanearlier]

Ok, please update title to correct spelling, i have adjusted it in my post.

I understand and agree with all in your post.
Im still not clear.
Is the claim by vice real? At all?
This plant hasnt been used in this manner anywhere other than apparently Columbia.

Yes, i know people can and do get unwittingly drugged, in many places.
Im asking how accurate the claims in documentary are? And if legitimate why only columbia (in this manner!)

Im very awareof this plants effects and history, just validating the doco

 

[bobby1978]

I saw that doc a couple of years back, and it seemed odd to me. Vice is a pretty poor source of information at this point, if it was ever any good, insofar as I can tell. The "documentary" seemed to feature a lot of interviews with people that sounded downright scripted to me. A lot of dramatic speeches and unnatural pauses are part of what I remember.

And not for nothing, but let's say your Mr. big bad Colombian criminal (or any criminal, for that matter). Why are you fvcking around with this powder, trying to blow it in people's faces and shit like that? It's kind of hilarious. Ever hear of a gun? No? Well, you have knives in your kitchen, maybe?

I don't know, the whole thing seemed really wonky to me.

 

[d1nach]

Scopolamine is basically benadyrl (minus the antihistamine), atropine, or benztropine.

Demonizing and fear mongering a drug because high doses cause horrible even fatal effects is stupid. We mine as well ban and vilify potassium and have some documentary on how its used to kill people by lethal injection. Try buying potassium as a sodium replacement for cooking noo are you mad? I saw this documentary potassium kills.

These are all anticholinergic drugs which are very unpleasant if you overdose.

I take benztropine for tremor and side effects from antipsychotics. It greatly improved my quality of life when i was forced on high doses at involentary inpatient.


Scopolamine, atropine, benztropine, diphenhydramine have real uses some of which

Low heart rate
Emergency medicine
EPS

Im too lazy to look up the rest

Noone wants anticholinergics till their eyes are stuck rolled back in their head.

 

[Scrofula]

OP, btw, none of us have seen or are about to see this Vice "documentary". Think I sat through maybe two and gave up on them. Definite yellow journalism.

Scopolamine is one of the ingredients, like tetrodotoxin, in alleged Haitian "zombie powder". That's in a whole different, more famous, book/documentary/exploitation film. I think the name is like Serpent and the Rainbow or something. Genuine anthropologist, dubious research.

So I don't know what Vice was about, there are lots of things you can use to commit felony sexual assault and rape. And remember that the number one date-rape drug, by all the margins, is alcohol. You don't need to roofie a person's drink when all they need is three stiff drinks. It's still sex-assault or rape when it's booze.

 

[Steady Scootin]

Vice is pretty shit, generally. I've enjoyed some of Hamilton's Pharmacopoeia, and perhaps something from a slumming Louis Theroux (sp?), but that's about it. Their site is overflowing with hyperbole and often scantily researched clickbait style articles.

 

[Wiserthanearlier]

Ok well thanks for some answers.

Yes, Hamilton's producing seemingly more authentic documentaries.
Im aware vice does produce some crappy docos, but i was asking if someone can credibly discredit the info in the specific doco or corroborate the info.

I wasnt asking for info around the active chemical in question nor the general accuracy of the presenters.

I was looking for factual info to confirm or completely discredit the claims.
Appreciate the subjective views, but please factual...

 

[Wiserthanearlier]

To add to my post, i dont think there is any factual basis, nor do i think such a plant is worth touching, im just asking for validation of Vices claims in this doco.
Thanks

 

[Wiserthanearlier]

Lastly, moderators please adjust title to be spelt correctly, i updated my posts.

Thank you

 

[Scrofula]

I did correct your title, before you asked. The correct spelling is there.

What we've been trying to tell you, is that we'd have to watch the doc to answer your question. Are you involved in the production maybe? I don't know, but the forum's not for shilling for Vice or movies that you like, and its not about doing anthropological research.

We answered the questions involving pharmacology, and explained that it's not fun.

Harm has been reduced.

CLosed.