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Schizophrenia and weed.

Naa too risky. For me its better to not smoke at all nowadays. I love smoking but I dont love the psychosis thats there like 80% of times.
 
X11400 said:
All of a sudden Humans aren’t animals?
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This was flawed, yeah. I meant that they probably don't get what they are put into, and very probably will have been psychic train wrecks from being kept in small lab boxes before, or well if they weren't then it's an even worse example ...

Still wondering about the model psychosis thing. In the studies apparently they find the same changes in animals with chronic, but not so much with acute, dosing of PCP or in some cases stimulants - the latter probably in excess dosing but as dissociatives become anesthetics when used higher than recreational, it can't be overdosage or they will be more a model for things like the (disputed) Olney's lesions than anything near schizophrenia.

I know that it's thin ice I am speculating on since I have met quite some people in acute psychosis, some of them responded to antipsychotics, other didn't but it always took time, only light cases get 'shutdown' acutely by antipsychotics. Many will continue to especially hear voices and feel presence (paranoid psychosis) or strange seeming beliefs etc (delusional psychosis) etc. yet do I have to say that only part of what doctors/nurses/people tend to see as delusions are acute misperceptions of reality. Experiences like powerful psychedelis can and does change personality in a way that is unimaginable by people who aren't into this topic yet there is a huge difference by thinking e.g. the reality might be an illusion or there could have been pre-astronautic aliens, that these things are that way or that they have been abducted by aliens and there is a chip in their head docs willingly hide from the MRI. That their friends are spying on them (well, that one is often enough real but it's probably not normal to realize and especially to over-focus on this). It's hard to describe but there are differencies.

Yeah, the animals will be high as hell. But also scared as hell, imagine to live in a lab rat box and getting psychotic dosages of drugs. I wanted to write strange point is that the dissos are actually anxiolytic to the point where the very concept of anxiety doesn't make enough sense anymore to feel it- curiously enough they are very selective to blocking negative emotions. I under-estimated this so fucking much countless times when I was so happy that I thought "why continue using drugs and hurting my health"... well, until the after-effects faded off, first the acute, stimulating, anxiolytic ones after 1-3 days then the protracted antidepressive ones after 1-2 weeks and my natural state of depression and anxiety sets back in.

But that's not the complete truth. They can have a strong rebound especially from higher dosages where the studies about lesions etc. suggest that it's stronger in animals (faster metabolism, circumstances, whatever). There's a paper about ketamine addicts which points out that regular users above 0.5g/d for ifirc more than 6 months show some "destructive" changes on MRI - strangely there was no real association with psychosis? Have to dig out that one.

kidklmx said:
@dopamimetic I though it was well known that aAPs can exacerbate psychotic symptoms in some patients. Here is one case study on Olanzapine
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Thanks for the link about olanzapine worsening psychosis. Yeah, I read too that some including this antipsychotic even have acoustic hallucinations listed as side effects that occur in quite a few and while strangely olanzapine is about the only higher potency ones I tolerated (well, I sleeped through would be more adequate, but no sign of voices in opposition to risperidone, aripiprazol etc.) I am probably a bad example again as it wasn't natural/"real" psychosis but induced by a very strange adverse reaction specific to morphine and worsened but not induced(!) by dissociatives.

Unfortunately, no, by my own and others experience, doctors know fuck about this.

Just found that:

An animal model of schizophrenia
Dizocilpine has a great deal of potential to be used in research in creating animal models of schizophrenia. Unlike dopaminergic agonists, which mimic only the positive symptoms of schizophrenia, a single injection of dizocilpine was successful in modelling both the positive and negative symptoms of schizophrenia.[13] Another study found that, although repeated low doses of dizocilpine were only successful in mimicking behavioral changes such as a slight hyperlocomotion and decreased prepulse inhibition, repeated administration of a higher dose mimicked both the above changes as well as the neurochemical alterations found in first-episode schizophrenic patients.[14] Not only has temporary use been shown to mimic psychosis but chronic administration in laboratory animals resulted in similar neuropathological changes as in schizophrenia.[15]
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@schizopath: Interesting too. Afaik a high percentage of people labelled schizophrenic are smokers, but nicotine doesn't make them worse but more aids with some of the negative symptoms. To me, nicotine exacrebates SSRI withdrawal which is very strange given that cig smoke contains MAO inhibitors but as it's the same with cigs as well as pure nicotine, it's that and the harmalines just are too weak. Do you mind to share what kind of psychotic reaction / symptoms you get from smoking? Is it pleasurable to you acutely, despite the symptoms or are they protracted?
Interested as dizocilpine appears to be too one of the only very selective dissociatives but also pretty neurotoxic?? Used to think that PCP(s) might be specially toxic and/or they come with just an excess of dopamine, while e.g. ketamine is less of a dopaminergic and DXM isn't a real one - I still need to read the first report about brain damage from DXM besides Olney, knowing though that it put pretty some people into psychiatry and was the worst for me in regard to auditory hallucinations - DXE was the best, I think, along with memantine. Wonder if I could make any conclusions out of that, at least for myself..

Said that, sorry for derailing further as it's nothing about weed and yeah to my experience, weed is the better psychotomimetic than any dissociative so far.
 
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