s(+)ketamine. Dosage and Identification

[Juremo]

I acquired some ketamine powder that is supposedly s(+) ketamine.

To test the waters I measured 4x25mg bumps and insufflated them every 15 minutes over the course of 1 hour (I weigh around 75kg, no tolerance)
I did not hole but I went into deep dreamlike states for some minutes but never went as far as around 50mg of MXE would get me (the only dissociative I have experience with).
The sub-hole effects were much more pleasant than mxe, like body and soul wrapped into nice soft bubble-wrap.

According to some paper I found, peak plasma concentration of insufflated s-keta is achieved after around 10-15 minutes. This would make this way of taking ket inefficient to hole, correct?
I want to have a psychedelic experience, not a bubble-wrap experience, so is it likely that the same 100mg IM (at once) would make me hole?

And... according to what I read the effects for that dosage are consistent with normal (racemic) ket, as s-keta is supposed to have almost double that potency.
Although I have a hard time finding reliable sources on this.

Anyway it would be nice to confirm if I really have s-ket and not racemic ket. My Idea:
As s-keta is optically active, it should rotate polarized light counter-clockwise. Can i buy cheap 3d paper glasses (the ones using polarizing foil) and build my own polarimeter out of it? Do I need linearly polarized light or will circular polarization filters do (already have those)?
So the setup would be:
1. one vial with water, one vial with a little bit of ket dissolved in water.
2. put one polarization filter behind the two vials, put the second in front of the water vial
3. rotate it until the front filter appears completely black.
4. put it in front of the keta, if it's still black it's racemic. If I have to turn it to the left, it's s-ket.

correct? what concentration would I need to get a measurable effect?

(i hope this is the right forum)

 

[sekio]

For a polarimeter, you should use linearly polarised light.

I can't actually find the specific rotation for S-ketamine, sorry...

Ad AFAIK, S-ketamine is something like 2-3x as active as R-ketamine. 100mg of S-ketamine IM should have you in a pretty good K-hole.

 

[Juremo]

Thanks. As I have no ket experience I can't really compare potency. The first 25mg bump had analgetic&floaty effects with a strength similar 25mg of Methoxetamine. From what I read this seems to be strong. But maybe it's comparing apples to oranges.

I'd really like to know what I am taking so I think I'll give the polarimeter idea a go.

The thing about esketamine being 2-3x times as active is that all the statements made in the literature refer to the clinical use where the psychedelic/hallucinogenic effects are not intended.
Has anyone experience with the (confirmed) s-ketamine (i.e. from a esketamine injection bottle) and can comment on the subjective effects?

 

[pyro2525]

My [non-confirmed but very lengthy and literature compared] experience has normally been that s(+)ketamine has more visual and 'clean' effects and looks shardy (long thin crystals), whereas r(-)ketamine has more of a body buzz and 'dirty' effect and can vary from rocky, pebbly, or possibly powdery.

Note: most k is a mixture of both since 'animals don't care either way' and can have any variety of appearance and effect

 

[sekio]

As far as I know, R-ketamine is not sold as a pure compound - ketamine for veterinary/human use is either racemic or S, never R.

 

[pyro2525]

As far as I know, R-ketamine is not sold as a pure compound - ketamine for veterinary/human use is either racemic or S, never R.

Hmmm interesting, I've always thought there were 3 types gauging from the range of effects I've had and the different visual appearances.. As purely shardy s+, purely rock/pebbles r-, and cubey/variety being racemic. Is the racemic mixture purely manufactured as 50/50? Or can it vary?

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

I'm going to move this over to Psychedelic Drugs.

OD --> PD

 

[sn23]

Racemic ketamine is always an optically inactive 50/50 mixture of S- and R-ketamine, per definition. Standard synthesis intoduces asymmetric centers with equal probability for both directions, i.e. 50/50 chance that one molecule ends as S-enantiomer or R-enantiomer. The ratio does not vary significantly except when one tries to separate the enantiomers, but that is not a kitchen chemistry technique.

 

[blazR]

I remember a freind bringing my about 3 grams of the S-enantiomer(^thought it was isomer?). There are and were no doubt that the potency is higher than regular ketamine(racemic), but also shorter duration.

Had lots of fun with that S-ketamine :D

//blazR

 

[psood0nym]

According to all official documentation I've ever found, there is only one commercial source for S-Ketamine: Ketanest S (anyone who can point me to a company or academic source to prove otherwise go ahead with it). It is more expensive than racemic because separating the S involves extra steps. If you have S it should cost you significantly more than racemic. If it's in a vial it should say "Ketanest S." Any other vial isn't S.This isn't to say a custom illicit synthesis couldn't have been done and sold as powder. I don't really doubt this may have been done, but it's not all that likely any random K sold as S is actually S and it should still cost more. Just think about how easy it is to lie to people who have no way of knowing better. Even if it "feels" more potent, that may just be expectancy bias/placebo. People are always posting about how one brand is more __ than others, but if it's the same concentration in solution it's all basically the same physically unless it has a psychoactive preservative, and I think there's only one or two brands with that.

 

[Juremo]

There is actually an enantioselective synthesis of s-keta published:

However, the enantiopure compound is only
obtained via optical resolution of the tartaric acid salt, leaving the undesired (R)-Ketamine as a
by-product. [...] The first asymmetric synthesis of Ketamine with excellent selectivity (>99% ee) was accomplished by a short path according to the strategy.

My knowledge of organic chemistry is too limited to assess how difficult this is and how well the synthesis would scale.
So I assume that if S-Ketamine is available illicitly it's most likely diverted Ketanest vials. Of course these could be dried and sold as powder but the price for legal Ketanest S is more than 100EUR/g* . A dealer having access to them would not sell them as an anonymous white powder.

So I can answer my own question finally: it's extremely unlikely I have s-ketamine and I can save myself the work of building a polarimeter

*: mentioning the legal price of pharmaceutical products only available with a prescription surely is not forbidden... or is it?

 

[Drag2019]

I know this is an 8-year-old thread. Is there any way to tell if someone has Esketamine or racemic by possibly sending it to some kind of lab that tests drugs for free or for a reasonable price?

I know for a fact where I'm located there is indeed lots of Esketamine going around. Yet it wouldn't surprise me if some ass hat sells me racemic thinking it's Esketamine or purposely trying to rip me off for 2 examples?