Rosemary Honey MAOI Experiments

[G_Chem]

Some of you may have followed my honey research awhile back, one thing I came upon during that was the possibility that certain psychoactive flavonoids have fairly potent MAOI properties.

Rosemary Honey is a psychoactive which I believe based on research and experimentation has kaempferol and 8-methoxy-kaempferol as the main components. Kaempferol again said to be an MAOI.

Before I continue I’d like to update a more thorough review of Rosemary Honey itself. A tablespoon of RH will produce a euphoric albeit short lived experience that feels a mix between opiates and gaba drugs. It hits around 20-30min in with a noticeable feel good effect that tapers off over the next 20-30min. I also find it interesting that it seems to cancel out my bupe where I feel I need my next dose much sooner than normal. Overall I like the substance a fair amount, the only honey I really enjoy.


Anywho.. Back to RH’s MAOI properties. I’ve slowly experimented around using it in increasing doses with a variety of psychedelics and even a couple times in minute doses after MDMA. No strange or unexpected reactions.

Last night I finally went all in and consumed 1tbsp of RH, then waited about 40min. By that point I was well into the psychoactive feel of the RH, and figured if the kaempferol is what’s giving that effect it should be good into my system. I then consumed 40mg DMT freebase in a capsule.

My overall impression is that RH itself is not an MAOI. I didn’t in any way achieve a psychedelic trip, it did feel as though I took a large dose of 5-htp. There was some serotonin activity as my body warmed up and some other things, but no DMT trip.

This matches my previous experiences, I’ve taken up to 1/2tsp after MDMA which probably wouldn’t have felt good had it actually had MAOI properties.

So this leads me to two conclusions… Either Kaempferol and related methoxylated flavonoids don’t have MAOI properties, or the psychoactivity of RH is mediated by some other unknown component.

-GC

 

[Skorpio]

Glad to see these unknowns being tested methodically. Great write-up!

I was about to suggest that it could still produce weak maoi effects (but have a lower affinity than DMT at monoamine oxidase), but DMT already is more resistant to oxidation than un-N-substituted tryptamines, which leads me to believe the honey wouldn't affect any of the neurotransmitters with their rather high affinity to MAO.

Do you have any hypotheses of what causes the activity of this honey?

 

[kongoman]

Sorry for my little knowledge of chemistry and biology. Can I ask you whats MAOI and IMAO its the same? How do you feel when serotonin is kicking or dopamine.? Its very interesting

Thank you in advanced

Kongoman

 

[Skorpio]

Sorry for my little knowledge of chemistry and biology. Can I ask you whats MAOI and IMAO its the same? How do you feel when serotonin is kicking or dopamine.? Its very interesting

Thank you in advanced

Kongoman

MAOIs are a class of drugs called monoamine oxidase inhibitors. These prevent the enzyme monoamine oxidase (MAO) from breaking down monoamines.

Typically these are the neurotransmitters serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and histamine, and MAOIs are used as anti-depressants to increase the levels of these neurotransmitters.

Some drugs like DMT are degraded by MAO very quickly. This is why people need to smoke DMT to trip on it alone. Taking MAOIs allows for oral doses of DMT to produce a trip (which was first reported in the form of ayahuasca, where plants containing MAOI compounds prevent the breakdown of DMT from other plants).

What G_Chem did, was to test if this honey was a MAOI, by taking it before an oral DMT dose. If it actually inhibited monoamine oxidase, they would have tripped on the oral dose of DMT. Since that didn't occur, the effects of this honey are likely due to effects other than inhibition of monoamine oxidase enzymes.

 

[kongoman]

Thank you @Skorpio ! How magic is the brain with all kind of neurotransmiters, some of them are involved when you take H or k. And some drugs binds two or thre receptors and other drug binds other 3. I read here in BL that alcohol is binding like 6 receptors at time.

Well drugs has been created for our brain or it's the brain created to drugs. I think they evolution togheter

Im sorry G_CHem im a little bit out of topic. You know, im eating rosemary HONEY LIKE a bear.
Mixed with iogurt its incredible. I will be waiting if something occurrs after eating the RH.

Mother nature is incredible and We are part of it.


Kongoman

 

[G_Chem]

Glad to see these unknowns being tested methodically. Great write-up!

I was about to suggest that it could still produce weak maoi effects (but have a lower affinity than DMT at monoamine oxidase), but DMT already is more resistant to oxidation than un-N-substituted tryptamines, which leads me to believe the honey wouldn't affect any of the neurotransmitters with their rather high affinity to MAO.

Do you have any hypotheses of what causes the activity of this honey?

You know before writing this, and during the experience itself I at times wondered if it was slightly working. My vision became blurry, I had other slight effects. I was initially going to say it did have slight inhibitors properties but the effects were so light that I chalked it up to excess serotonin floating around. That said I wonder still if maybe this has any utility as an adjunct to other potent MAOI’s..

My best guess is the effects are mostly mediated by the endorphin release. The effects feel so opiate like to me in the euphoria part. Typically it seems based on other drugs/things that release b-endorphin that the effects are often short lived, but for at least 15-20min there’s this very noticeable happiness that puts a smile on my face.

Thank you @Skorpio ! How magic is the brain with all kind of neurotransmiters, some of them are involved when you take H or k. And some drugs binds two or thre receptors and other drug binds other 3. I read here in BL that alcohol is binding like 6 receptors at time.

Well drugs has been created for our brain or it's the brain created to drugs. I think they evolution togheter

Im sorry G_CHem im a little bit out of topic. You know, im eating rosemary HONEY LIKE a bear.
Mixed with iogurt its incredible. I will be waiting if something occurrs after eating the RH.

Mother nature is incredible and We are part of it.


Kongoman

Interesting that you’ve been eating Rosemary Honey!! Do you notice any effects ever? It seems you rather like it which has me wonder if maybe the subtlety of the honey combined with its euphoric effect has drawn you in. I’m going to assume you don’t dump a full tabespoon in each morning

If your curious to see.. You should stop using it for one week, then take a full tablespoon or more and report back if you feel anything! I noticed when I used it daily I formed a tolerance.

-GC

 

[kongoman]

Interesting that you’ve been eating Rosemary Honey!! Do you notice any effects ever? It seems you rather like it which has me wonder if maybe the subtlety of the honey combined with its euphoric effect has drawn you in. I’m going to assume you don’t dump a full tabespoon in each morning

If your curious to see.. You should stop using it for one week, then take a full tablespoon or more and report back if you feel anything! I noticed when I used it daily I formed a tolerance

At the moment i didnt noticed any effect of this honey but I have to say that my brain is intoxicated By so many drugs at the moment, antidepressant, bupropion, venlafaxine, lyrica, and benzos, quetiapine and etumina. I think its impossible to notice any subtle effect.
What do you think?

Kongoman

 

[G_Chem]

At the moment i didnt noticed any effect of this honey but I have to say that my brain is intoxicated By so many drugs at the moment, antidepressant, bupropion, venlafaxine, lyrica, and benzos, quetiapine and etumina. I think its impossible to notice any subtle effect.
What do you think?

Kongoman

Ah yea that’s a very real possibility. It definitely would be like a drop in the bucket compared to all of that, especially the benzos. There could also be some unknown interaction too. Also if the honey was pasteurized that can kill it too, but my moneys on all the meds.

That said I do appreciate you giving it a try I think you’re the first to try and report back so thank you!

-GC

 

[kongoman]

Ive eaten 1kg in two weeks haha. Probably i ODed. Now I will stay two weeks without.
Its a pleasure to try to contribute to your experiment.

Kongoman

 

[Skorpio]

@G_Chem

Is there a specific brand of rosemary honey you think is best?

 

[kongoman]

@Skorpio the best is to buy it from a beekeper.
With no brand. You can try in a diatetics shop or an herbal shop. Rosemary Honey is close to white or more clear than standard honey.

Kongoman

 

[G_Chem]

Ive eaten 1kg in two weeks haha. Probably i ODed. Now I will stay two weeks without.
Its a pleasure to try to contribute to your experiment.

Kongoman

Haha yea you likely have a tolerance if it works at all for you. But please do try, just for sake of experimentation. Maybe use 2-3tbsp too.

@G_Chem

Is there a specific brand of rosemary honey you think is best?

I’ve been using Four Sons brand from Ozark Farms. Not sure if it’s the best as I’ve yet to try others. Having tried all their mono-floral honeys I like what they have, their raspberry is really good. Only problem is one time I had one break in the box in transit and there was absolutely no way to contact anyone about it.

-GC

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Some of you may have followed my honey research awhile back, one thing I came upon during that was the possibility that certain psychoactive flavonoids have fairly potent MAOI properties.

Rosemary Honey is a psychoactive which I believe based on research and experimentation has kaempferol and 8-methoxy-kaempferol as the main components. Kaempferol again said to be an MAOI.

Before I continue I’d like to update a more thorough review of Rosemary Honey itself. A tablespoon of RH will produce a euphoric albeit short lived experience that feels a mix between opiates and gaba drugs. It hits around 20-30min in with a noticeable feel good effect that tapers off over the next 20-30min. I also find it interesting that it seems to cancel out my bupe where I feel I need my next dose much sooner than normal. Overall I like the substance a fair amount, the only honey I really enjoy.


Anywho.. Back to RH’s MAOI properties. I’ve slowly experimented around using it in increasing doses with a variety of psychedelics and even a couple times in minute doses after MDMA. No strange or unexpected reactions.

Last night I finally went all in and consumed 1tbsp of RH, then waited about 40min. By that point I was well into the psychoactive feel of the RH, and figured if the kaempferol is what’s giving that effect it should be good into my system. I then consumed 40mg DMT freebase in a capsule.

My overall impression is that RH itself is not an MAOI. I didn’t in any way achieve a psychedelic trip, it did feel as though I took a large dose of 5-htp. There was some serotonin activity as my body warmed up and some other things, but no DMT trip.

This matches my previous experiences, I’ve taken up to 1/2tsp after MDMA which probably wouldn’t have felt good had it actually had MAOI properties.

So this leads me to two conclusions… Either Kaempferol and related methoxylated flavonoids don’t have MAOI properties, or the psychoactivity of RH is mediated by some other unknown component.

-GC

Are you sure it is not the placebo effect? Maybe it is a mild MAOI much like ginger, licquorice root, nutmeg, coffee, chocolate, and yerba mate are?

 

[G_Chem]

Are you sure it is not the placebo effect? Maybe it is a mild MAOI much like ginger, licquorice root, nutmeg, coffee, chocolate, and yerba mate are?

Placebo effect of what? I didn’t feel anything (besides the normal relaxing effects Rosemary Honey..)

-GC

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Placebo effect of what? I didn’t feel anything (besides the normal relaxing effects Rosemary Honey..)

-GC

If you think it will relax you or get you high maybe it is from psychological suggestion? I have eaten Rosemary in food and had it in herbal infusions and I did not get any sort of high or relaxation from it.

I have eaten various types of honey. It does not make me high or relax me. It is like all other honey I have had such as wildflower type honey, orange blossom honey, clover honey, manuka honey from NZ, etc.

 

[G_Chem]

If you think it will relax you or get you high maybe it is from psychological suggestion? I have eaten Rosemary in food and had it in herbal infusions and I did not get any sort of high or relaxation from it.

I have eaten various types of honey. It does not make me high or relax me. It is like all other honey I have had such as wildflower type honey, orange blossom honey, clover honey, manuka honey from NZ, etc.

Possibly. That said based on past experiments, I’ve found placebo doesn’t hold true over multiple experiences. After about 3 uses of a drug it’s nature is shown. Rosemary Honey has consistently given me relaxing effects as has others who’ve tried it. It does take a tablespoon full which is why most don’t try it as that’s a fair amount of honey.

Also all the honeys you listed are non-psychoactive.

If you look in my other thread on honey I show how Rosemary is indeed psychoactive and helps attenuate opium withdrawal in Iranian opium addicts.

-GC

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Possibly. That said based on past experiments, I’ve found placebo doesn’t hold true over multiple experiences. After about 3 uses of a drug it’s nature is shown. Rosemary Honey has consistently given me relaxing effects as has others who’ve tried it. It does take a tablespoon full which is why most don’t try it as that’s a fair amount of honey.

Also all the honeys you listed are non-psychoactive.

If you look in my other thread on honey I show how Rosemary is indeed psychoactive and helps attenuate opium withdrawal in Iranian opium addicts.

-GC

Maybe I should buy some Rosemary honey or make it and see what happens? Can I cook rosemary in honey and just let the flavour absorb as it cools? Or just infuse the fresh rosemary leaves in honey?

 

[G_Chem]

Maybe I should buy some Rosemary honey or make it and see what happens? Can I cook rosemary in honey and just let the flavour absorb as it cools? Or just infuse the fresh rosemary leaves in honey?

You need to find raw and unfiltered Rosemary monofloral honey. Typically comes from Spain. A certain percentage (45%) of the pollen in the honey has to come from a single plant to be labeled monofloral. While I’m sure there may be some effects, the bees have certain enzymes which alter the flavonoids composition.

The theorized psychoactives are 8-methoxy-kaempferol and kaempferol. Methoxylated flavonoids are more bioavailable which is why Rosemary honey seems to work.

Definitely buy some and give it a try. Euphorbia honey and M. beecheii I highly recommend too but they are both more expensive.

-GC

 

[kongoman]

I love bees, every thing I know about I feel that bees have some kind of intelligence.
Their way of life is amazing, they have evolucionated almost like humans.
It's a thought only, I haven't experimented or studied their way of life.

Kongo

 

[G_Chem]

I love bees, every thing I know about I feel that bees have some kind of intelligence.
Their way of life is amazing, they have evolucionated almost like humans.
It's a thought only, I haven't experimented or studied their way of life.

Kongo

I agree bees are an example of highly intelligent insect species, their ability to think as one for the best of the hive is also fascinating.

I’m using royal jelly lately and highly recommend it. It doesn’t take much and contains a lot of probiotics among other healthy things. It’s what the bees give the queen.

-GC