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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

RFD: Do you agree removing 'smack' reference is good or bad in pillreports?

Waz: I don't mind at all :) after all, I just praphrased it from Pillreports title at the top of the webpage.
"Pillreports: Database for measuring the global quality of ecstacy pills"
BigTrancer :)
 
Smacky to me says the people think that it has heroin in it which is annoying, but really I cant see where this came from because I have done hundreds of pills and also tried heroin and there is absolutely no likeness between the two.
 
eh i've alkways have used the term smakey and still do. to me it's always meant the state of bveing, but yesh usually in being descriptive i also add on my ass and assorted. It is the street slang and well most ppl do know that it's the state of being. But on websites for educational and harm minimization they must be kept clean for any uniformed ppl quickly learnt all the right things.
*babbles*
 
points taken people.....but is it also time to stop refering to pills as "ecstasy".....and start calling them mdma pills or mda pills or whatever else?
the term ecstasy is a generic one.....and in my own opinion the most confusing. this needs addressing more so than "smacky"
[ 13 September 2002: Message edited by: lorrett ]
 
^ Very good point... one of the many reasons we encourage discussion of drugs by their proper names, and make it clear in the FAQ that "ecstacy" is a broad term meaning small coloured pill.
BigTrancer :)
 
i havent read the whole thread at this point in time, but my two cents worth is that i agree smacky should be removed... while i do agree that its become a colloqial term for describing the effects of a pill, it gives the impression that heroine may exist in pills to non-drug users - and correct me if im wrong, they are the people who are misunderstood and have misinterpreted the term. what people say at a rave makes no difference, they're generally already associated with the drug scene and usually dont have any problems with it anyway.
for that reason, ive given up on correcting people when they use the term 'smacky' when i talk to people while out, because its pointless, they see no reason to use a different term, and generally cant be bothered learning an alternative. i merely make a point of saying 'legless', 'on my arse', 'floored' or just plain 'fucked - i couldnt dance' instead.
 
Originally posted by syke:

However, is "speedy" not similiarly using the slang term for one drug to describe another? I guess it depends on what is understood by "speed" which is in itself a street name. By your argument, would all MDxx pills then, not fall under the category of being "speedy"?
Pleo, close to zero is still NOT zero, hence NEVER is too absolute. Apart from the dancesafe case, what about pills from regions where testing is not common practise, or even plausible? Just because there has not been a documented case you can access does not mean it does not exist. It is up to you to believe whether I am speaking out of my arse ;) .

The term "speedy" is a descriptive word. If you drink too much coffee you get speedy, it is a word that describes the effects of many stimulants. Can anyone misunderstand the meaning when someone says they feel speedy? Not really, but "smacky" can be used to describe a whole lot of different effects. To answer your question, all MDMA definitely has "speedy" elements to it (as it is an amphetamine), however the dominant feeling (for me) is not speediness so I wouldn't describe all mdma as speedy (but I can see how some people might).
As someone said, smacky is used to describe both positive and negative effects. It would be much better to use terms that more accurately describe the experience. Ketamine and rohypnol could be described as smacky, and so could a high dose of mdma. So when someone says a pill is "smacky" it doesn't actually give me much info about the pill contents, and therefore doesn't really benefit people when used on a public messageboard. Perhaps when you use it face to face with someone they can pick up on your physical cues to tell whether you mean it as a positive or negative description, but you can't tell that from a pill report. It sounds like moderators have been editing pill reports to make them more descriptive, but really the report poster should spend a little more time thinking about the most descriptive words to use, rather than just using the terms they think are cool.
Re your second paragraph above, if there is occasionally heroin in pills, wouldn't that be more reason not to use the term "smacky" when referring to pills unless they were the pills that contained heroin, as it would promote confusion about pill contents?
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Just to state for the record:
  • I have not and do not use the term "smacky" to describe a pill or its contents when posting on Bluelight/pillreports, and refrain from doing so when speaking to a BLer or someone I think may misunderstand.
  • It is, however, my terminology of choice in all other circumstances.
  • What I say are just my opinions and have no problems whether others accept them or not. You are as right as I am.
Having said that, my main concern is not who reads what, who thinks what, but rather are we helping to save lives? That should be our first priority, OVER education of lingo, myths, etc. That is not to say the rest are not important, just a matter of priority. Which is more important? To induct others into our lingo, dispel myths and prevent misunderstanding by non-users so that we can rest easier engaging in our illicit activites? Or to ensure the greatest number of people access information and potentially saving their lives?
Ask your average punter on the streets. They do not care if "smacky" means there is heroin in a pill or not, nor do they care if "speedy" means it contains speed, caffeine, etc. To them, it is as simple as "smacky" as opposed to "speedy". When looking at the world, let us not forget the little people that live on it.
Am I the only one who still feels that we are comparing the terms "speedy" and "smacky" in differing context? Forgive my ignorance if I have missed out on anyone's arguments otherwise. Content vs state of being. The ambiguity of category is applicable to both terms.
Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bluelight and Pillreports are about Harm Minimisation of the PEOPLE, first and foremost. If humiliating someone for his/her choice of words, banging your head against a wall because someone does not agree with your POV, etc floats your boat, then be my guest. All it will do is convince me you are just as self-serving as your average politician, journalist, whatever.
 
Lets get one thing straight. No one is here to humiliate anyone; Bluelight is probably the most pleasant and forgiving message board i have seen anywhere on the net.
And as for the banging my head against a brick wall line, that had NOTHING to do with people not adopting my or others point of view. Absolutely everyone is entitled to their own opinion; but thats not what it was aimed at. Go back and read the entire thread and see the reasons for peoples support for allowing people to use the term smackey...They are all about what the users say, what the street lingo is, the fact that its used so widely its better to adopt their language and be less alienating etc etc.
What was frustrating me was that the wider perspective and the potential dangers that misinformation can cause on a public message board was seemingly lost on those people and despite drawing attention to this very important point, it was clearly being ignored by them.
It had nothing to do with not sharing my opinion whatsoever. If these people feel that the wider/community perspective is not as important in allowing anyone to use whatever language they choose then thats fine with me; but they must identify that in their reasons otherwise the obvious inference is that they are ignoring this particular argument.
There have been several times in West Australian newspapers both posts on Pillreports and Bluelight have been quoted verbatim and sure enough at least one or two of those contained the dreaded S word. Journos arent stupid; they will scroll through these pages and find the most alarming and controversial post possible. The Moderators are entitled to adopt whatever view they personally like insofar as how they want these sites to function.
And at the same time they would not ever set out to eliminate free speech either and prevent peoples right to an opinion.
Harm minimisation is this site's major goal, that is agreed. So is education. But certainly another goal exists for most of us and thats lessening the demonisation of MDMA and other recreational drugs. This is something that has reached fever pitch in this country and its largely filled by misinformation. If Bluelight and its Moderators want to assist in correcting such misinformation and ignorance in the wider community, or at least not being a direct source of it, then so be it. As far as i can see it doesnt detract from the primary aims of education and harm minimisation either; instead it only strengthens it.
 
If any single thing on bluelight was able to break my heart, this would be it:
Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bluelight and Pillreports are about Harm Minimization of the PEOPLE, first and foremost. If humiliating someone for his/her choice of words, banging your head against a wall because someone does not agree with your POV, etc floats your boat, then be my guest. All it will do is convince me you are just as self-serving as your average politician, journalist, whatever.
This is totally for a harm minimization view, not just of the individual but the whole pill-consuming scene. We are trying to stop any misinformation from getting out in regards to us people who choose to consume illicit drugs. It may be a 'fighting' an uphill battle but there are certain circles in society who liken us to 'heroin junkies' (I use the term lightly as what exactly is a heroin junkie. Not everyone addicted to heroin steals everything they can get their hands on).
Anyway, this is from a totally un-selfish view on trying to educate the people who are not versed in why people use the term "smacky". I simply am trying my little bit in helping people just see the plain facts where possible. I really cannot say much else as everyone else who has put their views in have seemed to say it so well. Theres no selfish motive for trying to just remove any slang that can be deemed as something it's not. I put a lot of love into helping in Harm Minimization where I can and just hope you guys (especially my real life friends) do realize this is trying to minimize harm via stopping people think there are additives to pills (as being common) when it simply isn't happening.
I'll keep repeating myself but I am just trying to think of the big picture while thinking of the little pictures inside that big picture at the same time. You can't please everyone all the time but I can make damn sure that I am doing everything that I think is morally right when moderating the pillreports.com forum that I have been assigned to. (Yes, this is a post from the heart)
*EDIT* I got so caught up in my little 'rant' that I forgot to mention, I am still objectively reading this thread to see if I should keep changing the term smacky to what I think is more appropriate (to others outside our circle for the main) to read. So far I see the positives of removing the term "smacky" far outweigh the negatives.
[ 16 September 2002: Message edited by: wazza ]
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First and foremost, my apologies for coming across so harsh :( . My comments were not directed at anyone in particular, especially not you Wazza, just picking out what I perceive as negative vibes from others. In doing so, I neglected to proof-read my own post. My bad.:/
Wazza, honestly, I think you're doing a awesome job and by starting this thread to ask our opinions, it demonstrates great leadership and responsibility on your part. Please don't allow my voice of dissent detract from that!
Biscuit, whilst I cannot speak for the others who supported the term "smacky", I believe that we do see your point regarding educating the masses and lessening the demonisation of recreational drugs, just a difference in priority. Each time before I post, I read and re-read the entire thread but still fail to see how "speedy" and "smacky" are being compared under the same context. I have not ignored the fact that Bluelight and Pillreports draw public attention, rather favoured accessibility over public relations.
Whatever the Moderators/Administrators of these sites do, so long as it is in the interest of greater good, has my support. Dissent does not necessarily mean dissolution. I am just wary of hegemony.
My apologies again for taking this thread so far off-track. If anyone likes to continue the discussion in this direction, please feel free to email me on [email protected] or seek me out on IRC/ICQ/MSN. :D
 
^^^^^
Please don't feel you have to apologise for having a different viewpoint. If everyone agreed then this place would be boring as all hell. :)
 
Originally posted by Daimo:
I havent heard the term "Mongy" used at all before, is it a local saying pertaining to the state/city/location/social group?

Here in the UK, the word "Mongy" is quite widely used, but I don't know about anywhere else...
A lot of people use the word "smacky" here too though.
I don't think the word smacky should be used as an adjective for pills - at least on public forums - 'cos it is fairly misleading for the uninformed.
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At the risk of being " humilated " for my choice of words reffering to a strong MDXX hit i will add my views to this thread.
Although i may use it infrequently i have used the term "smacked" to refer to myself when in the heights of utopia ...
I would never chastise people for thier choice of words when reffering to how they feel...
I think a very good point was made that most reasonable people know that the chances of herion found in pills is close to 0 and if these same people wish to use the term smacky or smacked, jesus let it be so..
Who am i or anyone else to try impose my language set onto another...
Excuse me if i give the term "mongeyed" or "trollyed" a miss..
Someone also mentioned the media.. This is the same media that state there is rat poision or glass in our pills i think a reasonable person would dismiss this as soon as they would dismiss the myth that herion is used in pills.
Please people.. What are we arguing about ? there are much bigger fish to fry in the land of drug (mis)education.
 
William: If you believe most "Reasonable" people don't think that there is rat poison or glass in pills then you are sorely mistaken. Ask your average person in the street, and I think you'll be suprised that a majority would say that these things happen. Why? Because your average joe knows nothing of illegal drugs other than what the media/government tell them.
 
Appreciate your comments Syke.
As for the average person on the street bit; whats more plausible: heroin and cocaine in pills or rat poison and glass.
That comparison is way off imo.
The average person may well see the latter two as exaggerated scaremongering. But the former two are illicit drugs just like MDMA and methamphetamine. Of course they will assume they are contained in pills; i know some drug users who still do!
The point above about the term "ecstasy" fast becoming a generic meaning for any illicit drug contained in a pill is a very good one. Its also a sad one and its something that i think a lot of people work hard to try and change. Ecstasy should = MDMA, nothing more, nothing less.
But in any event, despite using ecstasy in this generic (and highly unacceptable) way, it STILL SHOULD NOT INLCUDE HEROIN as there is seldom, if ever, any heroin found in pills. (and if by miracle it does then i see it as just a very effective headache tablet; and an expensive one at that)
Its the one thing for almost certain no "ecstasy" pill contains. So why allow it to appear to anyone, user or not, that the two are related. The only thing they have in common is their characterisation as an illegal drug.
 
I always try to remember to write "ecstasy" in quotes to indicate that this is a generic term applying to disco pills, not just to MDMA.
Stand on your head and whistle through your arse if you like, but nothing is going to make language usage go back in time and make the term ecstasy once more refer only to MDMA.
I applaud the desire to be purist about the term "smacky Es" but I fear it ain't gonna go away, no matter what ya do.
So maybe we should put "smacky" in quotes always too... to indicate that the pill in question does not literally contain heroin.
If you ever catch me forgetting to put ecstasy in quotes, please feel free to smacky me on the botty.
Hmm.
;)
 
Originally posted by D&AWg:

If you ever catch me forgetting to put ecstasy in quotes, please feel free to smacky me on the botty.
Hmm.
;)
caught you... :) ..
D&AWg, novel idea.. and i think its a good comprimise , at least on BL, pill reports.
Except on the street i think it may cause a bit of a fuss if someone used the term "smacky" while doing the finger qoutes next to his head..
haha i might try it :) ..
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Dont forget guys that this entire discussion is about the use of "smackey" on Pillreports and Bluelight. (see topic outline)
Hence it isnt about whats being said on the street at all. Just because its whats many people use "out there" doesnt justify it being used by posters "in here".
 
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