Reverse Amphetamine damage

[Cassy2611]

Doxycycline reverses cognitive impairment, neuroinflammation and oxidative imbalance induced by D-amphetamine mania model in mice: A promising drug repurposing for bipolar disorder treatment?

Immune-inflammatory mechanisms are involved in the pathophysiology of bipolar disorder. Tetracyclines present neuroprotective actions based on their a…

www.sciencedirect.com

I know this study has to do with bipolar but I don't really understand all the science, but it says helps repair oxidative stress and other stuff caused by D-amphetamine and when I went off my vyvanse for 4 days and took cough medicine with DXM and 100mg of doxycycline my tolerance reset. I have a whole post on everything I took during these 4 days while I had a cold. Just want to know if this could've been a factor in my reset.

Vyvanse Tolerance Reset

Did dxm, doxycycline and other supplements reset my vyvanse tolerance in 4 days? Background info: I'm a 32, female, 8 months ago went on vyvanse, tolerance went up fast from 30mg to 70mg within first few months. I'm now on 70mg split, 40mg 5am and 30mg 10-11am, always had issues with Stims not...

bluelight.org

 

[emkee_reinvented]

They are not investigating therapeutic dosages on these rodents. Re calculated to my body weight that is 130 mg d-Amphetamine in one dose.

Therapeutic use never seem to have affected my cognition, other thing's (not necessarily drug's) did. Therapeutic doses are spread and mostly stay round max 40 mg.

So what was your usage Cassy?

 

[Cassy2611]

Thread 'Vyvanse Tolerance Reset' https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/vyvanse-tolerance-reset.920036/

 

[plumbus-nine]

How much DXM did you take? It's well known as both a potentiator and potential tolerance reducing agent against amphetamine. The article you've linked is interesting, with the caveat that it's in mice and based on a mania model (even though their dosages weren't so exceedingly high as usual, 2mg/kg divided through 12 for rodent-to-human isn't much). I'll read through it. We already have D-cycloserine which could be used for anxiety disorders and possibly as a fast acting antidepressant (if I'm not misled now) but the fact that both are antibiotics unfortunately limits their use. Hopefully somebody comes up with more selective agents.

Welcome to bluelight Cassy btw!

About oxidative stress from stimulant use, it seems to be an important point and possibly even worse than thought - I think the hangover many people get even from therapeutic use of stimulants is primarily mediated not by depletion of dopamine but by oxidative stress through dopamine oxidation. Don't wanna say that stim therapy was dangerous, there's a well established safety but we have a nootropic antioxidant called emoxypine which might make an ideal add-on to stim therapy/use. In my experience it almost completely alleviated the rebound irritability, headache etc. by isopropylphenidate. Didn't try with amphetamine yet but will do when I get the chance for a prescription again..

 

[Cassy2611]

How much DXM did you take? It's well known as both a potentiator and potential tolerance reducing agent against amphetamine. The article you've linked is interesting, with the caveat that it's in mice and based on a mania model (even though their dosages weren't so exceedingly high as usual, 2mg/kg divided through 12 for rodent-to-human isn't much). I'll read through it. We already have D-cycloserine which could be used for anxiety disorders and possibly as a fast acting antidepressant (if I'm not misled now) but the fact that both are antibiotics unfortunately limits their use. Hopefully somebody comes up with more selective agents.

Welcome to bluelight Cassy btw!

About oxidative stress from stimulant use, it seems to be an important point and possibly even worse than thought - I think the hangover many people get even from therapeutic use of stimulants is primarily mediated not by depletion of dopamine but by oxidative stress through dopamine oxidation. Don't wanna say that stim therapy was dangerous, there's a well established safety but we have a nootropic antioxidant called emoxypine which might make an ideal add-on to stim therapy/use. In my experience it almost completely alleviated the rebound irritability, headache etc. by isopropylphenidate. Didn't try with amphetamine yet but will do when I get the chance for a prescription again..

I believe I took 60 mg of dxm a day for my cold. This is all described in detail in my Vyvanse Tolerance Reset post. I'm trying to get back to a lower dose pr get my dose to work and stop taking extras here and there or on the weekends.

Accidental Experiment: I had a cold a week ago, wasn't trying to reset my vyvanse tolerance. (But now I currently am)
4 days no vyvanse
took dayquil w/dxm 2-3xs a day
walgreens multivitamin 1x a day
walgreens immunity boost vitamin 1x a day (vitamin c 90mg, vitamin D3 50mg, zinc 5mg, elderberry powder 50mg, euglena gracilis algea 375mg)
doxycycline 100mg for acne 1x a day suboxone 12-16mg/1-2 strips(sometimes I take 16mg when I don't take vyvanse or if I'm feeling like crap, I usually only take 1 strip/8mg a day instead of the 12mg im prescribed)
took some magnesium glycinate 1-2×s during thr 4 days
walgreens stress vitamin 1-2xs during the 4 days (Ashwagandha 125mg, GABA 100mg and 200 mg L-theanine)

I am prescribed vyvanse, suboxone, propranolol, flecainide and I take zyrtec everyday for allergies

 

[Cassy2611]

They are not investigating therapeutic dosages on these rodents. Re calculated to my body weight that is 130 mg d-Amphetamine in one dose.

Therapeutic use never seem to have affected my cognition, other thing's (not necessarily drug's) did. Therapeutic doses are spread and mostly stay round max 40 mg.

So what was your usage Cassy?

I am prescribed to 70mg of vyvanse, 40mg in am, 4am-5am and 30mg around 11am-12pm. Sometimes I've taken an extra 30 or 30 and 40, but I just want to take my meds as prescribed and less than 70mg of vyvanse if possible. This post is in addition to my main post about how I accidently reset my tolerance and I'm trying to figure out what factors contributed so I can do it again but be prepared this time. Which is why I'm wondering if my doxycycline had anything to do with it or not or was it just the dxm or vitamins. I was sick for 4 days and didn't take my vyvanse and then when I took it on the 5th day it was very strong. But I have a history of amphetamine abuse, I used 100-300mg a day for 3 years. Well 100-200mg a day, when I got to 300mg and almost blew up my heart I quit, but that was 10 years ago, when I was 19 till 21, now I'm 32 and my life is a lot better with vyvanse because I can stay awake all day without randomly falling asleep and my dopamine isn't too low. Maybe I can link my original post.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

70 mg vyvanse converts to 20 mg d-Amphetamine.

With the additional dose yours and mine are/ were more or less the same. Don't worry, and if you do just use Ayurvedic herbs or known nootropics. Or whatevever but not that.

Doxycicline is a antibiotic if I am correct. Not only will it be like killing a mosquito with an ax. It will also have an negative influence on your intestinal flora.

Vacation breaks do help to lower tolerance. Or in other words you will feel more speed up a few day's. But it levels quickly.

 

[Cassy2611]

70 mg vyvanse converts to 20 mg d-Amphetamine.

With the additional dose yours and mine are/ were more or less the same. Don't worry, and if you do just use Ayurvedic herbs or known nootropics. Or whatevever but not that.

Doxycicline is a antibiotic if I am correct. Not only will it be like killing a mosquito with an ax. It will also have an negative influence on your intestinal flora.

Vacation breaks do help to lower tolerance. Or in other words you will feel more speed up a few day's. But it levels quickly.

Yes I usually take off one day a week. I was on doxycycline for years for acne,

after abusing amphetamine/adderrall for 3 years and I was taking 100-200mg a day, would only sleep once every 3 days but then when i got up to 300mg a day i quit because i thought i was going to blow up my heart,

and I've been on it for pneumonia and a few other illnesses but usually at higher doses, for acne I just took 50-100mg once a day. But I'm out of it now, I'm sure I could get more from my dermatologist even though my acne is gone now for the most part.

Anyways, I was just trying to see if there were things I could use to help speed up the tolerance reduction. For example instead of taking a week off I could take 2-3 days offs while using the right supplements or medicine like dxm, l tyrosine, magnesium etc.


Although I have found I like the combo of Vyvanse and strattera it seems to lower my anxiety and feel more evened out emotionally on vyvanse, sometimes I feel like it makes it last a little longer but not sure only tried it for a few days but I also started using the L-tyrosine, it gave me headaches at first but not anymore.

Only tried the strattera and vy together to see if it'd help me take less but I really like it together at my regular dose.


I'll definitely look into the herbs, idk much about nootropics. Also could my suboxone be affecting my vyvanse? I'm prescribe to 12 mg/1.5 strips but I usually only take 8mg or 1 strip a day except when I take days off from vyvanse I'll take 1.5-2 strips. When I take my vyvanse I usually take my sub in the late afternoon in case it does effect my vyvanse since they both affect the CNS I believe. I also take zyrtec, propranolol, flecainide, and glycopyrolate daily but I don't think those affect anything.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Ime the combo of dex-Amphetamine and Kratom was perfect.

Regular use, so 20/ 35 mg dex with 3 to 5 doses of 2/3 grams Kratom. Nice balance and i always slept well, was productive and in general feeling good.

Never tried Buprenorphine though. Did do some trials with Piracetam, N-acetyl-Carnitine and such but herbs have more of a punch imo.

 

[Cassy2611]

Ime the combo of dex-Amphetamine and Kratom was perfect.

Regular use, so 20/ 35 mg dex with 3 to 5 doses of 2/3 grams Kratom. Nice balance and i always slept well, was productive and in general feeling good.

Never tried Buprenorphine though. Did do some trials with Piracetam, N-acetyl-Carnitine and such but herbs have more of a punch imo.

I did just get some white and green kratom, was hoping it'd help me take a break from vyvanse or help me cut down more on my subs. What supplements or herbs would you recommend to try to take in place of vyvanse or to help with EDS(excessive daytime sleepiness) and concentration. I just want to be able to stay awake and have energy because I'm always tired and have no energy or motivation but I know my low dopamine levels can make me depressed too

 

[Keif' Richards]

This is going to go the advanced section. It's scope is beyond the relatively simple stuff we handle here in BDD. -------> Pharmacology.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I did just get some white and green kratom, was hoping it'd help me take a break from vyvanse or help me cut down more on my subs. What supplements or herbs would you recommend to try to take in place of vyvanse or to help with EDS(excessive daytime sleepiness) and concentration. I just want to be able to stay awake and have energy because I'm always tired and have no energy or motivation but I know my low dopamine levels can make me depressed too

Like Keif mentioned this is a bit beyond our scope. What works for me would not per see be helpful to you.

And Kratom ime especiallly the white ones, but also green/ or red strains are stimulating to begin with. Depending on the dosage offcourse.
You could add some Mate, Guarana or Matcha. But theses are just improved delivery systems of Caffein. Ashwhaghanda overal alway's felt good to me. But for stimulating herbs Rhodiola Rosea, if you can tolerate it is the better option.

Maca is what is on the menu in my household and while not stimulating feels to do some overal good. So here are some thing you could try, just don't expect Amphetamine like effect's.

 

[Cassy2611]

Like Keif mentioned this is a bit beyond our scope. What works for me would not per see be helpful to you.

And Kratom ime especiallly the white ones, but also green/ or red strains are stimulating to begin with. Depending on the dosage offcourse.
You could add some Mate, Guarana or Matcha. But theses are just improved delivery systems of Caffein. Ashwhaghanda overal alway's felt good to me. But for stimulating herbs Rhodiola Rosea, if you can tolerate it is the better option.

Maca is what is on the menu in my household and while not stimulating feels to do some overal good. So here are some thing you could try, just don't expect Amphetamine like effect's.

I know this is a few months old.

I did just start talking Maca, also daily Kratom user, I've cut down from 12mg of sub to 6mg of sub. Looks like I'll finally be off of that some day.

I definitely feel like Red Kapuas is pretty decent for not putting me to sleep but I don't get any energy. Probably won't till I'm off suboxone due to the receptors sub and kratom affect.

In any case, I was wondering more about the Ayurvedic herbs, they really fascinate me, especially oroxylin A. I have only got to try it in Sabroxy but its a DRI and the most stimulanting herb I've tried. Not quite Ritalin, but it has potential to be close.


And after much introspection I realize Vyvanse isn't what I need, I need something not as strong that I haven't had issues with, which would be ritalin. But id like to find natural alternatives. And I have Chronic fatigue syndrome not EDS which makes a lot of sense now. Therefore I gotta focus on mitochondria dysfunction and motivation/focus/energy.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I know this is a few months old.

I did just start talking Maca, also daily Kratom user, I've cut down from 12mg of sub to 6mg of sub. Looks like I'll finally be off of that some day.

I definitely feel like Red Kapuas is pretty decent for not putting me to sleep but I don't get any energy. Probably won't till I'm off suboxone due to the receptors sub and kratom affect.

In any case, I was wondering more about the Ayurvedic herbs, they really fascinate me, especially oroxylin A. I have only got to try it in Sabroxy but its a DRI and the most stimulanting herb I've tried. Not quite Ritalin, but it has potential to be close.


And after much introspection I realize Vyvanse isn't what I need, I need something not as strong that I haven't had issues with, which would be ritalin. But id like to find natural alternatives. And I have Chronic fatigue syndrome not EDS which makes a lot of sense now. Therefore I gotta focus on mitochondria dysfunction and motivation/focus/energy.

Maca is good, Ashwagandha even better. Even enabled me to ejaculate again, No erectile dysfunction or loss of libido. Just it raised the block preventing my sperm spreading around.

 

[Foreigner]

I think you have to mainly focus on so-called adrenal support. I say so-called because the popular supports for adrenals are not just affecting the adrenals proper, but also the receptors all over the body that the neurohormones interact with.

Oxidative stress is generally reversed with antioxidant therapy. Some great low risk, high impact antioxidants are grapeseed extract, curcumin, rutin, quercetin, vitamin E, natural vitamin C, retinol (preformed vitamin A), sulforaphane, pycnogenol... there are probably others. Minerals that the adrenals need for conversions are magnesiun, boron, zinc, and manganese.

"Adrenals" are often helped with trophorestoratives like nettle (urtica urens or dioica), ashwaganda, milky oats (derived from the seed) and oat straw tea, eleuthero (siberian ginseng), holy basil (tulsi), cordyceps, schisandra.

Personally, if I were recovering from amphetamine burnout, I would take cordyceps, schisandra, eleuthero, grapeseed extract, quercetin, rutin, natural vitamin C, and the minerals I mentioned.

 

[Cassy2611]

I think you have to mainly focus on so-called adrenal support. I say so-called because the popular supports for adrenals are not just affecting the adrenals proper, but also the receptors all over the body that the neurohormones interact with.

Oxidative stress is generally reversed with antioxidant therapy. Some great low risk, high impact antioxidants are grapeseed extract, curcumin, rutin, quercetin, vitamin E, natural vitamin C, retinol (preformed vitamin A), sulforaphane, pycnogenol... there are probably others. Minerals that the adrenals need for conversions are magnesiun, boron, zinc, and manganese.

"Adrenals" are often helped with trophorestoratives like nettle (urtica urens or dioica), ashwaganda, milky oats (derived from the seed) and oat straw tea, eleuthero (siberian ginseng), holy basil (tulsi), cordyceps, schisandra.

Personally, if I were recovering from amphetamine burnout, I would take cordyceps, schisandra, eleuthero, grapeseed extract, quercetin, rutin, natural vitamin C, and the minerals I mentioned.

Thanks I'll definitely get some of those. Been looking into schisandra, quercetin, holy basil, and eleuthero. Also heard emoxypine might help. I definitely like cordyceps especially this ultra one I have, it has Artichoke extract in it as well. And I have another mushroom blend with cordyceps, lion's mane, and reshi bit I prefer the other one with Artichoke extract

I feel like the day breaks and week break here and there have helped.

Definitely starring to think my brain just doesn't agree with amphetamine anymore and finding out that I have cfs makes a lot of sense.

Which is y I want to get off vyvanse and find the closest natural source. Which for that I think it'll be oroxylin A and if it really does increase BDNF that'll at least potentially help things from getting worse or possibly help me to not get the neuro-degenerative diseases that run in my family.

I'll definitely look into all the recommendations thanks.