Opioids rapid bupe taper
- Thread starter ladianios
- Start date
Your experience isnt an isolated one by any means: a single 8mg suboxone/subetex used over the course of 4-7 days gets me thru all the physical stuff, and that was doing over 100mg a day of hydromorphone (Dilaudid). 2-4mg day one, 1-2 day 2, .5-1 day three, etc. I never take it more than a week, rarely more than 4 days. Use it to get over the worst w/d symptoms, and no more, you'll be fine. Use it for years like some people, and getting off it will make hardcore opiate w/d look like a free trip to Disneyland. Just wait until you fel like absolute shit before taking bupe, otherwise PW is a REAL possibility, and DONT IV it, there is absolutely no gain over sublingual use, and a horde of possible downfalls.
Did i read this correctly that You're basically jumping from 24mgs? Dude that seems unwise. And extremely painful.
Op, thank you for sharing your expierience, because it has given me hope for my upcoming bupe taper that I wasn't too confident in until I read your post. I have 2 1/2 8mg strips.
My plan is to start May 1st.
4 days- 2 mgs
6 days- 1mg
4 to 8 days - .5 mg
Our tolerance seems pretty close, the only difference being that I have been on the oxys for around 5 years.
I've never taken bupe before other than yesterday as sort of a trial run. I can honestly say that taking 2mgs yesterday made me feel "normal". Something I haven't felt in a very long time. Not cloudy from being high, not sick from withdrawl. I took the bupe with low expectations. Thinking maybe it will keep me from feeling like complete shit, but I'd still be sort of depressed and anti social. I was so surprised when I went to a family gathering for Easter and was social, and HAPPY. Feeling like my normal non-drugged up self.
Then having just read how your raaaaapid taper worked, really sent my confidence through the roof.
My concern was that I didn't buy enough strips to ween myself off of without going through WD.
I'm 23 years old and I'm the primary caregiver for my 3 young daughters. 2 1\2 year old twins and a 5 year old. When I go through WD its obviously extremely difficult to care for them the way they deserve. So I finally decided this is what needs to be done. Anyway, thank you everyone for all of your expierience and input and wish me luck.
Congrats on your success OP. Its a very nasty and expensive habit to kick. Hopefully I'll be right there with you soon.
My plan is to start May 1st.
4 days- 2 mgs
6 days- 1mg
4 to 8 days - .5 mg
Our tolerance seems pretty close, the only difference being that I have been on the oxys for around 5 years.
I've never taken bupe before other than yesterday as sort of a trial run. I can honestly say that taking 2mgs yesterday made me feel "normal". Something I haven't felt in a very long time. Not cloudy from being high, not sick from withdrawl. I took the bupe with low expectations. Thinking maybe it will keep me from feeling like complete shit, but I'd still be sort of depressed and anti social. I was so surprised when I went to a family gathering for Easter and was social, and HAPPY. Feeling like my normal non-drugged up self.
Then having just read how your raaaaapid taper worked, really sent my confidence through the roof.
My concern was that I didn't buy enough strips to ween myself off of without going through WD.
I'm 23 years old and I'm the primary caregiver for my 3 young daughters. 2 1\2 year old twins and a 5 year old. When I go through WD its obviously extremely difficult to care for them the way they deserve. So I finally decided this is what needs to be done. Anyway, thank you everyone for all of your expierience and input and wish me luck.
Congrats on your success OP. Its a very nasty and expensive habit to kick. Hopefully I'll be right there with you soon.
^^^I honestly think 2 mg is too much....if u r gonna taper starting that high I suggest the very next day u cut it in half and go from there.....do not stay on 2mg fo multiple days...just my opinion.
I also have kids to look after and the way I described above made all that possible...hope it works for someone else...remember jump at sub mils
I also have kids to look after and the way I described above made all that possible...hope it works for someone else...remember jump at sub mils
Thank you for your input ladianios. I only based my plan off of a few pages of research on the site and I'm very open to suggestion. If you really think that 2mg is too high to start on, I think I'll try to make some adjustments. Like i said, the 2mg worked extremely well for me yesterday. So you may be right. Less might have the exact same effect, I just don't really have a lot to experiment with. I still have a little over a week to fine tune my taper before I start. So anybody with suggestions, please feel free to add in. Without you guys, I'd be taking a shot in the dark with a much higher chance of failing.
Not trying to thread-jack either OP. Your thread has just given me the most usable information and I really appreciate it.
Not trying to thread-jack either OP. Your thread has just given me the most usable information and I really appreciate it.
Thanks. I think thats what I'm going to try to do.
I'm going to go over all of this later with my wife. Shes going to be my enforcer / sponsor.
It was her, who I finally admitted to that I have a serious problem. When I told her that I was going to use the subs to get myself clean, she burst into tears, started thanking me, and told me how proud she was. So I think it's safe to say that she is going to make me stick to whatever we decide the plan is going to be.
So Ladianios, please look out for a thank you PM within the next couple of weeks. Hopefully I break through this ugly habit with the help that you guys are giving.
I'm going to go over all of this later with my wife. Shes going to be my enforcer / sponsor.
It was her, who I finally admitted to that I have a serious problem. When I told her that I was going to use the subs to get myself clean, she burst into tears, started thanking me, and told me how proud she was. So I think it's safe to say that she is going to make me stick to whatever we decide the plan is going to be.
So Ladianios, please look out for a thank you PM within the next couple of weeks. Hopefully I break through this ugly habit with the help that you guys are giving.
MICHELLERENEA0919
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2014
- Messages
- 1
I commend you ladianios! I have a similar experience that I am still sitting in AWE OF DID i really just dodge that Bullet??? I did a short term sub taper the same as yourself and I am hoping that I have beat the monster and I am on the uphill slide of my battle. My taper was shorter than any other I have seen, and I must admit that my W/d did get rough for a couple of days. But my fear was I didnt want to take the sub long enough to build up in my system and cause worse w/d after what I thought was the worse part. I hope that this advice could help those coming off opiates and subs! I know some of you will think it is crazy, but trust me I would rather detox from pills than subs any day.
So it begins when I went to Sub dr for a 3 pill a day habit of which he prescribe me 2 8mg strips a day!!!!!!! I didn't know at the time that this was way too much and I was also battling with the guilt of having to take anything. I felt no different than being physically dependent on my pills. What if I lost my job and couldn't afford the subs or somehow couldn't get them for whatever reason. I felt I was in the same exact trap I was trying to get out of! Not to mention the does was way too high which a very negative effect on me...I was sick all the time, body aches, swelling, fluid retention, etc.... because the dose was too high and my dr didn't care because I tried to tell him and his only solution was to RAISE my dose! So needless to say I knew I was in trouble at this point and I had to take control and get myself out of this mess. So I decided hydro w/d was much less than 16mgs a day of sub withdrawal and I knew that subs would take weeks to come out of your system, which I had only been taking the subs for 9 weeks, but realized it was a high does. Just to give you an idea how high, I quit the subs on September 24 and it took me 8 percocet a day to equal the sub tolerance!! Remember I previously stated my initial habit was 3 hydros a day?? so my plan was to use the percs for 2 1/2 weeks because thats when I could a week off work to get myself right. So last Friday I jumped from 6 percs a day (the lowest I could get down to) and knew I had 9 days total to get through it.
So I used a shorter version of your (ladianios) because I was scared to take subs for too long since I was on them 2 1/2 weeks prior.
Day 1 - 1mg sub miday when I couldnt bare it and 1mg sub that night to sleep.
Day 2 - 1mg sub to last through next few days which would have been worst days of opiate w/d
Day 3 - Somas and Xanax and Valium to sedate as much as possible
Day 4 - Same sedation as above
I am now on Day 5 of no opiates and going into 4th day of no subs!!!! MUst admit, I don't feel completely normal because I am exhausted and still a little sweaty/chills, but nothing I cant handle. I feel the same as Ladianos, did I just dodge a major bullet???????????? Sub w/d from 3mgs in two days would have set in by now and I woke up this morning seeing the light at the end of a long dark tunnel!!! I know that my few days of terrible w/d was because I used a VERY short sub taper, but I didn't want to mess up what was out of my system from weeks ago and I was okay dealing with a little shittyness to remind me why I never wna't to do this again. I have detoxed from opiates several times in my life and haven't quit figured out why I keep going back? And would love some imput on PAWS and how to deal with next weeks which will be totally mental? But for now I think I have pulled off the same miracle as Iadianios and I think we are very fortunate to have come through as well as we did. I TRULY BELIEVE IN SHORT TERM SUB TAPER AND I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT AS ALONG TERM BUFFER, YOU ARE ONLY MASKING THE INEVITABLE!
So it begins when I went to Sub dr for a 3 pill a day habit of which he prescribe me 2 8mg strips a day!!!!!!! I didn't know at the time that this was way too much and I was also battling with the guilt of having to take anything. I felt no different than being physically dependent on my pills. What if I lost my job and couldn't afford the subs or somehow couldn't get them for whatever reason. I felt I was in the same exact trap I was trying to get out of! Not to mention the does was way too high which a very negative effect on me...I was sick all the time, body aches, swelling, fluid retention, etc.... because the dose was too high and my dr didn't care because I tried to tell him and his only solution was to RAISE my dose! So needless to say I knew I was in trouble at this point and I had to take control and get myself out of this mess. So I decided hydro w/d was much less than 16mgs a day of sub withdrawal and I knew that subs would take weeks to come out of your system, which I had only been taking the subs for 9 weeks, but realized it was a high does. Just to give you an idea how high, I quit the subs on September 24 and it took me 8 percocet a day to equal the sub tolerance!! Remember I previously stated my initial habit was 3 hydros a day?? so my plan was to use the percs for 2 1/2 weeks because thats when I could a week off work to get myself right. So last Friday I jumped from 6 percs a day (the lowest I could get down to) and knew I had 9 days total to get through it.
So I used a shorter version of your (ladianios) because I was scared to take subs for too long since I was on them 2 1/2 weeks prior.
Day 1 - 1mg sub miday when I couldnt bare it and 1mg sub that night to sleep.
Day 2 - 1mg sub to last through next few days which would have been worst days of opiate w/d
Day 3 - Somas and Xanax and Valium to sedate as much as possible
Day 4 - Same sedation as above
I am now on Day 5 of no opiates and going into 4th day of no subs!!!! MUst admit, I don't feel completely normal because I am exhausted and still a little sweaty/chills, but nothing I cant handle. I feel the same as Ladianos, did I just dodge a major bullet???????????? Sub w/d from 3mgs in two days would have set in by now and I woke up this morning seeing the light at the end of a long dark tunnel!!! I know that my few days of terrible w/d was because I used a VERY short sub taper, but I didn't want to mess up what was out of my system from weeks ago and I was okay dealing with a little shittyness to remind me why I never wna't to do this again. I have detoxed from opiates several times in my life and haven't quit figured out why I keep going back? And would love some imput on PAWS and how to deal with next weeks which will be totally mental? But for now I think I have pulled off the same miracle as Iadianios and I think we are very fortunate to have come through as well as we did. I TRULY BELIEVE IN SHORT TERM SUB TAPER AND I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT AS ALONG TERM BUFFER, YOU ARE ONLY MASKING THE INEVITABLE!
mscudery
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2014
- Messages
- 4
[tl; dr unless Future You is doing a taper/wd & is too polite to whine about well-meant verbosity]
There may be a LOT to this remark. Because, expecting & preparing for a bout of profound misery is a damn fine way to do a taper of anything. If you've been imagining a Jaws-of-Hell taper--& of course you have; that's why you didn't taper sooner :D-- whatever transpires in reality will seem trifling. But it's a terrific idea to save that list of MyTop5MiseriesoFWD from mental RAM to disc & check it against Un/NaturalPreventives&Remedies.
Yes, it's usually healthier to aim at the "Natural" side of the aisle, with a couple of the safer otc/Rx standbys. Managing a taper with benzos, lattes, & "lighter" opiates is flirting with Future You--where FY is saying thru gritted teeth, "sooo, I take about 6mg xanax every day, have a drink or two at night... But it's okay! I don't have nightmares about ppl finding my tell-tale 'meds' like I did on subs/street-doc". Namaste, Alt-Future You. Btw, MJ users--not where I live, so this is pure speculation--might find their herb knocks out the harshest sub/dope wd woes (drugcrime is a gateway; "gateway drug" is a trope with the lame, ugly-ass word "gateway" in it).
My methadone taper was a decided "let down" (like the program... tho TBF, methadone itself turned my life 'round so quickly I gasped a few times). Stocked up on phenylalanine/tyrosine for depression, kava & valerian for stress/jangly nerves, ginsengs, & other nutritional supplements for energy, ibuprofen & benadryl (for everything!), &... felt great. Didn't even bother picking up my last measly 2-1mg bottles. Shoulda kept taking those supplements afterward. (um... amid all the scaremongering to keep us in the mmtp program, nobody mentioned a post-wd syndrome--where you feel "great"--until the week you find yourself chasing phantom bags in neighborhoods where friends died while Clinton was prez. Maybe the post-wd thingie was a Thing back 2003. if you don't know it exists, hard to research. So; whoopsie
).
Quick-tapered from subs just a few weeks ago (see? Whoops!). Being a dedicated wuss, was sure a quick-taper/wd from subs would be the WORST. I worked down to 8mg out of sheer distaste for sub utex/oxone/'middle class pillheads have a thing about mmtp, feel the reckitt-benckiser
, mmkay?'. At the 4mg point I just kept halving the subutape over the course of 5 days.
Kanna might have helped taper wds, & kratom did help a bit later, for pain (more than the bupe ever did x( ). Stopped benzos, cymbalta, & adderall as well over the past month--all legit Rx--taking fewer tablets on fewer days, anticipating convulsions!/ an ER trip!/etc. Underwhelming. Expecting the Worst is not even ~ Being Defeatist. NB I have no willpower, have issues that make opiates a logical choice for self-medication, & all my genetic heritage does is predispose one toward taking a bleak, grim-humored view of the future: "it'll be torture. Kinda funny, tho..." Go figure. & cheers to those starting 2015 by dropping some unwanted luggage. Verbiage taper, starting...
There may be a LOT to this remark. Because, expecting & preparing for a bout of profound misery is a damn fine way to do a taper of anything. If you've been imagining a Jaws-of-Hell taper--& of course you have; that's why you didn't taper sooner :D-- whatever transpires in reality will seem trifling. But it's a terrific idea to save that list of MyTop5MiseriesoFWD from mental RAM to disc & check it against Un/NaturalPreventives&Remedies.
Yes, it's usually healthier to aim at the "Natural" side of the aisle, with a couple of the safer otc/Rx standbys. Managing a taper with benzos, lattes, & "lighter" opiates is flirting with Future You--where FY is saying thru gritted teeth, "sooo, I take about 6mg xanax every day, have a drink or two at night... But it's okay! I don't have nightmares about ppl finding my tell-tale 'meds' like I did on subs/street-doc". Namaste, Alt-Future You. Btw, MJ users--not where I live, so this is pure speculation--might find their herb knocks out the harshest sub/dope wd woes (drugcrime is a gateway; "gateway drug" is a trope with the lame, ugly-ass word "gateway" in it).
My methadone taper was a decided "let down" (like the program... tho TBF, methadone itself turned my life 'round so quickly I gasped a few times). Stocked up on phenylalanine/tyrosine for depression, kava & valerian for stress/jangly nerves, ginsengs, & other nutritional supplements for energy, ibuprofen & benadryl (for everything!), &... felt great. Didn't even bother picking up my last measly 2-1mg bottles. Shoulda kept taking those supplements afterward. (um... amid all the scaremongering to keep us in the mmtp program, nobody mentioned a post-wd syndrome--where you feel "great"--until the week you find yourself chasing phantom bags in neighborhoods where friends died while Clinton was prez. Maybe the post-wd thingie was a Thing back 2003. if you don't know it exists, hard to research. So; whoopsie
). Quick-tapered from subs just a few weeks ago (see? Whoops!). Being a dedicated wuss, was sure a quick-taper/wd from subs would be the WORST. I worked down to 8mg out of sheer distaste for sub utex/oxone/'middle class pillheads have a thing about mmtp, feel the reckitt-benckiser
, mmkay?'. At the 4mg point I just kept halving the subutape over the course of 5 days. Kanna might have helped taper wds, & kratom did help a bit later, for pain (more than the bupe ever did x( ). Stopped benzos, cymbalta, & adderall as well over the past month--all legit Rx--taking fewer tablets on fewer days, anticipating convulsions!/ an ER trip!/etc. Underwhelming. Expecting the Worst is not even ~ Being Defeatist. NB I have no willpower, have issues that make opiates a logical choice for self-medication, & all my genetic heritage does is predispose one toward taking a bleak, grim-humored view of the future: "it'll be torture. Kinda funny, tho..." Go figure. & cheers to those starting 2015 by dropping some unwanted luggage. Verbiage taper, starting...
mscudery
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2014
- Messages
- 4
:D bwah! Addictionologists are brilliant, aren't they? The original standard dose for subutexoxone junky treatment was 32mg--the Dr who Rxed that dose had headed a huge urban mmtp system. Except, at that go-round all I was taking was hydro/dihydo. And, oh-yeah, according to the earlier patient-info, miscreants could be titrated up to 64mg. True story. Reckitt-b did finally update their old sub bibles, but geez, you couldn't take a full day's dose w/o getting a brutal headache. Which made it easy for my proactive Subconscious to wait til I wasn't looking, & start a sneaky, super-harsh taper... dropping by sick self from 32 to <16mg in a month. (
Can you sell a Subconscious on craigs-list?)Maintenance with whatever works for you is fine, if that is the way that best gives you peace of mind (hey; if bupe had worked for me I'd still be on it), but if it feels healthier or more freeing to go to a 0-opiate existence, a tapered wd is only as awful as you want it to be. It's great to see how many people are leaving subs--but scary to hear that addictionology still wallows in a gaping abyss of confusion re appropriate bupe dosing.