Rape issue

Onoe

Onoe

Bluelighter
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
456
A friend of mine was recently raped, she is 15 years; and the man is 17..

She was drinking in a house with the guy and a few other female "friends".
While she was intoxicated the man offered her 3 bars of xanax. (she had never done any drugs like alprazolam before.) he took her to a room (she blacked out and doesnt remember walking there.) and he told her he had a condom, made his move and did what he wanted to with her while she was under the influence of alcohol and 3 bars of xanax.

She does noy know how to take action, she is 15; and wants to avoid going to court..
The man who raped her is also a drug dealer.
 
If this is true,it's to late now, it's her word against his, she should have went and got rape tested when she woke up, did anyone else there no what was going on and did nothing, i hate fucking rape worse then anything, but it might be to late to prove anything. She don't want to goto court, there would have been ways around if she would have got a rape kit, they would also have tested for the xanax too., so he would have got hit with that too. I feel very sorry for your friend, but she should have taken immed. action.
 
That's just plain WRONG. That's the kind of stuff we have laws for, to protect people from being taken advantage of against their will. She should call the police and demand the scum be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
 
If she wants to take legal action she's going to have to prepare to go to court. A criminal defendant's constitutional right to confrontation requires the ability to directly confront the accuser in court, don't think for a minute that an intoxication child rape type case isn't going to be contested, at a preliminary hearing at the very least. Some states make allowances for small children not to be directly faced by a sex assault defendant, but I highly doubt a 15 year old is going to be permitted to testify by remote video conference.
 
She has three choices.

1) do nothing
2) go to court
3) vigilante justice
 
if a woman has been sexually assaulted, then she should call the cops. whether or not she wants to confront the criminal in court and whether going to court is even necessary are things to be determined at a later date.

if she will not do this right now, then as mentioned it is very important for her to speak with someone who can help her look out for her well being. there are many resources out there. here is one organization's (RAINN) contact info...

online hotline: http://apps.rainn.org/ohl-bridge/
phone number: 1.888.656.HOPE
 
There are witnesses, not people who actually saw the rape take place; but were in the same house and knew of this going on.
 
There are a variety of means available for gathering incriminating evidence beyond a physical examination of the victim.

Ultimately this is a choice for your friend. As Johnny said, she should probably talk to someone about it.

Personally, I hope that she's able to take some action, as this strikes me as the kind of act the perpetrator would repeat. She should keep in mind that there is a CIVIL side to this as well. That is, the state may opt to press criminal charges based on the evidence it gathers, but that she herself, presumably with an attorney, can move forward with a lawsuit, and gather and present evidence, and collect damages, as well.

However, again, this is her call. It is a mistake to assume the options for investigation and enforcement are foreclosed, though.
 
Onoe said:
There are witnesses, not people who actually saw the rape take place; but were in the same house and knew of this going on.
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And no one tried to stop him? What the fuck is wrong with people.
 
weside said:
If this is true,it's to late now, it's her word against his, she should have went and got rape tested when she woke up, did anyone else there no what was going on and did nothing, i hate fucking rape worse then anything, but it might be to late to prove anything. She don't want to goto court, there would have been ways around if she would have got a rape kit, they would also have tested for the xanax too., so he would have got hit with that too. I feel very sorry for your friend, but she should have taken immed. action.
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Please do not say this. Evidence might be slim, but she can still testify. Many people don't think immediately after "Oh lets go get a rape kit done!" There are cases where girls can win without physical evidence. It is never too late to prove a rape happened.

She should go to the police, but then she MUST got get some counseling. She also needs to be tested for STDs and pregnancy. My heartfelt wishes go out to her. My sister was raped, she never went after the person, but an innocent child was born from the rape but given to a wonderful family. But she suffered in silence, don't let your friend do the same, there are resources out there to help her speak up.
 
i don't mean to sound antagonistic, but your friend should have used better judgment. that's not to say that the guy wasn't in the wrong, but who's to say that was his intention? maybe he was under the influence himself and naive about what could ensue later? if she knowingly accepted the drugs, then i would think that would make her liable unless she could prove that the sex was forced and not consensual. with no witnesses to the "rape" itself, that could be a difficult thing to do.

that's just my take on it. i apologize if i sound insensitive... that's not my intention. i just think it's kind of a gray area.
 
I hate to sound rude here too but I think ryan makes a good point.

I dont condone what this guy did, at all by any means. However both being teenagers I think there could be a lot of extenuating circumstances. I mean they are both minors, and I somewhat doubt his intention was to "rape" somebody. Although I do consider sex without sober (or at least functional) consent to be rather bad.

I think her case is really hard to push if she didnt resist the acts, and nobody saw her attempting to resist. Because its not really rape legally speaking without some kind of fight involved.

Its really sad and I'm sorry to hear about it. But 15 year olds probably shouldnt be taking xanax with strangers especially with no drug experience.

Its a little of both here.
 
She's 15 freaking years old. She has no experience. Does that mean someone else should be able to rape her just because he can say that she agreed to it and get away with it?

Let's say a blind person was on the street and had cashed her social security check - and had forgotten to push the money deep down in her purse. It was sticking out. She should know better by that time that there are people about who will take advantage of her. Does that mean that the thief who grabs her money from her purse and runs off is any less guilty of theft?

What about someone who is stopped on the freeway at night because of a flat tire, and flags down a passing car. He should know that he should drive his car off the freeway to a well-lighted area even if it means hurting his tire. But he trusts in his fellow man. A bad dude comes along and beats and robs him. Was the robber any less guilty because he had an easy target?

In both those examples, the victim is an adult. Here, the victim was a child. This is IN NO WAY her fault.
 
Unfortunately, this is a complex case (thanks, Mr. Obvious).

1. My initial take is the girl's intent that evening--drinking and taking 6mg of Xanax--was to get extremely inebriated. Unless she was forced to consume those intoxicants, I don't think anyone can claim otherwise regarding her intent.

2. People do all sorts of things while extremely inebriated: jump off cliffs (personal experience here), hit people with cars, and even have sex with people they don't know. The 17-year-old, in this case also a child, may have been equally inebriated and therefore equally capable of doing a stupid thing he regretted later (or perhaps not--only he knows for sure).

3. To Nib: the whole party-full of people may have been inebriated, and may not have known what was going on. Even if they did, their lack of judgment relative to intoxication may have prevented them from doing the right thing.


In my non-lawyer, non-legally-trained opinion, it will be almost impossible to get a rape or otherwise sexually-based assault charge to stick. But I could very well be wrong.
 
With all due respect, it is not alright to blame the victim for an alleged sexual assault.

The fact that a victim may have been stoned, drunk, drugged, passed out, or asleep is never a legal defense to unconsensual sexual contact with that person. I'm assuming the person most involved with this is not reading this thread. Regardless, I hope she has gotten some kind of outside support by this point.

Also, moralizing or judging is not appropriate here, even if we knew all the facts of what took place (which we clearly do not). Someone posted a specific set of facts, asking for help. The goal is not to say which facts are true or false. The goal is to answer the question in the best interest of the person posting.
 
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Banquo said:
With all due respect, it is not alright to blame the victim for an alleged sexual assault.

The fact that a victim may have been stoned, drunk, drugged, passed out, or asleep is never a legal defense to unconsensual sexual contact with that person. I'm assuming the person most involved with this is not reading this thread. Regardless, I hope she has gotten some kind of outside support by this point.

Also, moralizing or judging is not appropriate here, even if we knew all the facts of what took place (which we clearly do not). Someone posted a specific set of facts, asking for help. The goal is not to say which facts are true or false. The goal is to answer the question in the best interest of the person posting.
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+1.

You guys saying that the victim of a sexual assault "shouldn't have been in that situation in the first place" or whatever should be ashamed of yourselves.

The best thing the girl can do is talk to someone about it that can take it to the appropriate channels to make sure the purp is questioned, and incriminates himself, or has LEO eye on him.
 
Banquo said:
With all due respect, it is not alright to blame the victim for an alleged sexual assault.

The fact that a victim may have been stoned, drunk, drugged, passed out, or asleep is never a legal defense to unconsensual sexual contact with that person. I'm assuming the person most involved with this is not reading this thread. Regardless, I hope she has gotten some kind of outside support by this point.
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But being CONSENSUALLY stoned, drunk, or drugged and showing consent (and later realizing what happened) is a different story. (Passed out or asleep is a different story, as consent cannot be obtained at all. Inebriated consent is still consent - so long as the state of inebriation was voluntarily entered.)
Legally there are only a few things to consider; "Was she consious during the sex?" (blacked out - was she passed out, or just doesn't remember?) and
"Was it consensual at the time?" - regardless if that consent was acquired through personal choice, or personal choice to use drugs/alcohol eliminating inhibitions one has while sober and reducing one's reasoning abilities.

I'm backing Ryan in this one - if she consented to the drug use, and had sex willingly on drugs, even though she would not have willingly had sex sober (and realized she made a mistake after sobering up), she did consent and this wasn't rape.
Revoking consent after sobering up from a voluntarily entered altered state of mind doesn't make the issue "rape" at the time it happened.
As for giving her the drugs, that's a different story - but the minor in possession charges for the alcohol aren't going to help her case any... presuming she brings one.

There are 2 questions that need answered; Did she take the drugs willingly, and did she consent to have sex at the time it happened. If both are answered affirmatively, the act itself was not rape.
Morally there are other considerations, but they aren't legal considerations.
If consensual drug/alcohol use doesn't apply to minors, then I'm not sure about that, but since they were both minors, I don't see how it should be different than 2 adults.

Legally, the alcohol and drug things are a separate issue, and bringing this case to court could lead to many unintended consequences as both parties are guilty of drug crimes and were minors in possession of alcohol.
While it isn't right to blame the victim, she could end up in serious legal trouble bringing this case to court...
Which invalidates any claim of the state that the drug laws serve to protect anyone.

I'll second the counseling thing, and tack on drug counseling as something to consider as well.
Once in a while alcohol and drug use is ok (from a completely moral perspective - legally, not so much) - but completely losing yourself due to drug use and ending up in these kinds of situations is something that should be seriously considered as having abuse potential.
The xanex was a first - what about drinking? Is this habitual behavior, or a one-off thing that she never should have been involved in?
 
^ The point you make about mutual, albeit inebriated consent, is one I forgot to make in my previous post. There may actually be no "victims."

If the female said "yeah, sure!" without being coerced and subsequently decided it was a bad idea in the morning, then bad judgment--and not a crime--occurred.

The problem here is that it's almost impossible for anyone except for the two parties involved to know what occurred for certain, and if that isn't a basis for reasonable doubt, I don't know what is.
 
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