Ran out my oxycodone rx early and used methadone again. Just 10mg twice on one day, want to stop.

[Motoguemse]

Hi a few months ago I posted about how I had run out of my oxycodone rx early. I take them for lifelong headaches and I’ve developed tolerance and have run out early a few times over the past several months. My doctor can’t increase the number of tabs I take because Im already over the states limit on morphine equiv dose per day and will likely have to tapered down to the limit at some time. A few months ago when I ran out early I discovered I had some methadone I used to take and decided to use it to bridge the gap to when I could get my rx filled again. Oxycodone wd isn’t really hard but the cold this time of year is what kills me. I have Lyrica, clonidine and Valium if needed. Everything went fine with resuming my oxycodone rx when it could be filled again. I had limited my daily dose of methadone to 20mg so it wasn’t messing me up or anything.

This month I ran out early again. I have around a week until it can be refilled and it is still cold here. Yesterday I took 10mg methadone in the am and 10mg in the pm. Overnight I changed my mind and decided I don’t want to do this. Will these two doses doom me to 10 weeks of withdrawal? Obviously I get the oxycodone refilled in a week so I’d be ok then, but is this entire week going to be wrecked if I stop this now? I’ve gone thru methadone wd before and it was the worst experience of my life other than the deaths of family members. I suppose if its going to be awful ill continue taking as small a dose as possible until my refill date.

I am going to take Lyrica and clonidine today and see how it goes, but wanted to know if anyone knew the answer. Whether I end up stopping or continuing until my next refill, I am going to dispose of these methadone tabs bc even though I hate how they make me feel, they beat the cold that creeps up my legs even after the three or four days of acute oxycodone withdrawal are over.

Edit: i just made a quick spreadsheet and assuming I took the doses 12 hours apart, and 24 hour half life, and 12 hr 3/4 life, I’ll still have roughly .5mg in my system on Wednesday PM, and I only took it twice. Imagine if I took it for 3 or more days, all the stacked up half lives. All opinions welcome, but I suspect a week or more of misery. It might be wisest to just take as low an amount as possible until my refill date but all opinions welcome.

Thanks

 

[daturetard]

The only real way to know is to cold turkey for a day. If you've experienced the methadone wd you might be able to tell the difference between it and oxy wd. If you really want to stop, hide the pills and try not to think about them. If its really bad try kratom. Good luck

 

[OceansState]

I read the post and the only reason you seem to give for not taking the methadone is you just dont want to. Is there another reason you dont want to take the methadone?

You mention bridging the oxy script with methadone previously and you say it went fine.

If it were me id rather take something so I'm not withdrawaling between scripts. But when you get your next oxy script maybe divide the pills up, separate them into weeks so you can more easily notice if you are taking more than you should be.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @Motoguemse

I understand where you're confusion is coming from. There are some finer points to Opioid dependence that are a little bit complex. As a chronic user of Opioids, I'm guessing you're familiar with what we call the "Kindling Effect" - basically each time a person becomes dependent upon Opioids, withdraws and then resumes their habit, that tolerance and dependence will come on more quickly and the withdrawal is proportionately more severe. This happens, definitely.

What you're thinking about the Methadone is not exactly how it works. People talk a lot about how torturous Methadone is due to the length of the withdrawal. I've withdrawn from both Heroin and Methadone, both on separate occasions. My opinion after these experiences is that one is not better or worse than the other. Heroin, or in your case, Oxycodone produces a shorter, more intense withdrawal, while Methadone produces a more mild, but longer-lasting withdrawal. I believe you ultimately are paying back the same debt, so to speak. Like in other situations in life, some people will prefer ripping the bandaid off and some prefer doing it slowly. That's a poor analogy, as we all know ripping off the bandaid is better, but you get my point.

I just think a lot of the "fear" that people have for Methadone is a little bit misplaced. The process is just different for each, for instance, sleep deprivation is a more serious concern when withdrawing from Methadone. They require different approaches in some ways, though you are still going to expereince a net amount of pain. This is my experience.

Now, you won't suddenly find yourself dependent upon Methadone and its pharmacokinetics after taking it a few times. Even for a week, you're not likely to have to deal with a significantly different withdrawal syndrome. If you stopped taking Oxycodone and were only taking Methadone for a month or so, you're going to start dealing with those pharmacokinetics more and more.

It's easier to look at your tolerance and dependence as a spectrum. You total Opioid intake is going to have much more impact on your experience than the specific Opioid that you're taking. Using it in this stop-gap manner isn't going to cause that.

 

[Motoguemse]

Hi everyone, I appreciate your responses. Just to let you know I ultimately decided to bridge the gap again with the methadone. I’ve been taking 10mg every 18 hours or so, so not much. The reason why I was hesitant and changed my mind initially was because of these opioid shortages that are taking place in the US - I don’t want this month to be the month my pharmacy can’t order my script. As soon as I get this oxycodone rx filled I’m going to dispose of the methadone so I don’t even have this as a choice again. I stopped taking the prescribed methadone seven or eight years ago and thought I had disposed of it all long ago. I was doing some cleaning recently and found a giant bottle of tablets, which given my aversion to going thru withdrawal when it’s cold out, I decided to use. However in the future I won’t have that option as I’m going to get rid of them. I’m just going to have to be more judicious when it comes to taking the oxycodone in order to make the script last. I ran out way too early this month and I can’t let that happen again. Changing seasons are terrible for the headaches I get and it’s springtime here, hasn’t been great. Once again I appreciate all of the advice and Keif thanks for the detailed explanation. Personally I’ve been through oxycodone withdrawal lots of times but I also have lyrica, clonidine and a benzo. I’ve also gone thru the methadone once and it was brutal for me but then again I jumped from a high dose. If possible I want to totally avoid methadone withdrawal again. Take care everyone.

 

[daturetard]

Hi everyone, I appreciate your responses. Just to let you know I ultimately decided to bridge the gap again with the methadone. I’ve been taking 10mg every 18 hours or so, so not much. The reason why I was hesitant and changed my mind initially was because of these opioid shortages that are taking place in the US - I don’t want this month to be the month my pharmacy can’t order my script. As soon as I get this oxycodone rx filled I’m going to dispose of the methadone so I don’t even have this as a choice again. I stopped taking the prescribed methadone seven or eight years ago and thought I had disposed of it all long ago. I was doing some cleaning recently and found a giant bottle of tablets, which given my aversion to going thru withdrawal when it’s cold out, I decided to use. However in the future I won’t have that option as I’m going to get rid of them. I’m just going to have to be more judicious when it comes to taking the oxycodone in order to make the script last. I ran out way too early this month and I can’t let that happen again. Changing seasons are terrible for the headaches I get and it’s springtime here, hasn’t been great. Once again I appreciate all of the advice and Keif thanks for the detailed explanation. Personally I’ve been through oxycodone withdrawal lots of times but I also have lyrica, clonidine and a benzo. I’ve also gone thru the methadone once and it was brutal for me but then again I jumped from a high dose. If possible I want to totally avoid methadone withdrawal again. Take care everyone.

Good on you. Would not catch me dead throwing out anything that has opioid activities

 

[Keif' Richards]

I wasn't aware that there was a shortage of pharmaceutical Opioids. I've been through this recently with stimulant medications. I know it's a national issue. I often think that it's inhumane for me to go without this medication I've become accustomed to. I'm getting a reality check that I'm forgetting to be grateful now. A surprise withdrawal from Opioids is totally unacceptable. If they don't have, say 30mg Oxycodone tablets, the pharmacist should be able to make the call and give you the same dosage in another dosage form. This isn't the case as a lot of us know. It typically requires calling the doctor, having the doctor write a new prescription etc, which depending on your provider, can take a day or two.

Given the scarce nature of Opioids, even regardless of this alleged shortage, I don't know that it's the best idea to just get rid of these Methadone tablets. Is it not possible to give them to another person to hold for you? You can explain to them your situation and give them strict orders of how and when to give them back to you. For me, the person that held my narcotics for me while I worked on self-control was my Mother. It should be a trusted person, as for instance, my Mother would see right through me if I were trying to do anything that wasn't in my best interest.

I don' want to get in the way of your progress. I know you have good intentions here. I just don't want you to get rid of something that is essentially priceless if there is reason to keep it.

 

[Motoguemse]

You bring up a good point. Besides the methadone I’ve been using, somewhere here there’s a full bottle of 900 10mg methadone tablets. I don’t know where it is but I have some cleaning to do. I also have most of the suboxone I took to get off of the methadone. Might be smart to hang on to it. I’ll have to think about the best way. I’m able to handle oxycodone wd in the summer just fine. I do have issues doing it in the winter. I can do it for a few days but it seems endless if it’s longer.

I know I’m developing tolerance and my pain doctor wanted to switch me to dilaudid like he’s done in the past. 4mg iirc. The pharmacy can only get 2mg and the pharmacist said most insurance companies are being hard about this now and won’t let a script with twice as many 2mg tabs be filled. The other option was morphine but it was unavailable.

The dea claims this is fallout from the Sackler/Purdue Pharma lawsuit but from what I understand it’s really because the dea has restricted the amount of ingredients allocated to manufacturers 6 quarters in a row. I looked at the deas website and it says otherwise but I don’t believe them. I cornered a dea agent who was the best man at a wedding I had to go to last spring and asked him why do this to law abiding people when 100k people a year die of fentanyl and he said they can’t stop the fentanyl bc demand is so high. I hate to be a cynic but to me it could be construed that they are doing this so people like me - and I’ve never been a drain on society but many people with pain understandably need help and I know im lucky I don’t - so people like me have to go to the streets, where it’s basically legal to buy drugs, and risk death. I think they want people like me to die. I can’t find another conclusion that makes sense.

 

[Keif' Richards]

The image of you cornering a DEA agent at a wedding to ask him where the Opiates are tickled me greatly. You've got more balls than ol' Keif.

 

[OceansState]

I personally would not toss things out unless I knew for a fact i would never need them again. When i finally stopped drinking I waited until i was done and off to go through and clean house of any alcohol. When i was tapering recently off my substance of choice I think it made it easier knowing I had a stash just in case the withdrawals got so bad. i think it takes alot of the stress off, fearing withdrawaling then not having anything, then my mind starts to wander on how I will go out and get more.

 

[Motoguemse]

The image of you cornering a DEA agent at a wedding to ask him where the Opiates are tickled me greatly. You've got more balls than ol' Keif.

Lol there was no peril involved as he was my first cousins best friend, grew up across the street from each other. When we all arrived my aunt and uncle proudly introduced him to me and I made a funny face, which he must have noticed bc he said “No Im one of the good guys.” I said “Looks like you’re the apex predator here…..unless there’s a U.S. attorney here too.” He called his gf over, introduced me to her. US attorney. When I talked to him about the shortages and street drugs, she was there too. Both gave me the run around. We know that doctors are low hanging fruit for these people, justify their budgets.

BTW my story has a happy ending as my script was filled. I hate the insecurity this situation has caused though. I was never this way before, but the last year I am constantly pestering the pharmacist to make sure he has enough on hand. Also my brother has taken custody of my left over suboxone and methadone. Locked them up at his house.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Lol there was no peril involved as he was my first cousins best friend, grew up across the street from each other. When we all arrived my aunt and uncle proudly introduced him to me and I made a funny face, which he must have noticed bc he said “No Im one of the good guys.” I said “Looks like you’re the apex predator here…..unless there’s a U.S. attorney here too.” He called his gf over, introduced me to her. US attorney. When I talked to him about the shortages and street drugs, she was there too. Both gave me the run around. We know that doctors are low hanging fruit for these people, justify their budgets.

BTW my story has a happy ending as my script was filled. I hate the insecurity this situation has caused though. I was never this way before, but the last year I am constantly pestering the pharmacist to make sure he has enough on hand. Also my brother has taken custody of my left over suboxone and methadone. Locked them up at his house.

Haha, good story. My aunt remarried to a State Police Homicide Investigator. He wasn't a huge deal, but he was the top guy in his county and he caught a serial killer at one time (this dude who would pick up truck stop prostitutes and had a torture chamber in the sleeper cab of his rig, fucked up). When I was 19, I ended up staying with him and my Aunt for a few months. He just constantly found my pipes, my alcohol, it didn't matter where it was or how it was hidden. He was cool though. He only seemed to care about murder. It was still a strange relationship, a drug addict and a state cop.

I'm really stoked to here you gave the medication to someone you trust. Now you have the best of both worlds. You can't misuse it easily and you also have it available for a rainy day if needed. Good for you!