Question for people who've heavily abused mdma

[Jackie Chan]

Just to give some background, I've been using mdma for a while, since I was in high school and I'm in my early 20s now. At one point I would roll few times a week taking atleast 2 capsules of molly each time and this heavy use went on for a few months.

I haven't taken any mdma in around 6 months and the depression, depersonalization and anxiety I've been feeling as a result of overuse is practically gone now. I'm still little depressed and anxious at times but I'd say I felt like that even before I started taking mdma.

The reason for this thread is I've been experiencing a very tight uncomfortable feeling around the front part of my brain since around beginning of this year. When I take any recreational drug like kratom, oxycodone, alcohol or weed that tight uncomfortable feeling starts to go away (maybe I just not noticing it when I'm high?) but when the drug wears off it comes back again sometimes getting worse.

Best way I can describe it is feels like when you do something to tense up a muscle, like lifting weights, your muscle compresses and feels tight, well just imagine that feeling in your brain.

piracetam affects it a little, and when I take 5 htp it gets more worse. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with serotonin in my brain because of the fact that 5htp makes it worse, but like I said overall aside from this uncomfortable feeling, I feel pretty good. Has anyone who abused mdma pretty heavily felt something like this? Does it ever go away or am I stuck with this?

 

[cryptix420]

Perhaps an aneurism?

Idk man, maybe you should see a doctor :/

 

[somedud]

It's called head pressures man, Bluelight search it.

First Bad Comedown has a lot of posts explaining and regarding it, I use to get it all the time too, it's from MDMA (ab)use.

 

[socalthizzn]

You havnt touched mdma in 6 months?

 

[fernsal1]

like somedude said its head pressure read through First Bad Comdown posts...
i would also say taking 5htp more than 3 days in a row does more bad than good. it causes overstimulation in dopamine which causes anxiety.

 

[Jackie Chan]

You havnt touched mdma in 6 months?

No.

 

[Jackie Chan]

It's called head pressures man, Bluelight search it.

First Bad Comedown has a lot of posts explaining and regarding it, I use to get it all the time too, it's from MDMA (ab)use.

Ah, thanks. In your case how long did it take to go away?

 

[somedud]

^ the first 3-7 months. I had a mix of brain zaps and head pressure. It never went away until I rolled again strangely enough? I'd probably still have them now if I didn't, so it's for me to say haha

Exercise will help greatly

 

[DirtyMexican]

^ the first 3-7 months. I had a mix of brain zaps and head pressure. It never went away until I rolled again strangely enough? I'd probably still have them now if I didn't, so it's for me to say haha

Exercise will help greatly

20 min of cardio in the mornings.

30 min of cardio at nights + lifting (some majical weird thing happens when I lift and do cardio after a rush:D )

Lift only 4 days a week

Anabolic steroid usage also helped. 1000mg of testosterone cypionate a week.

No head pressure after the 3rd week.

 

[chitown rollin]

I know exactly what you're feeling and it will go away man. I had this for longer than 6 months after I stopped rolling and had similar patterns of abuse as you (twice a week, 4-6 pills at a time, for about three months give or take). For a while I just thought it was migraine headaches not associated with MDMA use and just didn't think about it. It is better to either not think about it or realize that it will eventually subside. I have rolled since then many times at a much less frequent pace and have not suffered any of these 'head pressures'. Hang in there and PM me if you want.

 

[eLW]

Stop ignoring yourself - go to a doctor, its best what we can say here.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Doctors cannot help.
A brain scan is the only tool they have for this, and they are not cheap.
A neurologist that has experience with MDMA is the only kind of 'doctor' that will know anything about this. There is no treatment for recovery, other than abstinence from drugs and time.

Research has shown that MDMA users often experience decreases in blood flow to different regions of the brain. Some users will then experience increases. This is less common, but much more serious.

Increases are associated with reported symptoms, such as anxiety.
It is also believed to be a definitive marker of toxicity.
It can last for many months in some users, sometimes over a year.
Most heavy users that report anxiety/depression also claim that psychological recovery takes between 1-2 years. There seems to be a direct correlation.

It is agreed upon by the scientific community that MDMA 're-wires' the brain.
It is the minimum definition of toxicity.
There is no debate about this, at all.
The long-term implications are all that is still in debate.

To be more precise, 'MDMA causes a long-lasting/permanent re-organization of the ascending axonal structure'.

This means that the fiber-like ends of the serotonin network are more fragile, and when they are damaged, the network must replace these lost receptors elsewhere, often closer to the limbic system and brainstem. Some receptors will re-establish in the distant regions, but in abnormal patterns.

Fortunately for us, this process does not normally involve 'gliosis' which is a type of scar tissue formation that is common with other types of brain damage. This may be why substantial recovery is possible in the first place.

Serotonin, regardless of MDMA, has a profound effect upon blood distribution in the brain.

The serotonin system is among the most complex of all nerve systems in biology, it is also the connection between your intestines and your brain.

This 'brain-gut' connection is injecting serotonin into your brainstem, but you no longer have enough receptor cites, thanks to the MDMA. This wreaks havoc upon the endocrine system, at least in users that experience major anxiety. This is not surprising, as MDMA is known to cause a massive release of cortisol by manipulation of certain pathways in the brain. If these pathways are damaged, more cortisol appears to be the prescription.
Taking supplements like 5-HTP will increase symptoms because the network of nerves does not need to be hurried along by more serotonin.

The brain itself does not feel pain, but the nerves on the face and scalp can register this localized pressure. I have described it as a migraine that moves around, depending on the hour or day. Eating lots of heavy food, especially several days in a row, tends to worsen my head-pressure.

'Brain-zaps' are considered to be more violent but much quicker. I have had very few of these, but others have them exclusively. Even ex-SSRI users have experienced this phenomena.

Note - former MDMA users have died of strokes many months after abstinence. This is due to the re-wiring process, which is playing a tug-of-war with capillaries in the brain. Take care of yourself, especially if you feel sudden increases in pressure. This is rare, but needs to be understood. Rapid cooling of body temperature and aspirin are the best treatments in the event of a stroke.

Brain scans reveal this abnormal blood flow.
Good news - they also show that blood distribution eventually returns to normal!
Scientists are confused by this, because serotonin re-innervation has been proven to be abnormal, especially in the brain regions that are distant from the brainstem. How could blood flow normalize if serotonin does not?

It is believed that other neurotransmitter systems are being modified to compensate, although this is still not established.

One thing that research has shown is that the vast majority of MDMA users DO eventually recover from clinical symptoms. Although re-innervation patterns are known to be abnormal, blood flow IS restored. Even among heavy users, this is the trend. So, NO this will not be permanent.
The odds are overwhelmingly in your favor.

Most former MDMA users that experienced 'toxicity' eventually act like regular people. Tests reveal only modest cognitive deficits. However, these individuals continue to display an altered endocrine response to serotonin agonists, such as MDMA....even after 2.5 years of abstinence.
This means that the pathways that mediate the powerful response to the drug may be forever changed. This could explain why so many users advocate Piracetam to restore the 'magic'.

Research that follows these people for longer periods of time is needed. Since this research tests the pathways directly, this is considered to be a simpler and more accurate test of serotonin function. There is reason to suspect that more prolonged abstinence will result in greater restoration.

I strongly suggest waiting at least two years from your last use to roll again.
Not only will you be unlikely to roll, but you may experience an exaggerated comedown.

Exercise and time are the only things that can heal you.
Keep away from the MDMA, too.
You have no business with it ANYtime soon.

Good luck.

 

[whataboutheforests]

yeah this happened to me to, but not as bad. Went away in about 2 weeks. I stopped using mdma for a couple months and now I only roll once a month and I never have any side effects except for depression the week after.

 

[Jackie Chan]

Thanks for the responses, it's good to know other people have experienced this and it will eventually go away.

I went back and read some of fistbadcomedown's older posts, sheds light on some of the things I've been experiencing

Thanks

 

[trancerage]

I kind of feel like that someitmes after a hard weekend...

IT sucks, but running and doing exercise is takes all away... 5 kilometros, follow by 30 minutes of rolling (rolling=wrestling in brazilian jiu jitsu terms)... next day, I feel fine.

Doing cardio exercises is the best drug I can think for anyone to recover, I dont know what he hell goes up in the brain when you do cardio exercises, but it really fixes everything.

 

[freehugs]

Doctors cannot help.
A brain scan is the only tool they have for this, and they are not cheap.
A neurologist that has experience with MDMA is the only kind of 'doctor' that will know anything about this. There is no treatment for recovery, other than abstinence from drugs and time.

Research has shown that MDMA users often experience decreases in blood flow to different regions of the brain. Some users will then experience increases. This is less common, but much more serious.

Increases are associated with reported symptoms, such as anxiety.
It is also believed to be a definitive marker of toxicity.
It can last for many months in some users, sometimes over a year.
Most heavy users that report anxiety/depression also claim that psychological recovery takes between 1-2 years. There seems to be a direct correlation.

It is agreed upon by the scientific community that MDMA 're-wires' the brain.
It is the minimum definition of toxicity.
There is no debate about this, at all.
The long-term implications are all that is still in debate.

To be more precise, 'MDMA causes a long-lasting/permanent re-organization of the ascending axonal structure'.

This means that the fiber-like ends of the serotonin network are more fragile, and when they are damaged, the network must replace these lost receptors elsewhere, often closer to the limbic system and brainstem. Some receptors will re-establish in the distant regions, but in abnormal patterns.

Fortunately for us, this process does not normally involve 'gliosis' which is a type of scar tissue formation that is common with other types of brain damage. This may be why substantial recovery is possible in the first place.

Serotonin, regardless of MDMA, has a profound effect upon blood distribution in the brain.

The serotonin system is among the most complex of all nerve systems in biology, it is also the connection between your intestines and your brain.

This 'brain-gut' connection is injecting serotonin into your brainstem, but you no longer have enough receptor cites, thanks to the MDMA. This wreaks havoc upon the endocrine system, at least in users that experience major anxiety. This is not surprising, as MDMA is known to cause a massive release of cortisol by manipulation of certain pathways in the brain. If these pathways are damaged, more cortisol appears to be the prescription.
Taking supplements like 5-HTP will increase symptoms because the network of nerves does not need to be hurried along by more serotonin.

The brain itself does not feel pain, but the nerves on the face and scalp can register this localized pressure. I have described it as a migraine that moves around, depending on the hour or day. Eating lots of heavy food, especially several days in a row, tends to worsen my head-pressure.

'Brain-zaps' are considered to be more violent but much quicker. I have had very few of these, but others have them exclusively. Even ex-SSRI users have experienced this phenomena.

Note - former MDMA users have died of strokes many months after abstinence. This is due to the re-wiring process, which is playing a tug-of-war with capillaries in the brain. Take care of yourself, especially if you feel sudden increases in pressure. This is rare, but needs to be understood. Rapid cooling of body temperature and aspirin are the best treatments in the event of a stroke.

Brain scans reveal this abnormal blood flow.
Good news - they also show that blood distribution eventually returns to normal!
Scientists are confused by this, because serotonin re-innervation has been proven to be abnormal, especially in the brain regions that are distant from the brainstem. How could blood flow normalize if serotonin does not?

It is believed that other neurotransmitter systems are being modified to compensate, although this is still not established.

One thing that research has shown is that the vast majority of MDMA users DO eventually recover from clinical symptoms. Although re-innervation patterns are known to be abnormal, blood flow IS restored. Even among heavy users, this is the trend. So, NO this will not be permanent.
The odds are overwhelmingly in your favor.

Most former MDMA users that experienced 'toxicity' eventually act like regular people. Tests reveal only modest cognitive deficits. However, these individuals continue to display an altered endocrine response to serotonin agonists, such as MDMA....even after 2.5 years of abstinence.
This means that the pathways that mediate the powerful response to the drug may be forever changed. This could explain why so many users advocate Piracetam to restore the 'magic'.

Research that follows these people for longer periods of time is needed. Since this research tests the pathways directly, this is considered to be a simpler and more accurate test of serotonin function. There is reason to suspect that more prolonged abstinence will result in greater restoration.

I strongly suggest waiting at least two years from your last use to roll again.
Not only will you be unlikely to roll, but you may experience an exaggerated comedown.

Exercise and time are the only things that can heal you.
Keep away from the MDMA, too.
You have no business with it ANYtime soon.

Good luck.

qft. Once again, your posts blow me away.

 

[MasterSplinter]

One thing that research has shown is that the vast majority of MDMA users DO eventually recover from clinical symptoms. Although re-innervation patterns are known to be abnormal, blood flow IS restored. Even among heavy users, this is the trend. So, NO this will not be permanent.
The odds are overwhelmingly in your favor.

You are completely contracting yourself. And cutting data from the internet.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

I am not contradicting myself, Splinter.

Although this information does seem contradictory to some of my stronger posts, doesn't it?

Whether or not you believe it, not all of my posts focus on the extreme nature of MDMA toxicity. Quite a few of my posts indicate that clinical recovery DOES happen, despite abnormal re-innervation.

My goal is not the pure defamation of MDMA, rather I seek to spread the knowledge.
'Cutting' from the internet is a pretty plain accusation.
I 'cut' many conclusions from different lines of research in an attempt to form a seamless argument. I have read and digested hundreds of abstracts and papers.

There is a clear indication that MDMA causes damage, but there is also a trend towards clinical recovery - I have no desire to hide this fact.

I really want people suffering from MDMA to know this - they WILL be ok.

The fact is that in some small way, the research IS contradicting itself.
This doesn't mean that there isn't a definitive, correct truth. It means that some truths are highly complex and cannot be quickly understood. It is our understanding that is contradictory.

Scientists know that some alterations to the 5-HT network are permanent, but they fail to assign clear and permanent consequences to this. Extreme symptoms are easily recovered in research, but mysteriously they do disappear over time. A long time...

There does seem to be an extensive clinical recovery from MDMA psychosis/depression. This is the over-whelming trend, even among heavier users. Most of them DO recover, clinically. This is a powerful argument for the plasticity of the brain, but NOT the safety of MDMA.

What I have a problem with is the idea that this recovery is SO complete that it outweighs the risk!
So many users like to point to the complicated and slightly contradictory research to simply ignore the basic truths about MDMA. They seem to think there is still a real debate going on, when much of the dust HAS settled.

This is the problem, Mr. Splinter - not the MDMA.
People simply need to acknowledge that maybe the brain IS being re-wired!
There is no debate on this, any longer. Not among scientists...

So, I will continue to educate people on the risks of MDMA and its permanent 're-wiring' of the brain-gut circuitry. I will also tell those who are desperate that they are going to make it through, and why.

My ability to provide real information will make me more valuable in both circumstances.

As far as our recent discussion goes...
I really was not attempting to attack you personally or belittle you.
I feel like that happened to ME, of course....but that's not the point.

I didn't try to accuse you of being a major 'addict' or a liar.
I never actually said anything close to that, other than reflecting upon your bold statements about 800, almost 1000 tabs. This really does qualify you as a 'heavy' user, sir.
No disrespect, seriously.

But I did want you to share some of your symptoms on that thread.

You see, Splinter...what you and I just debated about will remain on record for a LONG time.
And when you finally admitted to your own symptoms, you made a positive contribution to my effort, without really giving up your own argument.

The truth is I have seen some cool posts of yours in the archives.
I don't have any real problem with you, aside from your willingness to spout unsafe advice/proclamations about MDMA.

Actually, you have shared your problems/symptoms related to MDMA abuse, and you have maintained a good attitude.
You seem like a pretty mellow dude, most of the time.

Besides, just because we passionately disagree on something doesn't mean we can't find common ground. On the contrary, BLers like yourself can turn into some of my best allies.
By supporting some of my assertions, you can lend credibility to my 'asshole' approach.

You should find plenty of positive recovery information in my posts, if you want to see the other side of my contributions...
Who knows, I might just learn something from you as well.

We shall see what tomorrow holds...

 

[MasterSplinter]

I am not contradicting myself, Splinter.

Although this information does seem contradictory to some of my stronger posts, doesn't it?

Whether or not you believe it, not all of my posts focus on the extreme nature of MDMA toxicity. Quite a few of my posts indicate that clinical recovery DOES happen, despite abnormal re-innervation.

My goal is not the pure defamation of MDMA, rather I seek to spread the knowledge.
'Cutting' from the internet is a pretty plain accusation.
I 'cut' many conclusions from different lines of research in an attempt to form a seamless argument. I have read and digested hundreds of abstracts and papers.

There is a clear indication that MDMA causes damage, but there is also a trend towards clinical recovery - I have no desire to hide this fact.

I really want people suffering from MDMA to know this - they WILL be ok.

The fact is that in some small way, the research IS contradicting itself.
This doesn't mean that there isn't a definitive, correct truth. It means that some truths are highly complex and cannot be quickly understood. It is our understanding that is contradictory.

Scientists know that some alterations to the 5-HT network are permanent, but they fail to assign clear and permanent consequences to this. Extreme symptoms are easily recovered in research, but mysteriously they do disappear over time. A long time...

There does seem to be an extensive clinical recovery from MDMA psychosis/depression. This is the over-whelming trend, even among heavier users. Most of them DO recover, clinically. This is a powerful argument for the plasticity of the brain, but NOT the safety of MDMA.

What I have a problem with is the idea that this recovery is SO complete that it outweighs the risk!
So many users like to point to the complicated and slightly contradictory research to simply ignore the basic truths about MDMA. They seem to think there is still a real debate going on, when much of the dust HAS settled.

This is the problem, Mr. Splinter - not the MDMA.
People simply need to acknowledge that maybe the brain IS being re-wired!
There is no debate on this, any longer. Not among scientists...

So, I will continue to educate people on the risks of MDMA and its permanent 're-wiring' of the brain-gut circuitry. I will also tell those who are desperate that they are going to make it through, and why.

My ability to provide real information will make me more valuable in both circumstances.

As far as our recent discussion goes...
I really was not attempting to attack you personally or belittle you.
I feel like that happened to ME, of course....but that's not the point.

I didn't try to accuse you of being a major 'addict' or a liar.
I never actually said anything close to that, other than reflecting upon your bold statements about 800, almost 1000 tabs. This really does qualify you as a 'heavy' user, sir.
No disrespect, seriously.

But I did want you to share some of your symptoms on that thread.

You see, Splinter...what you and I just debated about will remain on record for a LONG time.
And when you finally admitted to your own symptoms, you made a positive contribution to my effort, without really giving up your own argument.

The truth is I have seen some cool posts of yours in the archives.
I don't have any real problem with you, aside from your willingness to spout unsafe advice/proclamations about MDMA.

Actually, you have shared your problems/symptoms related to MDMA abuse, and you have maintained a good attitude.
You seem like a pretty mellow dude, most of the time.

Besides, just because we passionately disagree on something doesn't mean we can't find common ground. On the contrary, BLers like yourself can turn into some of my best allies.
By supporting some of my assertions, you can lend credibility to my 'asshole' approach.

You should find plenty of positive recovery information in my posts, if you want to see the other side of my contributions...
Who knows, I might just learn something from you as well.

We shall see what tomorrow holds...

You say the same thing in every single post over and over and over again like your some kind of intelligent genius.

I dont buy it troll.

You have memorized a single speech rant that you deliver ever single time a member disagrees with your own ideals and philosphys.

You spout all this nonsense and rarely bother quoting or linking sources other than wikipedia which is a simpleton source of information.

If I had a dollar for every time you rant about "many studies that have been done" or "researchers have shown" without even pointing anyone at a direct source of your information. I dont want to have to read through a 57 page report to find half a paragraph tat may or may not mention a piece of data to support your claims.

You sell your story over and over and every single response in this giant epic speech about cortisol, blood flow, the intestines, or HPPD which clearly you spend alot of time on bluelight or reading about the internet.

But I dont get your attitude. Its a bit skewed I think we can agree. You rarely ppresent your information in a friendly or positive attitude. Its just a bunch of

"You destroyed your brain and have made permenant changes. You will never be the same and will just get used to it. The world is going to end on May 21st...then again in 2012"

Nonsense.

Help us out for a change. I dont dig your rhetoric at all college boy.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Splinter, I'm seriously going to invest in some rat poison.

My posts are normally quite long and detailed, and YES I repeat this information in post after post.

I do not re-post my 'synopsis' because I think I'm a genius.
I do it so more people are exposed to the truth.
This is what ALL good teachers do - they repeat the lesson over and over again, in the hopes that a few students actually get it.

Much of what I present is an attempt to compress highly complex information into plain English. It really is the only way to reach my audience.

If you think my analysis and presentation are wrong, then I challenge you to do something about it, other than crying like a bitch.

Seriously, spend some real time doing research for yourself - then come back at me when you have something to argue with.

You have admitted to doing 800+ pills over 5 years.
Although you have talked about negative effects, like brain zaps and cognitive issues, you often write posts that seem to encourage the frequent use of MDMA. You belittle the negative effects, which is a selfish and inappropriate decision.

You are putting people at risk.

You also find yourself irritated with me.
Big surprise.
Next time you feel that way, skip my 57-page report!

Either find a way to oppose me with facts or stop reading my posts.
Its pretty simple.
It would seem that plenty of others are capable of this...

By the way, I rarely link to wiki, bro.
At some point in the near future, I will return with a massive list of references that back up my 'synopsis'. Then what will you have to say?

It is a LOT more work than you realize, too.
If it were really clear-cut and easily understood, it would already be done.

For all of the substantial information on MDMA, I am shocked at how few BASICS are understood by users. Like the fact that the primary function of serotonin is digestion...

My goal is to extract the BASICS from research and present them, over and over again. And I finished college many years ago - son.