Psychopathy/ASPD and psychedelic use

[Pontius Pilate]

I'm antisocial; no diagnosis except my own, but were I to see a shrink, I could easily be labeled. Of course, that's only if I were honest, because I could also aim for a welfare check off mental handicap, or pass a professional psych evaluation. I'm no liar though, except out of absolute necessity.

My disposition is as such, usually: lack of empathy, unresponsive to emotional stimuli, and flat affect (on a positive baseline though).
On a separate but relative note, I am also prone to abnormal delusions of reference and am highly impressionable.

Hallucinogens have, for me, allowed a deep and rational insight into my origin and development. They've engaged a passion for cognitive science and a hobby of spiritual mythologies and occult practice. I've become, since adopting psychedelia in my early teens, quite strange and obscure in taste.

Of course, that's only the constructive side of it all. So-called entheogens are only so when used as such. Like Paracelsus said and whatnot. Hallucinogens, both psychedelic and dissociative (and even deleriant on occasion), often distort or introduce ideas that, given my admittedly untenable grounding in reality, can lead to bizarre, subtle manias or straight up psychotic tangents.

I'm also now an addict of novelty, which has led to some pretty deranged places.

All said though, I'm very well adjusted, despite my fucked up. I'm an elementary school teacher at a charter school, and I'm only 22. I have few friends, but only due to my disinterest and disdain for most. I take care of my family.

 

[lancestrange]

I am familiar with aspd and psychedelics. My aspd has definitely been enhanced by lsd. Urges to manipulate people has steadily gotten stronger the longer I refrain from tripping. My factors are also genetic and environmental factors, I have gotten sick the last few times I went up a few doses, mostly due to sinuses. Mentally, I'm more stable than others I've been around. Recently, I have used it to explore my friend's mind and see how he thinks as well as other people I know. Typically, I at least to attempt to have patience with people and it has dwindled down significantly since the last trip.

I took a break from manipulating people to see how they would continue acting around me and they have felt as if they've lost something when they get around me. Personally, psychedelics have made me a 'better' person but also enhances the 'mind' games that go on within my very limited friends. The serotonin did cause a slight bond to my friend that I've tripped with most of the time but when it comes down to it, I still feel no empathy or sympathy to him and most people around me. Your theory, from personal experience, is correct. I've also read into some research that Psychedelics are seen to be a 'cure' for aspd and similar issues, but my personal opinion is that it just makes the person feel completely content on who they are and how to improve his or her self.

 

[terarc]

I'm interested if OP has ever tried MDMA and what effects they felt?

 

[Motifoner]

I had a good friend for close to my whole life, he had skitzophrenia or some other personality disorder. We are unsure, he never told us the truth about what he had.

He did do a good few drugs of different sorts and lots of weed.
But a few trips too.
He started to become pretty psychotic in a bit of a murderer type way.
Nek minut he had an argument over burnt onions with a good mate of His and stabs him up through the chest, through the lung and nicked his heart.

Im talking the biggest knife ive ever seen, like bigger than crocodile dun dee's shanka.

Im not saying your this person man, but your asking for experiences with these disorders and drugs and heres mine.

That friend is in jail now, im unsure what to do but i cannot remain friends with him if i dont want to get caught up in something fucked.

You can take psychedelics if you please, but my friend didnt have bad trips. For him it just clicks something in his brain.

There was many many many times when i was with him that you could literally see he was hearing and seeing things, tensing up. Vibes of malice. Lack of conversing.
Not when he was on drugs either this was all the time.

I did forget to mention this all got progressively worse leading up to his imprisonment.

His "skitz moments" i cannot directly account to psychedelics, everything in his life led up to that, but weed is psychoactive if im not wrong and he had his fair share of nbome and 2cE n shit.(lsd n shrooms too)
Which tbh all the people i know who did the research chemicals mistreated them and lost the plot. They are twitchers n tweakers now

Drugs can be a fuckeroo mate, just take caution for your own sake

 

[Solipsis]

That's really heavy to witness, and definitely sounds very insane and violent!

Thanks for sharing..

You do mention a disclaimer, but it's worth emphasizing that psychosis and paranoid schizophrenic delusions are different from psychopathy: it's a pretty important difference as for whether a person has problems separating fantasy or thought from reality and especially when intrusional thoughts develop, or on the other hand with psychopathy emotions don't develop in a normal way.

Psychedelic drugs can be more questionable to use with mental disorders but schizophrenia is probably one of the worst, because of the sensitivity to losing that separation between reality and fantasy - one of the main crux problems.

Psychopathy or anti-social attitudes or disorders can be more adjusted, but it seems pretty important that it is. I don't know if decision making can be impaired from limited emotions / intuition, and if this can be an issue with behavior and morality. It could be an issue if tripping undermines the ability to adapt and adjust, to still adhere to the "rules" and guidelines of the world, even if you distantiate yourself from it.
I wouldn't be surprised if for example delusions of grandeur on 3-MeO-PCP would be a considerable hazard - and you'd have to know that you are in control and you can keep your shit together on psychedelics... meaning that perhaps there is more at stake when too much disinhibition could cause behavior that may be deranged.

Quirky behavior is not a real problem, but what is important is not losing sight of the respect for other people, especially when you trip in a setting where you cannot fully withdraw from other people, such as in the city without a home / personal domain vs. out in nature.

Back to schizophrenia: The above story can hardly comment on what psychedelics can trigger in general - schizophrenia is a pretty particular mental predisposition.

 

[Motifoner]

Back to schizophrenia: The above story can hardly comment on what psychedelics can trigger in general - schizophrenia is a pretty particular mental predisposition.

I wont disagree with what you said,
Because his situation was quite unique in my opinion.
But i can deffiantely say tripping did not help his grip on reality which strayed ever further.
But yea scitzophrenia is very particular, and this situation was too.
My main reason for posting it is because i dont want others to even come close to what he did.

He's 19, the best part of his life is now ruined because of drugs and lack of control/"skitz moments" that he never even tried to come to a solution with.

As far as paychedelics and something like aspd directly, i couldnt pretend i have decent knowledge on that..

 

[Solipsis]

His whole condition may very well have contributed to him not helping his own case... it's worth realizing that it is hard to say how much or how quickly he would've gotten episodes if it wasn't for drugs and if it wasn't for that day... am not really trying to defend drugs, they sure exacerbate things like this... but like you said the situation is unique and triggers that may not be problematic for others can prove disastrous for a schizophrenic. The genetics can make a person a timebomb, and inherently contribute to making those exact unhealthy choices - probably wanting to be more mentally out there from tendency.

Cannabis would also be a terrible idea, but it is not dangerous for a healthy person.. so it's akin to an allergy.

I can't believe that some people suggest treatment of schizophrenia with psychedelics. I mean it would be interesting in a clinical setting, but out of a clinical setting it is risky beyond belief.

That people with mental problems can have a hard time helping to have themselves helped is a tragedy.

As for therapy and potential for other mental illness: psychedelics can have extremely positive and extremely negative influence, often it is a mix of positive and negative. As for myself, psychedelic brought out a lot of potential in me, but with positive potential I think I also magnified problems and sensitivities to greater extent. Nevertheless it felt like 'the way' for me.
So I guess it is reminiscent of the schizophrenic although with less pronounced risk and more of a net neutral potential... but inexplicable how we can be drawn to it.

I too hope nobody triggers episodes / exacerbates their condition like he did... with sensitivities and especially a diagnosed condition in the psychotic / delusional department tripping is tempting fate. I can imagine / I empathize with the feeling of not wanting to lose your 'edge' or spark of life by taking antipsychotics... but the risks of such tragedies are incomparably more terrible if you realize it.

Personally I am happy to give back the sharpest bit of my 'edge' by taking dexamph - too much constant intensity in life is hard on a person.

 

[IamMe90]

Some really interesting and refreshing insights this last page!

I am familiar with aspd and psychedelics. My aspd has definitely been enhanced by lsd. Urges to manipulate people has steadily gotten stronger the longer I refrain from tripping. My factors are also genetic and environmental factors, I have gotten sick the last few times I went up a few doses, mostly due to sinuses. Mentally, I'm more stable than others I've been around. Recently, I have used it to explore my friend's mind and see how he thinks as well as other people I know. Typically, I at least to attempt to have patience with people and it has dwindled down significantly since the last trip.

I took a break from manipulating people to see how they would continue acting around me and they have felt as if they've lost something when they get around me. Personally, psychedelics have made me a 'better' person but also enhances the 'mind' games that go on within my very limited friends. The serotonin did cause a slight bond to my friend that I've tripped with most of the time but when it comes down to it, I still feel no empathy or sympathy to him and most people around me. Your theory, from personal experience, is correct. I've also read into some research that Psychedelics are seen to be a 'cure' for aspd and similar issues, but my personal opinion is that it just makes the person feel completely content on who they are and how to improve his or her self.

Although, this... *shudder*

 

[EphemeralOutlet141]

I'm not diagnosed as anything, but I absolutely identify with what you said about the empathetic aspect of your trips. Mine only ever seem to enhance my own sense of self, as opposed to having increased empathy towards others.

I've tripped multiple times both alone and with other people. There is never any heavy introspection or emotion, just euphoria. When I trip with other people, I just plain ignore them.

This is a very interesting topic, I've looked into it before and the general consensus is that psychedelics have almost the same effects on people with ASPD that therapy does. It only makes them worse and opens them up to new manipulation techniques.

 

[WaterBirds]

THIS.

I never asked anybody for help. Like I said I'm actually quite happy with who I am as a person (which you have to be to be able to use psychedelics on a regular basis). I'm just wondering how antisocials and psychopaths on the whole react to the psychedelic experience.

"altitudes" post was interesting right up until he suggested I was "immune to the mental effects of tripping".

THIS.

I never asked anybody for help. Like I said I'm actually quite happy with who I am as a person (which you have to be to be able to use psychedelics on a regular basis). I'm just wondering how antisocials and psychopaths on the whole react to the psychedelic experience.

"altitudes" post was interesting right up until he suggested I was "immune to the mental effects of tripping".

this is my first post on BlueLight but I’m also interested in this subject. I definitely have a lot of characteristics of someone with ‘Sociopathy’, ‘Psychopathy’, or Machiavellionism, and I’ve been using all kinds of psychedelics for a long time. It still seems that my emotional state is quite neutral all of the time but I’ve gained A LOT more insight into the human psyche via psychedelic journeys. I believe that we are simply wired differently and that no one can explain the finest details of neurology to a tee. But we can certainly come close. Psychedelics can surely improve manipulation skills in my experience. I’m not the violent type but when I do get seriously angry, I actually scare myself because I don’t want to do something outrageous and go to prison for a long time where I have absolutely no control of my own life decisions (I have extreme trouble not lashing out when angry). I get anxious for different reasons than most people it seems. The anxiety is more so stemming from the threat of losing control. Nothing is more threatening to me than somebody trying to control me in any way whatsoever. I know this is a super old thread but I figured I’d post on it anyways... seeing as how I may have some insight and relatable tendencies. And also, a high IQ alongside true Psychopathy (which is not generally understood for what it really is; it’s true nature) can be either a very dangerous or very helpful combination. Maybe someone will read this spontaneous rant and be able to relate to the more low-key world of psychopathy via my direct experience with thoughts, trouble with impulse control, and the uniquely small range of emotions that are available for me to experience. A fascinating subject indeeeed.

 

[Xorkoth]

Hey there, welcome. I hope some people have some good thoughts for you. I remember this thread, but I can't really relate to sociopathy or anger issues, personally. My ex wife has serious anger issues and was unable to not lash out at me at the slightest amount of anger, 0% to 100% in the snap of a finger and it would involve attacking me with fists or thrown objects, screaming, saying absolutely anything to hurt me as bad as possible, etc. However, she did not like psychedelics and actually the one time she did a full dose of one (smoked DMT), it may have been the beginning of a period of true psychosis from which she may or may not have recovered fully (we're long since split).

 

[WaterBirds]

Hey there, welcome. I hope some people have some good thoughts for you. I remember this thread, but I can't really relate to sociopathy or anger issues, personally. My ex wife has serious anger issues and was unable to not lash out at me at the slightest amount of anger, 0% to 100% in the snap of a finger and it would involve attacking me with fists or thrown objects, screaming, saying absolutely anything to hurt me as bad as possible, etc. However, she did not like psychedelics and actually the one time she did a full dose of one (smoked DMT), it may have been the beginning of a period of true psychosis from which she may or may not have recovered fully (we're long since split).

Thanks for responding to my post. It is interesting how some people react to psychedelics in an odd way (Like your ex wife for example). I can only speak on how they have affected me in the long run. It seems that my mind is more in tune with the thoughts, feelings, and emotions of other people now.... allowing me to tap into that while communicating. Psychedelics have certainly broadened my awareness. The thing is that communicating with other people is simply not something I’m interested in usually unless I’m trying to get laid, or it’s a truly fascinating subject . Usually, it is a sort of forced act on my part to try a practice social skills and the charm that feels oh so unnatural. I remember taking an unknown amount of LSD (10+ drops at least) out of the vial and smoking DMT at the peak..... and now that I look back, it wasn’t a very emotional experience. It was more of an extreme excitement throughout my whole mind-body followed by a comforting feeling companied by extreme visuals, body sensations, and direct messages. The emotional spectrum for me has always been fairly limited, but psychedelics have opened up my understanding of the vast emotional spectrum in others. If I hadn’t ever used psychedelics, I’m sure my mind would be very dull and would not understand the intricacies of “normal” human emotion. People respond to certain vibrations via tone of voice, wording, body language, and so on. While on psychedelics, these things become crystal clear, allowing me to either manipulate or simply ignore them and focus on my own experience. Ive also noticed that I tend to be able to dive much deeper into the rabbit hole with substances like LSD, 4-HO-MET, 2C-B, 2C-E, than others and without emotions getting in the way. For some reason tho, DMT has always frightened me because I always lose control of my own bodily functions during the beginning stages of onset.. which lingers on into about halfway through the journey where I can begin to relax through breathing. DMT is beyond my understanding so I just trust the process of losing control. DMT is reserved for times when I need to remind myself not to throw my ego out there too much. It dissolves my sense of self completely and opens me up to new territories in the mind. What is odd is that my emotional range throughout my lifetime has been very limited and has stayed that way even with the continuous use of entheogens. One thing I can say though is that psychedelics and entheogens truly help me live by a moral code that I create for myself. They expand my awareness and understanding of human emotion and allow me to act accordingly so that I don’t do anything rash or harmful. For me, psychedelics = expanded awareness in which can be used for good, bad, or nothing. I’d rather operate in unison with society rather than flake off and become a full time “criminal”. Imprisonment is easily my worst fear so I create a moral code that I force myself to live by in order to avoid that situation. This forum thing is pretty cool and I like how it remains anonymous.