Health Psychedelics for accelerated learning?

[Pez]

I'm sure some of you have read this short little book thing on drug library - "LSD: The Problem-Solving Psychedelic".

I'm generally down with the notion that certain psychedelics can help with problem-solving or creativity, but what I'm most interested in is a specific part which is quoted in the book, and which I'll quote again here:

Bernard Roseman, for example in LSD the Age of Mind, found it behooved him to become involved with the practical endeavor of typing. In detailing his system for becoming an accomplished typist through psychedelics, he emphasized the necessity for knowing the basics of the touch-system. Once this was acquired, with a fair rhythm, he offered the following advice for "drumming in" a conditioned response:

Take [the drug] while typing and continue right through the transition period (where one's consciousness changes).
Now here is where "will power" comes in, as you will find yourself inventing a thousand reasons why typing is useless and you could not care less about learning it. It would be so pleasant to stop and listen to a little music or just meditate. Well, if you wish to accomplish something with psychedelics that lingers on into your ordinary state, you must exert an act of will. By doing nothing but letting that state direct you, a pleasant time will be had, but little accomplished.
Therefore you must continue this regime... if possible up to fourteen hours....
It will feel as if you have been typing for centuries locked in a small enclosure with but one action to perform. When the drug wears off, go to sleep. It is almost guaranteed your mind will still be seeing numbers and letters, and your fingers will jerk as they wish to automatically respond to the actions required of them. Upon awakening, go back to the typewriter. You will be amazed to see your speed and accuracy greatly improved. A force will seem to grab your hands, and your fingers will fight to obey. The typewriter is now a permanent part of you, and the impression made can never be erased.

I'm thinking that this sort of set-up could be used to rapidly learn other such skills in very short periods of time. That is, in a single day-long burst play so much guitar, or drums, or paino, or work with so much clay, or tap-dance for so long, or do something else so much, that you improve so substantially as to make that skill a part of you.

Frankly I'm probably going to try this with one thing or another, but I'm just wondering if anyone else has thoughts on this. Think it's a good idea? Bad? Have you experienced something similar on LSD or other psychedelics?

 

[rickolasnice]

I may be wrong but i don't think you'd need to take a drug to get the same affects when learning something in that manner.. spend 14 hours non stop typing and you will still see numbers and letters when going to sleep.. your hands will still twitch as if they're trying to type and you will still see a great improvement the next day.. LSD or no LSD.

 

[emperorofusa]

I type plenty fast and quite accurately and I never needed drugs to learn how to type. I've also practiced diligently so I could learn new skills, and I have taught myself quite a number of very interesting things and I didn't need drugs to learn how to do them.

I will say, however, that I did get the illusion of being more capable, more intelligent, better able to do lots of things when I was heavy into psychedelics. This only diminished the quality of my life and skewed my priorities. Now that I trip a few times a year and don't do much else I'm better for it. So take that as you will. It took me a long time to re-integrate and learn that I have always been quite capable on my own.

 

[Pez]

I may be wrong but i don't think you'd need to take a drug to get the same affects when learning something in that manner.. spend 14 hours non stop typing and you will still see numbers and letters when going to sleep.. your hands will still twitch as if they're trying to type and you will still see a great improvement the next day.. LSD or no LSD.

True, and I've thought about that. But it seems like it would make some difference, no? Certainly it wouldn't feel as though you've been doing it for centuries, which I can almost imagine LSD doing. And centuries of doing something is certainly better than a day of it, haha.

 

[Roger&Me]

Whenever I play guitar or piano on psychedelics (LSD especially), I feel that I make great strides in improving my understanding of the instrument and music in general.

 

[Pez]

Whenever I play guitar or piano on psychedelics (LSD especially), I feel that I make great strides in improving my understanding of the instrument and music in general.

Sweet! This is exactly what I was looking to hear. :D

Anyone have experience with specifically mushrooms and this kind of stuff? Or anything else other than LSD?

 

[qwe]

robert anton wilson wrote about a woman who wanted to learn chinese very fast, using LSD

within a couple days she could speak very fluently!

but any reminders of the language, and she'd experience flashbacks

(they used pretty hardcore doses back then)

but the link between psychedelics and creativity is undeniable, for musicians and artists and such. it's not just accelerated learning, it's mainly the enhanced creativity that helps artists and scientists come up with novel ideas

 

[The Winner!!]

On acid I was indeed very creative and good at solving all types of problems in my head. (I didn't read that WHOLE thing but heres my input; ) Don't you think if you like, made someone take LSD to research a paper or some kind of mathematics, that it could possibly mess up their thinking patterns in a very chaotic or loopy way?

 

[highandrolling]

im going to do some research with the guitar and a djembe and play the whole trip solid whilst under the influence of acid, shruums and i think AMT and 2ce would be great creative drugs as well and report back on whether its really made substanial improvement. i am pretty new to learning the guitar, bout a year playin but only moderately. im really hoping that it will not only help my skills and increase my abilities but give me more motivation as sometimes it can be very unnerving when u feel like u try so hard and yet see little to no difference.

i have this creative beast inside and i want to let it out, just need to borrow jimis fingers

 

[kaib0rg]

i've been researching this topic for a little over a year now.

i'm a dancer of ~9 years and for the first 8 years of dance I had consumed scheduled substances but none helped with dance (i tried...). About a year ago, I used LSD for the first time (in a dance-oriented environment) and I was completely blown away. Whereas some substances would noticeably impair my dance, some would alter my perception to make it seem as if i was dancing better (but in reality, i wasnt), LSD broke the barrier. I was dancing better, in reality, then I would have sober. Mind you, dancing for 8 years had clued me in on the ability to differentiate between my visual perception of my dance and my kinesthetic perception of my dance. LSD allowed for a massive (at least 20% ) increase in hand-eye coordination (most of my dancing involves coordination between my hands and arms). And creativity? Wow. It was off the charts. I danced for 12 straight hours that day, rarely repeating a movement.

Since then I've been using LSD (1-2 hits) roughly every other weekend to improve my dance. I've kept a video journal of my progress since (practically) day 1 and it's very noticeable when I began using LSD if you follow the videos.

From what I've observed, LSD allows me to improve in areas in which I'm already familiar with in sober reality. For instance, I'm not an athlete. Put a basketball in my hand and I wont play basketball any better while on LSD as I do sober. However, with things I'm already proficient in during my sober state, I'm much more proficient in with the right amount of LSD. The key for me is to use LSD as a motivation of sorts for dancing. For 12 hours of usage, I'm a dance genius. But after that 12 hours is over, I'm back to my regular sober dancing. However, I use this experience to draw on my memory of those 12 hours and build my sober dance against the model of my dancing on LSD. This essentially creates a perpetual cycle of improvement.

 

[malakaix]

i've been researching this topic for a little over a year now.

i'm a dancer of ~9 years and for the first 8 years of dance I had consumed scheduled substances but none helped with dance (i tried...). About a year ago, I used LSD for the first time (in a dance-oriented environment) and I was completely blown away. Whereas some substances would noticeably impair my dance, some would alter my perception to make it seem as if i was dancing better (but in reality, i wasnt), LSD broke the barrier. I was dancing better, in reality, then I would have sober. Mind you, dancing for 8 years had clued me in on the ability to differentiate between my visual perception of my dance and my kinesthetic perception of my dance. LSD allowed for a massive (at least 20% ) increase in hand-eye coordination (most of my dancing involves coordination between my hands and arms). And creativity? Wow. It was off the charts. I danced for 12 straight hours that day, rarely repeating a movement.

Since then I've been using LSD (1-2 hits) roughly every other weekend to improve my dance. I've kept a video journal of my progress since (practically) day 1 and it's very noticeable when I began using LSD if you follow the videos.

From what I've observed, LSD allows me to improve in areas in which I'm already familiar with in sober reality. For instance, I'm not an athlete. Put a basketball in my hand and I wont play basketball any better while on LSD as I do sober. However, with things I'm already proficient in during my sober state, I'm much more proficient in with the right amount of LSD. The key for me is to use LSD as a motivation of sorts for dancing. For 12 hours of usage, I'm a dance genius. But after that 12 hours is over, I'm back to my regular sober dancing. However, I use this experience to draw on my memory of those 12 hours and build my sober dance against the model of my dancing on LSD. This essentially creates a perpetual cycle of improvement.

I really enjoyed reading that.

I'm not a dancer myself.. but i love dancing whenever the opportunity arises. I avoided it completely before i consumed LSD.. i had no knowledge at all on how to manipulate my body's movement with music in rhythmic motion. But the second time i consumed LSD and was around quite a large sound system setup and dance area.. i was floored by what became accessible to me with my body.

Ever since then i've dosed LSD countless times over years and usually always in an environment which has allowed me to dance.. as you also mentioned, through the memory of that movement and rhythm i've been able to almost replicate the ability to manipulate the movement of my limbs and body whilst sober.. the coordination is unreal, that and my overall sense of balance seems to have improved greatly.

 

[Solipsis]

Wouldn't nootropic psychedelics be a better fit for this?
Maybe 2C-D or 2C-T-21? Maybe I'm way off...

 

[qwe]

^ nootropic psychedelics? all psychedelics have quite similar pharmacologic action, with PEAs and LSD having more DA and NE release making them for some a bit more stimulating and euphoric, but the basic pharmacological basis for the psychedelic state of mind (which isnt exactly understood very well) is consistent throughout

so... back to "nootropic psychedelics?" if you take psychedelic, i don't think your memory/cognition are going to be enhanced in the way that piracetam enhances them... i believe you misunderstand the term, and you may mean to say "RC's"/research chemicals or "PEAs / phenylethylamines". however, using any psychedelic at a threshold to sub-threshold doses does seem to allow them to act as a nootropic (improved mood, cognition, creativity, vision, memory, et al)

 

[Xorkoth]

Nootropic, from Webster's:

of, relating to, or promoting the enhancement of cognition and memory and the facilitation of learning

Piracetam is certainly a nootropic substance, but psychedelics can also be nootropic is utilized properly. Sure. Certain ones, especially, are, most notably at the correct dosages.

So while psychedelics won;t enhance cognition is the exact same way as piracetam, they can certainly provide a type of valid enhancement.

 

[Solipsis]

I wasn't hesitant about the term psychedelic nootropic, but the substances that would best fit the description.
You are right I guess that strictly speaking most psychedelics have a cognition accelerating effect but I disagree with the consistency you speak of, qwe.

Look at mushrooms, now perhaps the effects differ between people but I don't think you'll be absorbing knowledge with a rational basis very fast under the influence of them.

I think there are two ways psychedelics can be beneficial within the context of this thread and that is:

1. To get into an intuitive flow, that is to say making a connection from your subconscious or even collective conscious to your expression which should help with arts.
2. To make use of the nootropic side to help with your general rationalizing processes and as such, science. I suspect cognitive functions are better put under this aspect - part of learning is deep understanding and part is repetition and neurological reinforcement, simply put. Well psychedelics that have this aspect I call nootropic have a major potential for this deep understanding and better yet, the integration of it which may be lacking more with tryptamines.
The psychedelics that are said to be very clear-headed, like DOB, I think the 2C-Xs I mentioned and certainly LSD as well should work well for at least this second aspect, though it's surely not mutually exclusive.

That's what I meant, I really feel like I have a point and simultaneously that this subject is a LOT more complex and probably somewhat different than the way I
illustrate it

 

[Nibiru]

I always found both psychedelics and stimulants to have a similar effect on learning, ie. helping certain things code to memory more efficiently, and helping to better visualize things in the mind. however I always found psychedelics to be more distracting outside of microdosed LSD or 2C-B, which worked a lot like stimulants to me in lower threshold doses.

As said above, though, dancing benefits from psychedelics more often than not. Something to do with perception of space and enhanced aesthetic, I reckon.

 

[Solipsis]

I quote a piece from the 2C-D entry in PIHKAL to support my point

QUALITATIVE COMMENTS: (with 10 mg) There is something going on, but it is subtle. I find that I can just slightly redirect my attention so that it applies more exactly to what I am doing. I feel that I can learn faster. This is a `smart' pill!

Does that address the thread question?

 

[B9]

Dose is everything - take too much and psychedelics can be anything but cognitive enhacers -at least for consensus reality type learning.

 

[moths2flame]

Acid can be a bit distracting when trying to do tasks such as typing. I'd try it with LSA.

 

[qwe]

Nootropic, from Webster's:



Piracetam is certainly a nootropic substance, but psychedelics can also be nootropic is utilized properly. Sure. Certain ones, especially, are, most notably at the correct dosages.

So while psychedelics won;t enhance cognition is the exact same way as piracetam, they can certainly provide a type of valid enhancement.

yes, but it's not like there is a defined class of "nootropic psychedelics". and if LSD enhances learning, mushrooms do in the same way..... the classic tryptamines and PEAs are indeed quite consistent..

1. To get into an intuitive flow, that is to say making a connection from your subconscious or even collective conscious to your expression which should help with arts.
2. To make use of the nootropic side to help with your general rationalizing processes and as such, science. I suspect cognitive functions are better put under this aspect - part of learning is deep understanding and part is repetition and neurological reinforcement, simply put. Well psychedelics that have this aspect I call nootropic have a major potential for this deep understanding and better yet, the integration of it which may be lacking more with tryptamines.
The psychedelics that are said to be very clear-headed, like DOB, I think the 2C-Xs I mentioned and certainly LSD as well should work well for at least this second aspect, though it's surely not mutually exclusive.

and i do get your point. psychedelics are wonderful substances for many reasons, including these

i emphatically agree, psychedelics can be nootropics at threshold to low doses even in a way similar to piracetam and the "standard nootropics", and they can enhance deep understanding and creativity at low to medium and, in some ways, high doses

so i would indeed call psychedelics "nootropics" if i am using the term with clarification (esp clarifying dose). but you really can't call LSD a nootropic and then say that mushrooms aren't; their pharmacological action is too similar

if you percieve a lot of difference between them (which many do), even at threshold doses (not that you'd perceive anything at that dose anyway) that is something subjective to you. aka others probably experience what you experience on LSD and mushrooms but flipflopped (mushroom effects from LSD, and vice versa)

not only is the only significant difference a little activity at 5HT1D, but trained psychotherapists and experienced drug users (back when we were actually doing a lot of research on psychs) often were incorrect in telling between psilocybin and lsd and other "classic psychs"