Psychedelics and warfare

[dondi357]

Hi there,
I am a writer, writing about psychedelics for the past years (you can visit my blogs here: https://psychedeliccultures.com/)
As part of a writing project I'm working on, I'm currently interested in a topic on which there is little information, which is the use of psychedelics for warfare.
I do not mean the use of psychedelics by the CIA or the US Chemical Corps during the 1950s and 1960s but historical use of psychedelics to advance warfare. We know for example that much of shamanism is about black magic - casting evil spells on others, and that ayahuasca was used to convene tribes and plan attacks on enemy tribes, but I know there is so much more to this topic, that is about the use of hallucinogens for warefare - and I don't know where to find it.
Anybody here knows more about this topic and could refer me to relevant books/papers? Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you!

 

[Xorkoth]

I wouldn't say that "much" of shamanism is about black magic/using it to hurt others. I'd say that at its core, shamanism is about attempting to provide understanding/spiritual guidance, and healing. I'm sure you can find examples of the aspects you're suggest too, of course, since warfare is also a big part of any civilization (well, not any, but most). Do you have a source to cite about ayahuasca being used to convene tribes and plan attacks on enemies? If so, that's really interesting and I'd like to see.

 

[dondi357]

Look up Stephan Beyer's "Singing to the plant", he talks about the prevalence of dark shamanism., also heard others, I think Christian Raetsch talking about how dark shamanism is just about as common as healing-shamanism. Regretfully I don't yet have the source you asked about. I remember reading it somewhere a while ago, but am now trying to locate more information on this subject. I'll keep you updated here if I track the source.

I wouldn't say that "much" of shamanism is about black magic/using it to hurt others. I'd say that at its core, shamanism is about attempting to provide understanding/spiritual guidance, and healing. I'm sure you can find examples of the aspects you're suggest too, of course, since warfare is also a big part of any civilization (well, not any, but most). Do you have a source to cite about ayahuasca being used to convene tribes and plan attacks on enemies? If so, that's really interesting and I'd like to see.

 

[dondi357]

Some relevant quotes from Beyer:

"In the amazon," writes Beyer "Killing and curing are ate once antagonistic and complementary; shamanic healers and shamanic killers represent interlocking cultural tendencies." [beyer 47].

"The power to kill and to cure is the same because it is embodied in the same instrument" says one Shuar Shaman, while another says "there are bad shamans and there are good shamans but they are all bad."[beyer,46]. The Sharanahua believe that power to harm increases concomitantly with the power to heal, and that "shamans enjoy killing" (p.46)

Look up Stephan Beyer's "Singing to the plant", he talks about the prevalence of dark shamanism., also heard others, I think Christian Raetsch talking about how dark shamanism is just about as common as healing-shamanism. Regretfully I don't yet have the source you asked about. I remember reading it somewhere a while ago, but am now trying to locate more information on this subject. I'll keep you updated here if I track the source.

 

[Xorkoth]

Worth noting, IMO, that the quote from the shaman is from a shaman in one particular culture. I would expect there to be unique characteristics from each culture. The cultural mores of the particular tribe will inform the tendencies of their shamans. I guess maybe you're not trying to say that all shamanism is like what you describe. The central/south american native populations seemed to really share a history of pretty shocking violence, with a lot of human sacrifice. But not all indigenous cultures around the world share that same quality.

 

[Efoj]

Worth noting, IMO, that the quote from the shaman is from a shaman in one particular culture. I would expect there to be unique characteristics from each culture.

True. Even more true when you consider the fact that in most of South America there was never anything remotely like an empire as in China, Rome or even Aztec empire in Mexico.

Actually it is estimated that 1078 languages were spoken only in Brasil in 1500. In 2010, native languages were reduced to 180. And it's not like Portuguese, Spanish, French and Italian; English, German and Dutch; Hindi, Persian, all from three branches of one family (Indo-European). Modern classification counts 15 (probably unrelated) families that existed in Brazil and other isolated languages.


Just to give you an idea of how these tribes were isolated and quite often had no communication with one another, leading to quite different cultural aspects.

The central/south american native populations seemed to really share a history of pretty shocking violence, with a lot of human sacrifice. But not all indigenous cultures around the world share that same quality.

Ritual human sacrifice was not as common in the Amazon as it was in Central America.

There were wars among tribes in all of the american continent, for sure, but they were hugely different from the Euro-Asian concept of war, that involves territorial expansion (see the no-empire bit above)

The wars between tribes are nothing compared to the mass butchering of European colonization. Just think about 900 cultures disappearing along with their languages...

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

psychic warfare is real, you better believe me brother. X-ray Vision!

 

[pupnik]

Tricksters, by nature, mercurial and shifty.
I don't think that any exposee would be forthcoming.

That type of cooperation (with a non-initiate) inverts the power that the Shaman purposely develops. (AFAIK from reading Don Juan which is speculative fiction)

 

[Ziiirp]

I'm pretty sure, that there is a (or several, different undiscovered dimensions) spiritual realm/s, that we modern westerners are not or only vaguely aware of. But I'm also sure, that CIA (or other secret service)-agents that try to utilize those powers are infinitely naive and end up being fucked more than the supposed victims of those kinds of attacks.

Im 99% sure, that telepathy is real (second hand legit reports) and pretty sure that mind control is possible, but has dramatic karmatic consequences for the malicious abusers.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

The OP'S understanding of "black magick" is poorly understood.
There is no such thing as there is no such thing as good and evil but only perspectives thst lead you think in terms of duality.
If the OP wishes to understand what actual magick is all about it recommend
-The Magicians Companion (Llewellyn publications)
-The Golden Dawn by Isreal Regardie
And if the OP wishes to learn about the Occult aspects of the "Left Hand Path"
Then Lords Of The Left Hand Path by Stephen Edred Flowers is a very good start.
Black and White Magick if you really want to call it that or Right Hand Path and Left Hand Path religions that employ occultism have the exact same aims... the only real difference is their methodology....
I would strongly also recommend looking up the left hand path aspects of bhuddism... the OP may be very surprised at what they learn about it.
?

 

[The Hypnotist]

In my opinion psychedelics are just means to get what you want. The hippie perspective of psychedelics being all about love is quite naive in my opinion. Psyquedelics are about getting information and getting perspectives, full stop. Your intention will be crucial.
And violence has been extensively used to get different things throught history by most cultures. I would say all cultures will have some kind of violence in them, it is the price to pay for being emotional beings.

Violence seems to be reducing as we get more civilized, contrary to common opinion. From a first world abundancy prespective it is normal to think that being good is desirable. But in other conditions to be ''not so good'' can be more desirable and sometimes be the difference between surviving or not.

I always liked the example of the Yanomami a violent culture famous for their macho style wars, normally about keeping or stealing women. They find themselves in a reality where to avoid attacking means lots of times to get attacked, and the advantage of surprise it is not to be underestimated. Assasins enjoy the benefit of having more wifes, thing that is really valued in their culture, so I can easily put in their shoes and imagine how I would behave in such conditions. Some anthropologist think violence in the Yanomami just started when white man got into the equation. IMHO in anthropology there is quite a lot of go-goodism, and lots of times powerful and bad are confused as the same thing.
Males are extensive users of Yopo (mainly bufotenin, but DMT and 5-meo-DMT too), all male members use it with the aim of expulsing bad spirits from inside their bodies.
Interesting is too that killers don't get much of a social stigma, and the worst for a Yanomami is material selfishness.

 

[pupnik]

In my opinion psychedelics are just means to get what you want. The hippie perspective of psychedelics being all about love is quite naive in my opinion. Psyquedelics are about getting information and getting perspectives, full stop. Your intention will be crucial....

your opinion is a bit constrained to your limited experience.
I admit I think of LSD etc. as a kind of pixie dust to make my world run at a different pace (which is something I like), but it is no magic wand that gives me what I want.

that hippie naivety about love, is more of a hint for a good direction in which to be oriented, it is not what psychs are about on their own.

yes orientation is crucial, but this is not about information that you accumulate (get) it is more about enriching your experience in the moment and letting go, and with that you can improve things if so inclined.

way different than getting what you want.

 

[The Hypnotist]

All my opinions are always constrained by my limited experience. So every opinion is. But even that opinion of mine might be constricted.

What I meant is that different people can look for very different things with the same tool. My wording was not the best. So I am gonna try to be very careful this time.

Not my intention to offend anyone who looks for universal love in them. Just pointing out that psychedelics might have the opposite effect in some other people and are probably not a good idea for changing society as hippies thought. That sounds to me like extrapolation of a limited own experience to the general public.

I would stop right now doing any psychedelic if they were not giving me valuable insights, experiences (aka what I want). And when I talk about getting information, I meant just that. Information about who I am, what are my real feeling about different matters, how social systems works, how there is much more to reality that what we normally perceive, etc...even some mumbo jumbo stuff in which I happen to believe

But after our egos dissolve we are agreeing on most. Love!