Health psychedelic therapy - where is it going?

[izo]

hi,

i didnt follow up on the current state of psychedelic psychotherapy for some years. i know there is still psylocin and lsd in use for ptsd (as is mdma) and the first two in terminal cancer patients.

about treating ptsd i have no real opinion. but when it comes to giving psylocin to terminal cancer patients im a bit puzzled. we are mainly talking of halucinogen naive persons here, so giving one of the most roughest psychedelics to someone who probably never took even lsd is a bit hard to wrap my head around. why they dont use something that is better to handle is beyond my understanding. best imo would be something like 4aco-dipt for a tryptamine or something like 2c-b or 2c-t-7 to give those who will leave this earth something beautiful to remember. giving psylocin seems to me a bit like mengele style medicine to say it hard.

also read that 5meo-dmt is being used in psychotherapy. this one i dont get too. too short in duration, too distressing to make a clear thought about anything. why?

ok. in the us they started trying n2o as an antidepressant, thats plain stupid imo. but as already said, when it comes to psychopharmacology the persons in charge still have problems acting in a professional and the least harmful way. its always the problem with distribution and some are always suffering from being left out of what should be the social or medical standard for everyone. guess they need their layer cake.

anyone got any insightful to contribute or any links to the latest news regarding psychedelic therapy wordwide?

thanks

 

[TripSitterNZ]

This whole therpay thing is only getting pushed now cause big pharma is eyeing up all the profits.


If they don't completly legalize the use of psychedelics for everybody recreational and other wise then the govs and big pharma can go fuck themselves

They dont give a shit about helping folks they care about money. and now psychedelic thepary is big money. I bet all the rich mfs will be paying like $1k a session or more lmao. While we could all just go find some shrooms in the ground and help our selves.

 

[moonyham]

I agree mushies seem a bit intense for the purpose. I wouldn't suggest them as a first timers psychedelic. LSD is far more friendly, in my opinion.

 

[bingey]

I think people who are soon going to die arent looking for a fun psychedelic they are looking for a spiritual experience that will make them come to terms with the great unknown, psilocybin or ayahuasca are more fitting in this context than Lsd or phenetylamines

 

[Mjäll]

Psychedelic therapy is what every smart tripper already is doing, and we don't need big corporations or state funded research.

 

[Freeotrope]

This isn't new, bill richards did his dissertation on doing this with DPT (another intense psychedelic) in 1975, and charles grob started doing this with psilocybin in the late 90's or early 2000's

 

[Freeotrope]

bill richards dissertation:

WILLIAM RICHARDS DPT.pdf

INFORMATION TO USERS. This material was produced from a microfilm copy of the original docum ent. While the m ost advanced technological means to photograph and reproduce this docum ent have been used, the quality is heavily dependent upon the quality o f the original submitted. The following ...

docdro.id

 

[Delsyd]

Psychedelic therapy is what every smart tripper already is doing, and we don't need big corporations or state funded research.

Unless every smart tripper is going to get therapy before and after their psychedelic experiences then they aren’t doing psychedelic therapy.
The therapy part of it is just as important as the psychedelic trip.
Corporations don’t have anything to do with therapy. It’s a small group of people at this time, funded by MAPS.
When psychedelics become legal corporations will surely try to make a profit off of it but that doesn’t mean we should stop them from becoming legal and denying access to people who would benefit from psychedelic therapy. A lot of people who take part in it are trying psychedelics for the first time. Psychedelic therapy isn’t for your typical tripper but rather for people who need help healing their traumas and might not have access otherwise.

 

[Mjäll]

Unless every smart tripper is going to get therapy before and after their psychedelic experiences then they aren’t doing psychedelic therapy.
The therapy part of it is just as important as the psychedelic trip.
Corporations don’t have anything to do with therapy. It’s a small group of people at this time, funded by MAPS.
When psychedelics become legal corporations will surely try to make a profit off of it but that doesn’t mean we should stop them from becoming legal and denying access to people who would benefit from psychedelic therapy. A lot of people who take part in it are trying psychedelics for the first time. Psychedelic therapy isn’t for your typical tripper but rather for people who need help healing their traumas and might not have access otherwise.

Did i say we should not make them legal?

Can people not do therapy on themselves or their friends?

I have done psychedelic therapy on myself.

Doing it with a therapist is nothing wrong either. My point is that psychedelic therapy isn't something that comes from researchers and psychologists but is the very essence of psychedelic use.

 

[Delsyd]

This whole therpay thing is only getting pushed now cause big pharma is eyeing up all the profits.


If they don't completly legalize the use of psychedelics for everybody recreational and other wise then the govs and big pharma can go fuck themselves

They dont give a shit about helping folks they care about money. and now psychedelic thepary is big money. I bet all the rich mfs will be paying like $1k a session or more lmao. While we could all just go find some shrooms in the ground and help our selves.

I agree that psychedelics should be legalized for recreational use. They are safe substances and not abusable in the same way as something like opioids and stimulants which get prescribed regularly.

You're absolutely wrong about psychedelic therapy intentions being big pharma profits. The therapists who are doing this work truly believe in the potential psychedelics have in helping people heal from their traumas, they aren't making tons of money from mushrooms, anyone can grow them and they are the most common psychedelic used in therapy besides Ketamine and MDMA, which aren't traditional psychedelics. Psychedelic therapy has been around for decades and being practiced underground by people who believe in it and are not making lots of money from it. (Ann Shulgin is a good example)
As far as it being expensive and for rich motherfuckers, all medical procedures are expensive. You're not paying $1000 for the drug but rather for the time and expertise of the practitioner.

 

[Delsyd]

Did i say we should not make them legal?

Can people not do therapy on themselves or their friends?

I have done psychedelic therapy on myself.

Doing it with a therapist is nothing wrong either. My point is that psychedelic therapy isn't something that comes from researchers and psychologists but is the very essence of psychedelic use.

If people could do therapy on themselves then there wouldn't be any need for therapists. For a lot of people its helpful to speak with someone who can give you a different perspective than your own to help you come to some resolutions.
I have also had many therapeutic psychedelic trips that's why they are such a good candidate for actual therapy sessions. A therapeutic trip and a therapy session are not the same thing but they combine well and have helped many people.

 

[Mjäll]

If people could do therapy on themselves then there wouldn't be any need for therapists. For a lot people its helpful to speak with someone who can give you a different perspective than your own to help you come to some resolutions.
I have also had many therapeutic psychedelic trips that's why they are such a good candidate for actual therapy sessions. A therapeutic trip and a therapy session are not the same thing but they combine well and have helped many people.

I think we share most of the sentiment while speaking differently.

For me, tripping makes everything therapeutic, and makes me my own best therapist.

 

[The Hypnotist]

I think we share most of the sentiment while speaking differently.

For me, tripping makes everything therapeutic, and makes me my own best therapist.

Me, during the trip, I feel I am my own best therapist. Then all those valuable learnings slip through my fingers and I realise I didn't manage to integrate even an infinitesimal part of its potential. Extremely difficult to translate psychedelic learnings into durable changes in thought and behavioural patterns. And all this being myself somebody who studied psychology and knows the basics at the least. It is true that I have a personality disorder too which makes things more difficult, in any case, it is difficult for me to believe that people can get much out of their experiences without external help. Somebody might, but they will be the exception, not the norm. I am not even sure of the potential of psychedelic therapy. Surely it should work for something but I think we are far from really knowing if all those promises will become actual potential. We are really trying to convert a transitory state into a more developed and stable stage.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

The real thepary is done by yourself. A therapist can go along with you into your k hole. The drug does.

 

[burn out]

The real thepary is done by yourself. A therapist can go along with you into your k hole. The drug does.

I feel like some people in this thread aren't really understanding the role of the therapist. As was said earlier, the therapist can provide an outside perspective which you simply cannot arrive at on your own. Everyone has blind spots and areas where they lack experience.

I'm not necessarily a big promotor of therapy either, I think a lot of the time it's not very helpful and in some cases harmful even. However, there are times when it is helpful and those times are when the therapist can help their patient see things they were not able to see before or advise them about issues in which they lacked the knowledge and experience needed to make wise decisions.

 

[G_Chem]

I’ve been into regular therapy quite a few times over my years, never once did I feel it was beneficial and if anything was detrimental to my outcome. Things really only got better when I took hold of my life and stopped asking others to figure it out. (Or in the case of therapist, relying on them to ask the right questions and see the situation for what it really is.)

Not to say someone else won’t benefit. But I don’t think we should look at therapists as the best way to go for healing people with psychedelics. I’m also introverted so maybe I just do better working on things in my own mind on my own accord.

-GC

 

[izo]

But I don’t think we should look at therapists as the best way to go for healing people with psychedelics

might be true for at least the next decades.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

The only thing you need is a shit load of LSD and add some ket ontop you will found the answers by yourself. Considering bunch of MAPS therapsists raped their clients. The whole psychedelic therapists are a crock of shit

 

[izo]

as many here know psychedelics (apart from possible of being a fun and refreshing experience) can lead to personal growth and what i would say becoming a better human being. you cant make a ferrari out of a donkey with some doses of lsd. but given the right environment even a dumb person can learn meaningful things for their time being from a couple of psychedelic experiences.

dilemma is that dumb people rarely want to get smarter and bad persons dont want to become better. but psychedelics can help both of these groups of persons.

maybe in another 500 years...

 

[Mjäll]

I feel like some people in this thread aren't really understanding the role of the therapist. As was said earlier, the therapist can provide an outside perspective which you simply cannot arrive at on your own. Everyone has blind spots and areas where they lack experience.

I'm not necessarily a big promotor of therapy either, I think a lot of the time it's not very helpful and in some cases harmful even. However, there are times when it is helpful and those times are when the therapist can help their patient see things they were not able to see before or advise them about issues in which they lacked the knowledge and experience needed to make wise decisions.

Psychedelics do that perspective shifting thing very effectively without a therapist. That is our point. It is a point of autonomy and non-dependence on professional institutions. This is what "psychedelic therapy" should primarily conjure in our minds.

I'm not against therapists. I just think psychedelic therapy can also be done without.