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Prescribing of over the counter med in uk are changing

Wilson Wilson said:
Correct but I also think it's a good sign that the existing OTC meds we have like codeine linctus, co-codamol, Nurofen Plus, Paramol, etc are here to stay because making them prescription only would put even more strain on the NHS. If the push is to cut costs by having patients buy meds OTC instead of wasting NHS resources on those same meds, that's motivation to keep the current stuff OTC.

It may also be motivation to keep allowing those online pharmacies selling private scripts for DHC to keep doing their thing because again that's saving the NHS money as patients pay for their meds privately.

However let's not forget that Pfizer recently got Viagra classed as OTC. It's not too crazy to imagine more drugs might get made OTC in the future. But I imagine most of those would be non-abusable like Viagra.
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Wait, huh?? Viagra will be OTC now??!! Not that I need it, asking for a friend ;)
 
Chris42393 said:
Wait, huh?? Viagra will be OTC now??!! Not that I need it, asking for a friend ;)
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Has been for about a year mate, there's huge posters advertising it in most of the chains! Even seen a few ads on telly. Pop into any pharmacy ask for Viagra. They bring out a questionnaire and basically ask if you have certain conditions or are on certain meds that affect blood pressure. If not they sell Viagra OTC to any male over 18.

Bit expensive though, and it's boxes of 4 or 8 pills and that's it, but part of the reason they allowed it is because so many guys were buying dodgy (often fake) pills from India so they figure why not let them have the real deal. They're 50mg and go by the name "Viagra Connect."

I've bought it before and I'm only in my 20's. Makes me go for a whole fucking hour!
 
Sorry Wilson yeah you are right, I thought in the eurozone they had changed it!!

Do you reckon all the generic OC’s are made on one production Line (Cause they are all identical), then distributed in many brand names? A bit like they do with supermarket beans, all own brand baked beans are from one manufacturer, then labelled for Aldi, Sainsbury’s, and Tesco etc?
 
Shortec Stublue!! said:
Sorry Wilson yeah you are right, I thought in the eurozone they had changed it!!

Do you reckon all the generic OC’s are made on one production Line (Cause they are all identical), then distributed in many brand names? A bit like they do with supermarket beans, all own brand baked beans are from one manufacturer, then labelled for Aldi, Sainsbury’s, and Tesco etc?
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Yes absolutely mate. That's why the Longtec branded pills look literally identical to OC OxyContin. Qdem, makers of Longtec, are owned by Mundipharma, which in turn is the international arm of... you guessed it... Purdue.

I don't think they're all literally made on one assembly line though, they're made in different factories across the world to serve local markets. But Longtec tablets are made by Bard Pharmaceuticals Limited on behalf on Qdem. If you look up Bard Pharmaceuticals you will see the directors also run Mundipharma and Napp (another Purdue arm) as well as many other companies.

Purdue has a lot of different companies it runs its operations under. I wonder if part of that is just to distance its products from Purdue's bad reputation. For example they used to sell OxyContin brand blisters here in the UK. Once their patent expired they could have kept selling the brand name cheaper, which is the usual practice, but instead they got the subsidiary Qdem (which didn't even exist until 2011 according to Companies House) to make the generic version under a new brand name. The pills are the same, but now it's a new brand and a new company, they're distanced from the bad publicity around the OxyContin brand which used to be made by Napp in the UK.

All of it is based in Cambridge too. You look up any UK based Purdue subsidiary, all of it is in Cambridge.
 
Very interesting. Had no idea. I live in the US and its still prescription only. I know of several sources where you can buy Viagra and Cialis powder extremely cheap (which will pretty much last a life time), but didnt know you could just buy it OTC in the UK.
 
Chris42393 said:
Very interesting. Had no idea. I live in the US and its still prescription only. I know of several sources where you can buy Viagra and Cialis powder extremely cheap (which will pretty much last a life time), but didnt know you could just buy it OTC in the UK.
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It's a recent thing. Maybe since 6 months ago or something. But I think it's the equivalent of about $40 for like 6.
 
Chris42393 said:
Very interesting. Had no idea. I live in the US and its still prescription only. I know of several sources where you can buy Viagra and Cialis powder extremely cheap (which will pretty much last a life time), but didnt know you could just buy it OTC in the UK.
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Yeah it is recent, it went through late 2017. UK is the first country to allow Viagra OTC (legally anyway... obviously there's plenty of dodgy countries where pharmacists will just sell it to you regardless of the law haha).

Wouldn't be surprised if it happened in the US next, I'm sure Pfizer are lobbying for it.
 
Wilson my boy, a fountain of knowledge if ever I’ve seen one ?

So much different to the Oxeltra last month, it should be the same, but it is absolurely not. Purdue have just had their donations to London art galleries blocked, the name is seemingly toxic now.
 
Shortec Stublue!! said:
Purdue have just had their donations to London art galleries blocked
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Woah this is significant, the Sackler family have donated serious cash to the arts over the years. But I don't blame those galleries either. I wouldn't want my institution to be associated with a family and an organisation that started a heroin epidemic either.

And they're still going. I had some Yank tell me Purdue is not taken seriously anywhere in the US anymore. I'm like well I'm sure that's true, but it simply does not matter. For one thing they already made over $10 billion from OxyContin sales in the US alone so even if they didn't sell a single pill ever again they're hardly going broke. And for another, they are expanding globally and setting up under the international arm Mundipharma around the world, primarily targeting developing markets like China, Brazil, Portugal, Mexico, Russia, Turkey, Indonesia, Thailand, etc etc... and of course they also want to push into Western Europe where there's plenty of money to be made, including their many arms established here in Cambridge. I have a mate in the Netherlands who tells me it's easy to get oxy over there too. The amount of oxy I see coming from NL backs that claim up. Mostly the Mundipharma brand.

They're well set up to repeat the exact same tactics worldwide. They are handing out tokens so new patients get their first prescription for free... first hit is always free after all. They are putting out videos telling patients that it is impossible to get addicted if they follow their doctor's instructions. They are putting out ads on TV using celebrities to encourage people to see their doctors for aches and pains, while at the same time flying doctors out to resorts and paying "pain specialists" millions to give talks encouraging those doctors to get over their "opiphobia" and prescribe more painkillers.

If you want to read a very good article about Purdue's international expansion check it out here, it's excellent, well researched and comprehensive:

www.latimes.com

OxyContin goes global — “We’re only just getting started”

With the U.S. medical establishment turning away from painkillers, the Sackler family devised a new strategy - put OxyContin into medicine cabinets around the world.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com

Basically they are using identical tactics to what they did in the US.

I'm sure they're working on the NHS too. They would need to target individual practices and CCG's. I have no idea if they're doing this, it's pure speculation on my part, but with so many operations running from the UK it just makes logical sense. I know there's parts of the country where oxy is easy to get prescribed. The guidance from the NHS encourages doctors to write prescriptions for the Longtec brand. So that's Purdue.
 
I saw it in the news, Tate or Tate modern gallery for sure, or whichever one is on Trafalgar Square!!

That Oxeltra I had was very odd now I compare it to this Longtec and my previous OxyContin. Is the latter distribute by Napp @Wilson Wilson?

Are all “OC’s” generics we have, manufactured on mass by us or shipped in?
 
Oh yes it was the Tate.

www.nytimes.com

Tate Galleries Will Refuse Sackler Money Because of Opioid Links (Published 2019)

“In the present circumstances we do not think it right to seek or accept further donations from the Sacklers,” the group said in a statement.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Longtec is OxyContin @Shortec Stublue!! it's literally just rebranded. Even the pills themselves are identical. Just new packaging new logo.

It is manufactured here in the UK by Bard Pharma which is another Purdue subsidiary.

Oxeltra is made by Wockhardt's UK arm. Completely separate company, Indian but with operations all over the world including Europe and the USA. They're just a generics maker. I've had a lot of DHC off them as it happens. They're also one of the companies that makes the codeine/promethazine syrup in the US.

Indian generic pharma companies are on the up and up internationally by the looks of things. I've had Sun Pharma codeine 30mg tabs prescribed for example. Torrent Pharma is another that comes to mind, they make Toroxycon which last I checked was doing the rounds all over the country.
 
Defo nowhere near the same the Oxeltra that’s for sure. The coating is a noticeable factor, looks like it’s made to react in liquid, whereas the OC’s are not.

I think if we were a bigger country it would inevitably end up like the US, but as is we are fine I reckon. You seen the news today @Wilson Wilson about Scotland?
 
Shortec Stublue!! said:
Defo nowhere near the same the Oxeltra that’s for sure. The coating is a noticeable factor, looks like it’s made to react in liquid, whereas the OC’s are not.

I think if we were a bigger country it would inevitably end up like the US, but as is we are fine I reckon. You seen the news today @Wilson Wilson about Scotland?
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Yeah they probably stuck some kind of anti-abuse coating over it. I think Actavis did the same with theirs. Sandoz is alright but the Purdue/Mundipharma/Napp/Qdem or whatever name they invent next are always best.

I think it's not just the size of the country but also the fact strong opioids are not so easily given out on the NHS compared to the US when the opioid epidemic hit. Sure we can very easily get codeine/DHC especially privately but anything stronger is usually harder to get a long-term script for. Usually strong opis are only given on short-term scripts except for people who are dying.

We also have a different drug culture here where pharmas don't make up a huge part of it, largely due to the fact the proper good ones are not easily scripted on the NHS, whereas in the US you had everyone and their dog on OxyContin scripts when it was new, and to this day it seems you got Xanax everywhere. It's funny to me that it's a drug rappers hype up, but at the same time it's got connotations with housewives too, like all types of people throughout society pop pills over there. Sharing prescription pills is just normal in the US even outside of drug user circles, just regular people see it as acceptable to share meds and don't see it as "drug use." That whole pharma culture isn't much of a thing in the UK except amongst drug users. We still see recreational pharmas as "drugs." It's a different culture.

And nah what happened in Scotland?
 
Yeah I get ya @Wilson Wilson, I have had to educate a few gp’s in my time. At a specialist level (Consultant’s) they think outside the box for sure. Mine sanctions anything I suggest if it has a chance of helping. Luckily we have that system of referrals and general practice falls in line.

Scotland is now officially the country with the most drug deaths in the developed world. Even more than the US by population ratios. Been on the news all day. Typical day for a Hagis water is, Opioids + gapapentoids + benzos + alcohol ?
 
Shortec Stublue!! said:
At a specialist level (Consultant’s) they think outside the box for sure. Mine sanctions anything I suggest if it has a chance of helping. Luckily we have that system of referrals and general practice falls in line.
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Yep referrals from specialists trump all else and basically act as a golden ticket. If you got a good one you get better treatment for sure. Main issue NHS-wise is long waiting lists to see one. And if you can afford a private specialist, an NHS GP who doesn't want to play ball is under no obligation to accept a private referral.

What I've done is had a really good GP and seen private specialists since the waiting lists in my area are atrocious mate. But I've seen private specialists, gone to my GP with a private script, and got it sorted on the NHS. Most of the good stuff came from my GP after the initial referrals in fact e.g. increased doses, switching from XR to IR, etc.

Shortec Stublue!! said:
Scotland is now officially the country with the most drug deaths in the developed world. Even more than the US by population ratios. Been on the news all day. Typical day for a Hagis water is, Opioids + gapapentoids + benzos + alcohol ?
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Can't say I'm at all surprised. Scots have heroin for breakfast. I've seen photos of needles all over the ground in public places too. Just more evidence of prohibition doing its thing eh?
 
Yeah that’s the best situation to be in, my Gp will take things into consideration, as oppose to blocking things. If you have a diagnosis like my Ulcerative Colitis they look stupid ignoring a Gastro expert.

Scotland is a tough tough country but they are weak when it comes to substance abuse. Being pissed for them is a right of passage for starters. The rest just follows.
 
Wilson Wilson said:
Yep referrals from specialists trump all else and basically act as a golden ticket. If you got a good one you get better treatment for sure. Main issue NHS-wise is long waiting lists to see one. And if you can afford a private specialist, an NHS GP who doesn't want to play ball is under no obligation to accept a private referral.

What I've done is had a really good GP and seen private specialists since the waiting lists in my area are atrocious mate. But I've seen private specialists, gone to my GP with a private script, and got it sorted on the NHS. Most of the good stuff came from my GP after the initial referrals in fact e.g. increased doses, switching from XR to IR, etc.



Can't say I'm at all surprised. Scots have heroin for breakfast. I've seen photos of needles all over the ground in public places too. Just more evidence of prohibition doing its thing eh?
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Ja, that's about the size of it . . . a lot is made of the 2.8 or 3 per cent of the Scottish population on narcotics, but I am sure that a rash of overdose deaths in Iran, where 75 per cent of the population are on the Big O and other things, would be all over Irna, Reuters, AFP, DPA, and everywhere else, with gloating news stories in the press in the United States. There also never was an "opioid crisis" there -- it is a greedy rehab owner-poison street dope à la methanol-laced booze in the 1920s-gullible citizen crisis . . . .
 
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