Bupe Precipitated withdrawal and your experiences

[sxeandpure]

After some searching, it seems like the consensus is to wait anywhere from 12 to 24 to even 36 hours after dosing a full agonist opiate before taking suboxone. My question is, if I'm starting to withdraw anyway, does the time after my last dose matter? If I took heroin 6 hours ago but am already feeling sick, will I experience precipitated withdrawal if I take a dose of suboxone? And dose the dose of suboxone play any role?

I'm looking for replies from anyone who has experienced precipitated withdrawal or anyone with knowledge on how to avoid it

 

[opiatekrzy]

if you feel withdrawl, typically your ready for a suboxone dose, at the worst u may feel very minimal precip WD...which will go away within 1 or 2 hrs (if ur taking regular opiates, except methadone) i just recently went thru one HELL OF A RECIP WD EXPERIENCE. i was on Methadone for 1 year, got kicked out the clinic, and they slowly detoxed me, i got down to 20mgs, very sick cuz i was on 130, so i was eating 500mg morphine a day on top of the 20mg of meth, and occasionally taking extrra meth pills off the street..i made the choice to call my former suboxone doctor, and we agreed to do a procedure in his private office, so saturday i went in for this "procedure" mind u, i stopped methadone 48hrs in advance, and took my last morphine 24hrs before my sub appt..on saturday i woke up and felt sort of sick, i knew in my head i was not ready to switch to suboxone, even though i felt sick (methadone was the issue, they reccommend 4-5 days off of it, then switching, but they say u got ot be down to atleast 40mg meth to switch). anyways this procedure me and my doctor talked about was going into his office, forcing myself into precip, to get all the methadone and morphine off my receptors..so i walk into his office, he directs me to fill my suboxone at the pharmacy and return, indeed i did. he took me to a back room with a bed, and he said "u dont even know what ur up against, i told u this wasnt a good idea, but if ur serious about getting clean immediately ill do this for you". so i lay on the bed, and took a half a sub (4mg) 20 mins later nothing happpen..so i thought i would be fine since i felt withdrawl from opiates i was using..i figured fuck it, whats a little bit of diarrea and nausea/vomiting for a few hours? boy the physical part of the precip WD, was a cake walk compared to the mental part.,..i felt like i was on a BAD ACID TRIP/combined with the feeling coming down from crack, i was crying over every little thought, it was like nighmare on elm st..then the doctor forced 16 more mgs under my tongue, at this point i was flopping like a fish on the bed, hot sweats cold sweats, the MOST HORRID restless leg feeling, i swear i never shit so much in my life..by me crying so hard i ended puking, as i lay on the bed, with my life passing me by with guilt and shame, and thoughts of death, cemetaries, morgues, and a failure...shaking, 3 hourss had passed, which felt like days, the doctor took my blood pressure, and said im safe to go home and deal with the precip WD ( i thought i would only be in precip WD for 12 hours at the MAX), little do i know, when i got home, i still was flopping like a fish, the peak of the worst, went away, i now felt like i was going thru severe heroin withdrawl (which in precip WD, that feeling is the end of the Precip) being in full Precip WD, is like opana or heroin Withdrawl 100x, literally..i was in Precip WD for literally 3 days..the next 3 weeks after i just felt weak, even taking 3 subs a day, i still get leg cramps, the yawning, teary eyed classic opiate withdrawl feeling..precip WD is NO JOKE....but if ur just a normal opiate user, and u feel mild WD and feel sick enough, its safe to try taking 2mg-4mg to see if u feel better, and if u do go thru precip, it will be real mild for 1-2 hours..now taking suboxone while ur still high on heroin, or clearly not sick at all can def be painful for 10 hours...but methadone coming off of precip WD, i wouldnt wish on my worst enemy..i swear if i had a gun i would of shot myself in the head...thats why the doctor mandated me have a family support thru the whole precip Wd..sorry for rambling off topic...typically, wait 24hrs till u take a suboxone to avoid precip WD, or take a small dose if ur feel withdrawl at all, even if its mild, chances are it iwll be a bit uncomfy for 1-2hrs..man what a rollercoaster ride that was....rule of thumb, only take a sub when u truely feel withdrawl, dont let ur mind think ur sick..just wait for the classic symptoms..yawning eveyr minute, runny nose, diarrea, resltess leg..i been thru precip WD with heroin, it only lasted 1-2hrs, i went thru it cause i wasnt in full withdrawl, but after 2 hrs i felt better, idk this is my body, and experence...sorry for rambling off topic..im on addys and just, well fuked lol

 

[opiatekrzy]

if u took heroin 6 hours ago, and feel sick, its safe to take a low dose, but if ur just "feeling sick" cuz the high is gone, and ur feeling just a bit weak, wait for the classic signs, yanwing, runny nose, restless legs..u know when ur ready

 

[Crashing]

Look no further, just titrate up, take .5 for the first dose then 1mg an hour later then an hour after than take the rest of the dose. Simple and PWD free. Doctors seemingly are unaware of this technique.

 

[opiatekrzy]

very true, try taking 1mg (quarter of a suboxone), DO NOT SNORT OR IV, if ur in that window of hit or miss with precip, as naloxone can still be active to some degree intranasally

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Unless you have the fastest metabolism ever, I highly doubt you are sick enough after only 6 hours to take suboxone and not get PW's.

You can't just be feeling a little crappy, or in that "mentally amping it up" stage after you're starting to feel the slightest bit uncomfortable. You need to be in moderate to severe withdrawals. So, the time doesn't matter, but you need to be honest with yourself about how sick you really are. Everyone is different, but the average is usually around 24 hours. for me personally, I can take suboxone after about 15 hours, but the first day on it is always a bit rough.

The key is to start slow no matter when you start to take it (the longer you wait though, the better the suboxone will work).

 

[sxeandpure]

Unless you have the fastest metabolism ever, I highly doubt you are sick enough after only 6 hours to take suboxone and not get PW's.

You can't just be feeling a little crappy, or in that "mentally amping it up" stage after you're starting to feel the slightest bit uncomfortable. You need to be in moderate to severe withdrawals. So, the time doesn't matter, but you need to be honest with yourself about how sick you really are. Everyone is different, but the average is usually around 24 hours. for me personally, I can take suboxone after about 15 hours, but the first day on it is always a bit rough.

The key is to start slow no matter when you start to take it (the longer you wait though, the better the suboxone will work).

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but my last dose wasn't enough to get me high or anything like that, it was just to postpone WDs as much as I could

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but my last dose wasn't enough to get me high or anything like that, it was just to postpone WDs as much as I could

Still. Using is using. Wait until you're sicker.

The COWS scale can help in determining when the right time to take the bupe is, as long as you're honest on it.

 

[opiatekrzy]

my motto is, if ur feeling sick, that means ur sick, lol..so its time to try taking bupe..heroin has a short half life, many people have to shoot up 3-4 times a day to avoid withdrawl throughout the day, so if its been 6 hours, and ur feeling sick..ur good..but like the man said u need to be honest with urself if ur mentally amped of or really sick...a good example is remembering a time when u had no opiates, and no subs, remember how that felt, if u feel like thatr, chances are ur in mild/moderate withdrawl

methadone on the other hand is a whole other can of worms to even get into, you can feel sick up to 48 hours after ur last dose, and take a sub and go into a hell of precip wd...

 

[cj]

if you feel withdrawl, typically your ready for a suboxone dose, at the worst u may feel very minimal precip WD...which will go away within 1 or 2 hrs (if ur taking regular opiates, except methadone) i just recently went thru one HELL OF A RECIP WD EXPERIENCE. i was on Methadone for 1 year, got kicked out the clinic, and they slowly detoxed me, i got down to 20mgs, very sick cuz i was on 130, so i was eating 500mg morphine a day on top of the 20mg of meth, and occasionally taking extrra meth pills off the street..i made the choice to call my former suboxone doctor, and we agreed to do a procedure in his private office, so saturday i went in for this "procedure" mind u, i stopped methadone 48hrs in advance, and took my last morphine 24hrs before my sub appt..on saturday i woke up and felt sort of sick, i knew in my head i was not ready to switch to suboxone, even though i felt sick (methadone was the issue, they reccommend 4-5 days off of it, then switching, but they say u got ot be down to atleast 40mg meth to switch). anyways this procedure me and my doctor talked about was going into his office, forcing myself into precip, to get all the methadone and morphine off my receptors..so i walk into his office, he directs me to fill my suboxone at the pharmacy and return, indeed i did. he took me to a back room with a bed, and he said "u dont even know what ur up against, i told u this wasnt a good idea, but if ur serious about getting clean immediately ill do this for you". so i lay on the bed, and took a half a sub (4mg) 20 mins later nothing happpen..so i thought i would be fine since i felt withdrawl from opiates i was using..i figured fuck it, whats a little bit of diarrea and nausea/vomiting for a few hours? boy the physical part of the precip WD, was a cake walk compared to the mental part.,..i felt like i was on a BAD ACID TRIP/combined with the feeling coming down from crack, i was crying over every little thought, it was like nighmare on elm st..then the doctor forced 16 more mgs under my tongue, at this point i was flopping like a fish on the bed, hot sweats cold sweats, the MOST HORRID restless leg feeling, i swear i never shit so much in my life..by me crying so hard i ended puking, as i lay on the bed, with my life passing me by with guilt and shame, and thoughts of death, cemetaries, morgues, and a failure...shaking, 3 hourss had passed, which felt like days, the doctor took my blood pressure, and said im safe to go home and deal with the precip WD ( i thought i would only be in precip WD for 12 hours at the MAX), little do i know, when i got home, i still was flopping like a fish, the peak of the worst, went away, i now felt like i was going thru severe heroin withdrawl (which in precip WD, that feeling is the end of the Precip) being in full Precip WD, is like opana or heroin Withdrawl 100x, literally..i was in Precip WD for literally 3 days..the next 3 weeks after i just felt weak, even taking 3 subs a day, i still get leg cramps, the yawning, teary eyed classic opiate withdrawl feeling..precip WD is NO JOKE....but if ur just a normal opiate user, and u feel mild WD and feel sick enough, its safe to try taking 2mg-4mg to see if u feel better, and if u do go thru precip, it will be real mild for 1-2 hours..now taking suboxone while ur still high on heroin, or clearly not sick at all can def be painful for 10 hours...but methadone coming off of precip WD, i wouldnt wish on my worst enemy..i swear if i had a gun i would of shot myself in the head...thats why the doctor mandated me have a family support thru the whole precip Wd..sorry for rambling off topic...typically, wait 24hrs till u take a suboxone to avoid precip WD, or take a small dose if ur feel withdrawl at all, even if its mild, chances are it iwll be a bit uncomfy for 1-2hrs..man what a rollercoaster ride that was....rule of thumb, only take a sub when u truely feel withdrawl, dont let ur mind think ur sick..just wait for the classic symptoms..yawning eveyr minute, runny nose, diarrea, resltess leg..i been thru precip WD with heroin, it only lasted 1-2hrs, i went thru it cause i wasnt in full withdrawl, but after 2 hrs i felt better, idk this is my body, and experence...sorry for rambling off topic..im on addys and just, well fuked lol

Good god that is horrific!!!

 

[sxeandpure]

It's been about 12 hours since my last dose, can I try taking a small amount of sub (.5mg) and seeing if it makes me better or worse?

 

[opiatekrzy]

you sure can, as long as ur feeling some sort of withdrawl or discomfort.., taking a .5 SUBLIGUNALLY is ur safest best to test the water, im pretty damn sure you will make out just fine, if u have suboxone, DEF do not IV or snort it if u are wondering if ur gonna go thru PWD, naloxone to a degree is active when snorted..and that adds a bigger problem along with the bupe alone causing PWD..ur safe dude..0.5mg sublingually is fine, but like i said, be sure ur feeling SOME sort of discomfort or withdrawl.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Can you take Loperamide (if needed for the runs)when switching from a synthetic opiate to bupe ?

Or would the bupe just stop it attaching to the opiate receptors ?

 

[Crashing]

very true, try taking 1mg (quarter of a suboxone), DO NOT SNORT OR IV, if ur in that window of hit or miss with precip, as naloxone can still be active to some degree intranasally

A quarter of a sub is 2mg, i would recommend starting with .5mg. Yes, do not snort or IV for your induction phase, but not because of naloxone. Naloxone doesn't really take effect until you're into the 2-4mg range. The reason to titrate is so the buprenorphine slowly takes over the site, and IVing or snorting allows too much into the receptors too quickly and the user feels a shock. My theory is that the user could take bupe right after doing heroin as long as he took very small dosages at specific intervals to slowly overtake the heroin down at the receptor site.

 

[StartedHydro]

I find what's key in avoiding prec WDs with buprenorphine is the manner in which you take it after a full agonist. For example, your starting to fell sick 6 hours after last dose of full AG, your not fully sick, but partially. So you have a few spots open needing opiate attention. If you take to large a dose of bupe at this point you WILL get sick from prec WDs, because your full AG is stilling occupying some sites. You need to dose very small doses over an extended period of time to slowly fill the open sites without forcing out the full AG which still remains.

In this situation I have learned from past mistakes that if I took doses of 3 + mg I'd get that sickly feeling, but if I started with .5 -1.5 mg every few hours until I felt right I was fine. These doses I refer to are sublingual route. Remember it takes a good thirty to hour and half for buprenorphine to take full effect after sublingual route so give it some time to work before dosing again.

Only time I take really big doses of buprenorphine is if I am in full on WDs without taking a full AG for at least 48 hours... Prec WDs truly are horrific. That O shit feeling that fills you once you realize what's starting to happen if bupe taken to soon is so god awful.... Way way worse that regular WDs.

 

[My9RidesShotgun]

i have a question...can subutex put you in pw since theres no naloxone? ive heard both ways, and im planning the beginning of a hardcore heroin habit kick tomorrow with subutex...so i would love if someone could fill m in on this. thanks!!!!

 

[Flaga121]

^^^yes. Bupe does it in both cases. Higher affinity and all.

 

[EroticaJones84]

my personal experience of just the other day: I rarely use suboxone, only to help withdrawals for a day or two when i need to quit H (which i've only been able to do for maybe a week tops). For about 4 days I had went on a heroin binge with my boyfriend, injecting morning noon and night, while I would usually just shoot up at night/evening as we live with people. I noticed after it ran out after about 6 hours from my last shot i was already feeling like i was withdrawing. I thought I had a day to find some subs at least but I started feeling like shit so after getting some subs, it had been about 10 hours maybe even 8, and I injected half of an 8mg suboxone pill. It did me fine, although I have never really 'gotten high' off of subs, i felt the withdrawals go away after about 10 mins. I had never really done a binge like that before and i have been routinely been doing IV heroin (powder and tar) for over a year now. Before this I waited 24 hours, whether i started to feel the withdrawing or not, to eat or shoot my subs. this time was different i felt the withdrawals sooner than i ever have. this is just my personal experience.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

i have a question...can subutex put you in pw since theres no naloxone? ive heard both ways, and im planning the beginning of a hardcore heroin habit kick tomorrow with subutex...so i would love if someone could fill m in on this. thanks!!!!

Yes it can. It is the bupe itself that causes PW's, not the naloxone, as bupe has a much higher binding affinity so the naloxone can't attach to the receptors. So, any form of bupe, naloxone or not, will cause precipitated withdrawals.

 

[sarajenni88]

I find what's key in avoiding prec WDs with buprenorphine is the manner in which you take it after a full agonist. For example, your starting to fell sick 6 hours after last dose of full AG, your not fully sick, but partially. So you have a few spots open needing opiate attention. If you take to large a dose of bupe at this point you WILL get sick from prec WDs, because your full AG is stilling occupying some sites. You need to dose very small doses over an extended period of time to slowly fill the open sites without forcing out the full AG which still remains.

In this situation I have learned from past mistakes that if I took doses of 3 + mg I'd get that sickly feeling, but if I started with .5 -1.5 mg every few hours until I felt right I was fine. These doses I refer to are sublingual route. Remember it takes a good thirty to hour and half for buprenorphine to take full effect after sublingual route so give it some time to work before dosing again.

Only time I take really big doses of buprenorphine is if I am in full on WDs without taking a full AG for at least 48 hours... Prec WDs truly are horrific. That O shit feeling that fills you once you realize what's starting to happen if bupe taken to soon is so god awful.... Way way worse that regular WDs.

Yes. I went into w/d after about 15 hrs or so after taking Opana and Vicodin. I wasn't sure if I was sick enough to take my suboxen, but I was tired of waiting. So I took a VERY small piece off the strip (probably .5 mg) and let in dissolve under my tongue. After about 15 mins I started to feel that hot flash I associate with PW/D. I got a little shaky & had a hard time concentrating. But, I got lucky. These very mild PW/D symptoms went away after 5 minutes or so. And I redosed again after 20 mins (another small piece, probably 1mg). I continued this until I felt okay. So yes, the amount of bupe you take will GREATLY affect the severity of precipitated w/ds.