• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Pre-084

Available? There are hundreds of sigma 1 receptor agonists out there, what makes this one special? Why would it have any use to the drug community? Don't get me wrong, the s1r is hot, but I don't see the point of this thread.

EDIT: There is no recreational value in this. DMT seems to be the endogenous s1r ligand, but that's probably not where the subjective effects come from. There are plenty of other recreational drugs that bind to s1r's, e.g. PCP, cocaine, methamphetamine.
 
not enough real evidence to claim DMT as endogenous.
 
not enough real evidence to claim DMT as endogenous.
There's plenty. When have you last researched this? There's been a lot going on in the past 3 years. I'll try to post some articles tonight or maybe tomorrow if I have the energy. There really is no reason to believe DMT would not be endogenous. It's transported to the brain extremely quickly where it binds to at least 3 different receptors (5HT2r, vesicular monoamine transporter 2, sigma1r, in that order) and is apparently being stored for quite some time. Why would the body do this with an exogenous monoamine? We definitely express enzymes needed for DMT synthesis, too. We have also found DMT being excreted in urine without the subject having previously consumed it, haven't we?

I don't think many physiologists out there doubt that DMT is endogenous, the bigger question is what role it plays and if it really is the most important endogenous ligand for s1r's.

I'll try to post articles.

EDIT: Btw I never was a fan of those wild claims about endogenous DMT by whatever his name was. He was just speculating without any evidence whatsoever. I am still impressed that he was right about it though.
 
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Maybe i'm a bit n00b but I don't think i've ever even heard of sigma receptors, anyone care to do a quick summary before I delve into journals?
 
Available? There are hundreds of sigma 1 receptor agonists out there, what makes this one special? Why would it have any use to the drug community? Don't get me wrong, the s1r is hot, but I don't see the point of this thread.

EDIT: There is no recreational value in this. DMT seems to be the endogenous s1r ligand, but that's probably not where the subjective effects come from. There are plenty of other recreational drugs that bind to s1r's, e.g. PCP, cocaine, methamphetamine.

I'm interested in this chemical precisely because many things bind to the s1 receptor and it's function is not fully understood. Wikipedia lists it as having nootropic and antidepressant effects and I was just looking to see if anybody could corroborate this. In particular I would be interested in the dosage used as the only reference I can find for a dosage is a paper administering 60mg/kg in mice and observing anti-depressent effects. Any other selective s1 agonists are of interest for the same reason this is just one which I've see being sold and I figured there must be a reason this one was picked.
 
I'm interested in this chemical precisely because many things bind to the s1 receptor and it's function is not fully understood. Wikipedia lists it as having nootropic and antidepressant effects and I was just looking to see if anybody could corroborate this. In particular I would be interested in the dosage used as the only reference I can find for a dosage is a paper administering 60mg/kg in mice and observing anti-depressent effects. Any other selective s1 agonists are of interest for the same reason this is just one which I've see being sold and I figured there must be a reason this one was picked.
Low dose DXM seems to exhibit the antidepressant effects which are partially based on s1r agonism. It's extremely cheap over here and available in otc capsules. It is also an NMDA agonist (and many other things) as you will probably know. Definitely the best starting point for an antidepressant other than SNRI's/SSRI's (though I think DXM is an ssri too lol). If there is going to be a new class of antidepressants, I'm sure we will hear about that, but I personally wouldn't mess with these experimental compounds for the time being. As far as I know none of the s1r agonists that have been clinically used have been very promising.

Maybe i'm a bit n00b but I don't think i've ever even heard of sigma receptors, anyone care to do a quick summary before I delve into journals?
Basically it's a receptor that's located on the endoplasmic reticulum and which seems to regulate a lot of ion channels, it's very far upstream and does a wide range of things, most of which we don't understand very well. It's dysfunction also seems to be involved in many pathological behavioural phenomena like addiction, gambling, depression, schizophrenia, but also sigma receptors are abundantly expressed outside the brain, e.g. in the heart or on cancer cells (the latter s2r if I'm not mistaken). It's very abundant in the brain and therefore seems to be pretty important, but there isn't much scientific effort being focussed on understanding it. There has been a clinical studie for comorbid depression and coronary heart disease if I am not mistaken and with improved affective status the changes the heart had undergone became reversed to some degree as well (I found that one impressive).

There is an excellent review out there that's relatively new. I can look it up if you like.
 
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Low dose DXM seems to exhibit the antidepressant effects which are partially based on s1r agonism. It's extremely cheap over here and available in otc capsules. It is also an NMDA agonist (and many other things) as you will probably know. Definitely the best starting point for an antidepressant other than SNRI's/SSRI's (though I think DXM is an ssri too lol). If there is going to be a new class of antidepressants, I'm sure we will hear about that, but I personally wouldn't mess with these experimental compounds for the time being. As far as I know none of the s1r agonists that have been clinically used have been very promising.

Maybe I should clarify, I'm not interested in antidepressants per se. I'm merely interested in this compound out of a curiousity with regards to the function of the sigma-1 receptor. Whatever it's effects, even if it's completely inert, I'm interested in hearing about it. Of course something even mildly psychoactive would be more interesting.
 
The distinction is its selectivity: the vast majority of s1 and s2 agonists have stronger auxiliary activities.

ebola
 
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Are there any experience with this ?

What are the effect of a SR1 agonist anyway ? Like ebola said its selective SR1 and I never tried any of them so im pretty curious about this, I just cant bear not knowing its effect...
 
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Low dose DXM seems to exhibit the antidepressant effects which are partially based on s1r agonism. It's extremely cheap over here and available in otc capsules. It is also an NMDA agonist (and many other things) as you will probably know. Definitely the best starting point for an antidepressant other than SNRI's/SSRI's (though I think DXM is an ssri too lol). If there is going to be a new class of antidepressants, I'm sure we will hear about that, but I personally wouldn't mess with these experimental compounds for the time being. As far as I know none of the s1r agonists that have been clinically used have been very promising.

Basically it's a receptor that's located on the endoplasmic reticulum and which seems to regulate a lot of ion channels, it's very far upstream and does a wide range of things, most of which we don't understand very well. It's dysfunction also seems to be involved in many pathological behavioural phenomena like addiction, gambling, depression, schizophrenia, but also sigma receptors are abundantly expressed outside the brain, e.g. in the heart or on cancer cells (the latter s2r if I'm not mistaken). It's very abundant in the brain and therefore seems to be pretty important, but there isn't much scientific effort being focussed on understanding it. There has been a clinical studie for comorbid depression and coronary heart disease if I am not mistaken and with improved affective status the changes the heart had undergone became reversed to some degree as well (I found that one impressive).

There is an excellent review out there that's relatively new. I can look it up if you like.

DXM is an NMDA antagonist
 
I always thought sigma agonists were enhancers to compounds. Meaning if it had sigma activation it would enhance all receptor activity to a relative degree, like we see with Noscapine and Heroin or DMT itself. It effectively provides a blast to the compound, which results in much tighter binding affinity and results which show a much heavier payload of all neurotransmitter activity. So say you add PRE-084 to a hallucinogen such as 2C-B, it would result in a much heavier psychedelic experience than without.

I'm still $200 short of testing this theory though, so I cannot adequately confirm this result. However, I really want to try it soon.
 
Meaning if it had sigma activation it would enhance all receptor activity
While s1r activity indeed has an impact on the function of almost every ion channel, a lot of receptors' activity is actually reduced. There's an excellent review on sigma receptors, which unfortunately I couldn't find when I just looked for it. I ought to try again tomorrow, since I'll be going back to bed in a sec.

It is proposed that some of the effects (particularly nerve growth) of SSRI's are mediated by sigma 1 receptors. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24508523 (Interestingly, ssri's also seem to cause upregulation of s1r in heart cells. There also seems to be some correlation between multiple forms of heart disease and depression.)

This article might be of interest: "Modulation of serotonergic neurotransmission by short- and long-term treatments with sigma ligands." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11588125

Think I can get full texts for most of those, but I should really try to find that review for you, it's very good!

Sorry, the post is all over the place. Only thing I was originally trying to say is that the s1r can both enhance and reduce the activity of a number of receptors. I didn't know you were really trying try this out on yourself, I'd love to support you but can't really afford it with how little money is coming in atm.


EDIT: Btw certain sigma 1 receptor agonists also seem to block the effects of PCP, since DXM was mentioned here. Both DXM and PCP are agonists at s1r's themself.
 
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Achh...Why is sigma so damn complex?!

It seems to act in one way in one compound then completely differently in another. No worries by the way, I'll get around to it someday and I'll test it with everything possible to see just how it acts. Though the thing is, PRE-084 could act completely differently to another sigma agonist, so the testing could be completely worthless when looking at the sigma receptor as a whole! If anyone could come up with a way to test it properly it would be greatly appreciated, as it seems we're coming up with short straws all over the shop.

EDIT: I may try to source some Noscapine to see if it differs in any way to the PRE-084 as well. Of course everything would be done at appropriate levels and dosages, so nothing would get confused. I'd also start at the ug level with everything and work my way up.
 
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