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Possible rare LSD overdose in Cotton death

nuke said:
He had 10600 mcg/l -- the average person after receiving an average dose of LSD (2mcg/kg) has a blood level of 1-5 mcg/l, and this is only within say an hour of dosing. The half life of LSD in plasma is just a few hours (though LSD gets stuck to serotonin receptors in the brain a while longer). I'd guess this person had taken at least 250mg of LSD, to have that sort of plasma LSD when having died after several hours in custody.

Thumbprints are pretty sweet, hey guys? :\

( more info: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_pharmacology1.shtml )

How do you know he had that taken that amount?
 
nuke said:
He had 10600 mcg/l --

That article states that he had 10.6 NANOgrams per MILLiliter- not mcg per liter. Where did you cook this shit up from?
 
willow11 said:
That article states that he had 10.6 NANOgrams per MILLiliter- not mcg per liter. Where did you cook this shit up from?

Oh right. That'd be 10.6 micrograms/ml, which isn't as much, but still a fair amount (maybe a 300-500mcg oral dose).
PS: You're mean, Mr. Willow.
 
Last edited:
300-500mcg is nowhere near a lethal dose the reason that lsd overdoses are so rare is it takes an incredible amount to be toxic the numbers quoted in this story dont add up to a fatal dose not even close


i would assume that there is an error in the reporting
 
nuke said:
Oh right. That'd be 10.6 micrograms/ml, which isn't as much, but still a fair amount (maybe a 300-500mcg oral dose).
PS: You're mean, Mr. Willow.

I'll repeat willow (and add a 'm') cause you still don't get it.: That article states that he had 10.6 NANOgrams per MILLiliter- not mcg per ml.

10.6ng/ml = 0.0106mcg/ml not 10.6mcg/ml

(there are 1000 nanograms in a microgram)

I'll try and clarify the maths for you. There are roughly 5 litres of blood in the body. 5 litres is 5000ml, and in each ml there are 0.0106mcg of LSD, multiply 0.0106 by 5000 and you get roughly 50 micrograms (quite a low level). Gettit?
 
What I don't understand is how come the police weren't willing to take him into custody without using excess force. Police get special training, so I thought, to subdue people without injuring them. Especially for situations like this, where the person is crazy or out of his mind. If it were only one cop trying to subdue him alone, maybe I could see how he could have been acidently injured if the cop was too weak or lacked the skill to h andle him alone, but with a mob of cops subduing him, there's no reason anyone should have been hurt.
Somebody already said it, and I agree: I think police brutality is more likely the cause of his death and the police chief's brother-in-law, the county coroner, will cover it up.
 
UPDATE FROM REDWOOD CURTAIN COPWATCH


Since Redwood Curtain CopWatch learned of the Thursday August 9th death of Martin “Fred” Cotton II, we have spoken with many witnesses and other community members regarding the events leading to Martin’s death. Immediately after the Sheriff’s Department sent a press release (on the afternoon of August 10th), local papers wrote ‘stories’ simply parroting the police account and criminalizing Martin. People’s reports to Redwood Curtain CopWatch and to ACLU members share many common threads; facts and perspectives that stand out starkly against the police account.


Martin was pepper sprayed and then beaten severely by the Eureka Police Department [EPD]; a sack was thrown over his head and he was taken to jail. There, we believe he was further beat by Sheriff’s and possibly also EPD officers. The man next to the cell where Martin died witnessed officers dragging Martin, who was hooded and handcuffed, into a cell. Multiple officers (but no medical staff) then went into the cell. After 15 minutes of intense thumping and moaning coming from the cell, the officers exited, and no further noise came from the cell. The man in the adjacent cell was soon released. According to the Sheriff’s Dept, Martin died two hours after booking.


Martin, known to be manic-depressive, was involved in a confrontation at the Eureka Rescue Mission on Aug. 9th, just weeks before his 27th birthday. Rescue Mission staff called the police, who arrived after Martin, unarmed, had already been ejected from the Mission. The EPD officers, whose names continue to be withheld by EPD, immediately pepper sprayed Martin, kicked him, beat him with night sticks, and punched him with fists—for up to 20 minutes by many accounts. EPD pummeled Martin all over his body, including heavily attacking his kidney area and his legs while he was face down on the concrete. Each witness with whom we have separately and independently spoken regarding the attack by EPD has said at least five officers inflicted the beating, with several more present at the scene. Not one such witness observed Martin threatening or attacking the police. Many people present explicitly stated that Martin never reached for an officer’s baton. All witnesses have expressed trauma at watching what they explained as an unwarranted, long-lasting, and deadly beating.


EPD officers intimidated people attempting to photograph the public incident; one woman trying to take photos on a cell phone was reportedly threatened to put the phone away or it would be taken from her.


Eureka Mission House Manager, Bryan Hall, ordered some of the men who reside at the Mission and were witnessing the brutality to go inside after several minutes of the beating. Bryan, who made the call to police, was the only person from the Mission to attend the so-called Town Hall meeting featuring EPD Chief, Garr Nielsen, on Thursday August 16th. Bryan defended the police and told a very different story than we have heard from all other witnesses. It is our informed belief that the men who stay at the Mission were not allowed to attend the meeting to share their stories. Additionally, many of the witnesses, who already suffer from police harassment and abuse, are fearful of retaliation if they were to step forward.


On the 16th, Chief Nielsen admitted that he had not read a report from the incident, yet since his very first interview on the matter he has insisted, without a doubt, that ‘his’ officers were warranted in their actions. At the same time he has consistently criminalized Martin and justified the killing with speculations of methamphetamine use, even going so far as to blame Martin for his own death. At the Thursday meeting Nielsen spoke of a Sheriffs’ film showing Martin banging his head on the walls of the jail. Nielsen repeatedly expressed relief stemming from his belief that Martin banged his own head to death, rather than being killed by officers. Two days after the meeting, Nielsen admitted that he had not seen such a film. Throughout the “Town Hall” meeting, (actually occurring in a private restaurant owned by the mayor), the chief seemed far more concerned with the EPD public image than with the tragic death of another human being.


Martin is the 6th person killed by the hands and weapons of local police officers (all involving EPD) in the past 2 years. Martin’s death was perhaps the most brutal. Lawsuits have been filed against the City of Eureka by 3 other victim’s families. The District Attorney and the police have, regarding each incident, claimed that the force used by officers was justified. A former cop and 28-year forensic ballistics expert explains,

“...with the thousands of police involved shootings that have occurred, there are few where the officer or department has admitted a mistake or error in judgment; the department usually investigates its own shooting incidents and clears themselves and the officer of any wrongdoing.”


EPD is now using results of a toxicology report to further criminalize Martin and distract from EPD officers’ behavior - behavior that is unacceptable and unwarranted in any circumstances. As the EPD has scrambled to explain the death, the story has changed from methamphetamine overdose, to self-inflicted head injury, to LSD poisoning. This current theory is particularly laughable, considering that there are no documented cases of lethal LSD overdose in humans. The reported value of 10.6 ng/ml is well within peak blood plasma levels expected to result from common dosage. The coroner’s interpretation of the toxicology report is seriously flawed; it is a thinly veiled attempt to justify murder. Redwood Curtain CopWatch defies coroner Frank Jager to produce any peer reviewed scientific literature validating his claims of LSD’s toxicity.


No officers involved in the deaths of Martin and others have been tested for drug or steroid use.


Although Martin was severely injured from the cruel and undeserved beating, EPD took him directly to jail to die, rather than immediately bringing him to the hospital. Neither Nielsen nor any jail employee (Sheriff’s Dept) has indicated that Martin was seen by medical staff while in their custody, until he was dead. This is unacceptable and adds to the outrage that we feel.


Even if one were to ignore the deadly beating inflicted by police in front of the Mission and accept Neilson’s ‘theory’ that Martin, high on LSD, banged his own head to death, the police would still be responsible; Martin was ‘in their custody’.


Martin was houseless... And he is someone's son, grandson-- and a brother and friend to others. We are tired of community members dying at the hands of police. Killing by EPD cannot be seen as a mistake-- it is EPD’s modus operandi, and it must stop.


Redwood Curtain CopWatch believes that as a community we can work towards creating real justice that heals and transforms rather than destroys and erases. Police violence does not make us safe. The police, as a structural component of our society, have not outgrown their long legacy of protecting the rich ‘from the poor’; and have accelerated their practice of further marginalizing the people most trampled by our socio-economic system.


We have experienced, documented, and heard stories about the consistent abuse of people who have mental health issues and of people who are homeless. These targeted populations are integral parts of our neighborhoods and families. (Martin was one of 3.3 million people in the U.S. diagnosed as manic-depressive.) People who are in crisis need help not violence. The police believe they can treat many of us like we are ‘scum’, like we cannot feel pain--our bodies and lives worthless, can be exploited and violently disposed. In contrast, Redwood Curtain CopWatch wants to create grass-roots support networks that respect, nurture, and heal the community; exploring true conflict resolution that has nothing to do with the police.


Please help us imagine creative alternatives to the violence of police. Let's work towards justice that is nourished by knowing our neighbors, taking care of each other, and relating to each other as dignified human beings.


http://sandiego.craigslist.org/pol/408392791.html
 
Thanks for posting the update, that is some seriously fucked up shit!!!
 
thats so horrible, that would be the worst trip ever and an even worse way to pass.
 
ranunky said:
I'll repeat willow (and add a 'm') cause you still don't get it.: That article states that he had 10.6 NANOgrams per MILLiliter- not mcg per ml.

10.6ng/ml = 0.0106mcg/ml not 10.6mcg/ml

(there are 1000 nanograms in a microgram)

I'll try and clarify the maths for you. There are roughly 5 litres of blood in the body. 5 litres is 5000ml, and in each ml there are 0.0106mcg of LSD, multiply 0.0106 by 5000 and you get roughly 50 micrograms (quite a low level). Gettit?

To have died after several hours in custody with that level, that's still means he didn't take a small dose of LSD. But, yes, from a toxicology standpoint that shouldn't be dangerous at all.
 
^^^^ The unknown is how many hours passed between ingestion and death. The half-life of LSD is almost as debatable as the LD50, and I'm sure it can vary somewhat within the same person depending on physiological conditions.
 
That update is just horrible. Fuck police brutality! They have had 6 police deaths in the last two years?! What the hell!? :X
 
kush86 said:
funny how the media writes how rare LSD is in the Humboldt County area ( what!?!?) but somehow somebody, in spite of it's rarity managed to ingest (acidentally or not) enough to overdose.

They said it is rare for an overdose.
 
That so screwed up. Police Brutality =/

If he was on a dose of LSD high enough to kill him, he would be lying on the floor drooling, with no hopes of ever coordinating his limbs enough to even stand up, much the less hurt anyone.
 
^ what makes you think that? Have you ever experienced an LSD overdose? Do you have sources that outline what physical effects an LSD overdose would cause?

As this article itself even says, LSD overdoses are incredibly rare, so before I disregard what you have said as being a misinformed statement, if you have something that says an LSD overdose leaves you incapacitated, id love to see it.

The reason I doubt (doubt is even too strong of a word. I dont want to say youre wrong, because I dont even know if you are wrong or not, and I dont even want to say I doubt it, because that still implies that you are wrong, which I dont yet know if you are or not.) that is because all drugs dont just knock you out and leave you motionless when you OD on them. Depressants are more likely to do so, while stimulants dont always. See what Im sayin?
 
^Iforget. What makes you think you are an expert?
See what I’m saying? What a fucking idiot.
 
All he was saying was that theres no reason to think an LSD OD would incapacitate you.
 
I am just saying that I doubt he is an expert but,
doubt is even too strong of a word. I dont want to say he is not an expert, because I dont even know if he is an expert or not, and I dont even want to say he is not an expert, because that still implies that he is not an expert, which I dont yet know if he is or not.

See what I’m saying?
 
Yes, but how do you define an "LSD overdose"?

It could mean someone not mentally prepared/stable freaking out on 1/2 a blotter.

It could mean someone mistaking acid for cocaine, snorting 50 mg of pure crystal, and going to the ER in a coma with hyperthermia and systemic bleeding.

Or it could mean taking too much to handle, getting in a fight with cops, and winding up in the morgue.
 
luckytaak said:
I am just saying that I doubt he is an expert but,
doubt is even too strong of a word. I dont want to say he is not an expert, because I dont even know if he is an expert or not, and I dont even want to say he is not an expert, because that still implies that he is not an expert, which I dont yet know if he is or not.

See what I’m saying?

Genious ahahahaa
 
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