Possible danger from combining a 5ht1a agonist and a psychedelic like LSD?

[Doldrugs]

I started vortioxetine. Could taking psychedelics on it have adverse effects? Or is the danger similar to combining psychs with SSRIs?

 

[perpetualdawn]

Since LSD is itself a 5ht1a agonist, I would guess that no there shouldn't be a danger with combining it with a 5ht1a agonist specifically. I'm amateur of amateurs though, so I hope someone with more authority/knowledge pipes up.

edit: it looks like vortioxetine is also a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, that would concern me more than it being a 5ht1a agonist. I can't remember how SRIs interact with PDs though, since it's not something I've ever had to worry about. Probably you wouldn't want to combo it with MDMA.

 

[Doldrugs]

Since LSD is itself a 5ht1a agonist, I would guess that no there shouldn't be a danger with combining it with a 5ht1a agonist specifically. I'm amateur of amateurs though, so I hope someone with more authority/knowledge pipes up.

Is doubling up at the receptor likely to cause serotonin syndrome, though? I really know nothing about this.

edit: it looks like vortioxetine is also a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, that would concern me more than it being a 5ht1a agonist. I can't remember how SRIs interact with PDs though, since it's not something I've ever had to worry about. Probably you wouldn't want to combo it with MDMA.

Right, I actually specifically waited to start the medication because I thought I was getting MDMA. I figured, hey this is one of the only times I'll be off this kind of medication so I can finally try this. But then it turned out to be methylone or butylone or some shit so I didn't do it.

Does anyone know how SRIs interact with psychedelics differently than SSRIs?

 

[Kl519]

Isn't vortioxetine an SSRI too? It sounds really familiar.

If it is an SSRI, it's not dangerous to combine it with mdma. It will just blunt the effects to make it pretty useless, at least in most cases. What should be avoided are MAOIs for sure.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm also not too well versed in these matters, so someone else will have to go to bat next. Because I have no idea how psychs would interact with vortioxetine.

Good luck and feel better man.

 

[Doldrugs]

No. It's an SRI and a 5ht1a agonist.

 

[Kl519]

Really? I see, maybe I should've looked it up first. =P

Still, good luck with it and I hope you find your answer.

 

[Doldrugs]

For the record, SSRIs don't make psychedelics useless. At least not for everyone.

 

[Kl519]

Hmm, do you consider mdma a psychedelic? It technically is one, but imo it's a rather weak one...

Yeah, I kind of said that in my first post. Outliers are always possible. But I think the people on SSRIs, who experience negligible effects when taking mdma, are those who take their SSRIs for a long time and/or at high doses. My guess is that the people who don't experience negligible effects haven't been on it for that long or take low doses. This is just what I've observed firsthand though, with only two different people.

Have you tried asking your doctor about mixing psychedelics and vortioxetine? Or if you wanted, you could find one of those "ask a doctor" websites and see what he/she says. Of course, it's the obligatory grain of salt, just like this post.

 

[SteamboatBillJr]

Show caution if you mention illicit drug use with your doctor. Any illegal drug use could get put in your medical record as the substance abuse disorder diagnosis. A few doctors ignore this policy some don't. I do not talk about my recent drug use with doctors. Taking prescribed pain killers, drinking, and smoking aren't substance abuse disorders.* Consuming any illegal psychoactive, regardless of frequency, is considered substance abuse disorder. I hope our societal views on drug use change.

 

[Kl519]

What makes you think that? Unless you are a minor, patient-doctor confidentiality is strictly enforced. Unless required by law, such as a court order, then authorities can look into those records without consequences.

I highly doubt all that. At least thousands of people go to their doctors for medical help concerning illicit drug use, whether it's at their gp or an emergency hospital. They are there to save lives, hopefully, and not ruin them.

Prescription pain killers, drinking and smoking aren't substance abuse disorders?? Lololol. Prescriptions are still narcotics. Some prime examples are adderall and vicodin. Do you not know what AA is? Nicotine isn't a substance? They also have rehab for everything; illegal, prescriptions, alcohol and even smoking cigs. The definition of substance abuse is an abuse of a substance, wow, and it doesn't matter what kind.

This fear mongering of yours is very annoying. Your pestering of anything that has to do with me, indirectly or not, is also extremely weird. I advise you to lose this obsession and find a different hobby.

Edit: Btw, I didn't need Google for any of that. It's called life experience. Have fun wasting hours trying to disprove what I say. And having an open-minded approach helps too.

 

[Peacephrog1972]

If agree.....being in the medical field I would never tell my doctor about my drug use.....they are above HIPPA law.....they shouldn't be, those laws were made for everyone, but when it comes down to it, they are above it....I have personal experience and have seen it

 

[CrypticArc]

It would probably lead to a significant decrease in psychedelic effects. MDMA acts much more heavily on serotonin receptors, that's why it's so psychedelic compared to many other amphetamines which work on dopamine and norepinephrine. This is just a guess but it would probably compete at the receptor site as well as prevent reuptake on your serotonin receptors, making the MDMA feel less psychedelic and more like a traditional amph or maybe a little like bk-mdma

 

[Kl519]

If agree.....being in the medical field I would never tell my doctor about my drug use.....they are above HIPPA law.....they shouldn't be, those laws were made for everyone, but when it comes down to it, they are above it....I have personal experience and have seen it

I feel bad for you. What was the situation you were in to cause this breach? This is what lawyers are here for though. They are useful in real situations.

You should never have to tolerate things like that. You did nothing wrong except to try to get help. You (or others) could get compensation if that really happened, and if your confidentiality was broken in a way that affected you negatively.

I would also be hesitant to tell them if it wasn't an emergency. But if I was really concerned or wanted to know something, I would ask/tell them. Or like I said, use those ask a doctor websites. That's pretty risk free, though their advice might be half-assed (eg. go see a doctor...what).

-_-

 

[Doldrugs]

No I will not be telling my doctor about my psychedelic use. Whether it's wrong or illegal or not means nothing. It's not worth the risk for me. I can't afford to pay the legal fees, miss work, or deal with the anxiety of the situation if it goes bad. I have a great doctor but again it's not worth the risk.

 

[St3ve]

From wikipedia:

Serotonin transporter (SERT) blocker (i.e. serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SRI)) — Ki (binding affinity) = 1.6 nM, IC50 = 5.4 nM
Norepinephrine transporter (NET) blocker — Ki = 113 nM
5-HT1A receptor high-efficacy partial agonist/near-full agonist — Ki = 15 nM, IA = 80%
5-HT1B receptor partial agonist — Ki = 33 nM
5-HT1D receptor antagonist — Ki = 54 nM
5-HT3A receptor antagonist — Ki = 3.7 nM
5-HT7 receptor antagonist — Ki = 19 nM

Vortioxetine also has affinity for the β1-adrenergic receptor (Ki = 46 nM)

The 5ht3a antagonism should help reduce nausea associated with psychs. Affinity for the other 5HT receptors might increase/decrease the perceived effects or otherwise contaminate the experience. The NRI properties will increase heart rate and blood pressure and might contribute to anxiety. The SRI properties will probably reduce the overall effects of psychedelics.

IMO it doesn't sound like the best thing to mix with psychs. It'll likely blunt the experience and might make undesirable side effects worse, except maybe nausea .

 

[Doldrugs]

I can handle that stuff. I'm concerned about increased possibility of serotonin syndrome as compared to combining a serotonergic psychedelic with an SSRI. Does anyone know if that's a possibility here?

 

[Peacephrog1972]

My attorney basicly told me that no judge is going to slap a doctor on rhe wrist for breaking HIPPA, and that any type of Action i would try and tKe against him would be wasted