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Possible CNS activity of a major methoxetamine synthesis impurity?

What is the point in speculating about this until someone actually posts some analysis from multiple samples of methoxetamine found in the field? Random MS doesn't count.

Here's the mass spectrum of a very common impurity in MXE (second graphic), is it 1-(ethylamino)cyclopentyl](3-methoxyphenyl)methanone?
Click to expand...

^ useless.
 
The GC shows one significant peak with a very tiny impurity, all that tells us is that the sample they analysed is very pure. It means nothing in relation to the methoxetamine people around the world are coming into contact with.
 
The other thing that GC output says is that the methoxetamine they analysed has nothing like the quantity of the 'significant impurity' the DEA found in their synth.
 
skillet said:
recrystallisation from EtOH or iPrOH.
Click to expand...

Have some slightly dirty MXE on my hands, and thought this might be a fun little experiment. If I were to attempt a recrystallization with isopropranol, what proportion of solvent to solute should I use? Any guesses as to the solubility of methoxetamine HCl in isopropanol?
 
1. dissolve as much solute as you can in boiling solvent
2. wait
 
back in the days i wondered alot about the differnt mxe effects. nice to see that there have been some discussions.
also here is an interesting point about rc polymorphism: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=208035

i have had both the clean white powder and the off white sandy thing.

first experiences were with the sandy thing and i loved it. its all i ever wanted. after that i unfortunatly got the white powder from an source everybody loved into heaven. but it wasnt what i wanted. at first i was perplex becourse in the head the effects where just like the mxe i knew. but it was missing its special something, and it took me a while to understand that.
i thought alot about what the reason could be, but i gave up and was just happy, that there also was the sandy stuff.
the white poweder reminded me from the body effect of amphetamine, that way it closes the heart. uninteresting for me.
the sandy stuff on the other hand is beautiful. a subtile difference that changes the hole thing. no closing the heart, just sun and love in the heart and a spiritual feeling.

it would be very interesting to find out what its really about. are there any news?
does the sandy or white powder look really relate to eu or chinese batch?
 
Sorry, dude, I don't buy it. Polymorphs usually refer to changes in crystal structure, which alter the solubility, density, and possibly absorbtion, but claiming that there are different "forms" of MXE that produce widlyl different effects is just silly - just like claiming that "XTC Pills" are "either smack or speed based". The salt form of a drug will not radically alter the effects - especially if it's dissolved in solution.

I offer you an absolute guarantee that the people mumbling about "polymorphisms" lack any sort of analytical equipment besides being willing consumers of "research chemicals". Subjective bioassay is a shitty method for testing purity and cannot be relied on as a sole point of evidence.

Better explanation is: tolerance, changes in set/setting, and changes in purity/products being sold.
 
hei there :) no need to buy anything.
actually i really dont know about polymorphism. was just including it into conversation.
i always thought it might has to do with stereoisomery. well i know no company nwould make an seperation for this purpose, but maybe through different precursers, but my knowledge here is to little.
but theres also a huge difference between d-amphetamin and the d/l form. the d/l form closes my heart way more trough the periferic effects of the l-part.

for this is quite an important subject. as i told before the 1 kind (it was always sandy so far) i loved the sandy and the fine powder i throw away. and both batches were claimed to be high quality by the comunity.
and both where in the mental effects and dose response so similar, that its difficult to think they are different substances.
and yet the white powderey kind closed my heart and the sandy kind opens it and let the sun shine.

and i can surely say that this is not relate to dose set or setting. maybe impuritys possible that the sandy part has some residues from the reaction that block 1 kind of receptors so the mxe cant affect it.

i hope some day someone has the oportunity to analyse both kinds and we know what the difference is...
 
given the only 3 metrics of "purity" testing by most MXE users are: physical appearance, what the vendor says it was, and bioassay, I don't see any point in drawing conclusions.

I bought 10 grams from one of the oldest and most respected european vendors,
Click to expand...

EVERYONE is a super respected, trusted 100% vendor, but yet there is still product variability. it makes me think that people might consider doing, say, paper chromatography, or reagent tests, or melting point tests THEMSELVES, INDEPENDENTLY, SO THE VENDOR CANNOT EFFECT THE RESULTS! to test their compounds and get reliable data?

This is a Tan MDPV scenario, round two. sekio out.
 
sekio said:
given the only 3 metrics of "purity" testing by most MXE users are: physical appearance, what the vendor says it was, and bioassay, I don't see any point in drawing conclusions.



EVERYONE is a super respected, trusted 100% vendor, but yet there is still product variability. it makes me think that people might consider doing, say, paper chromatography, or reagent tests, or melting point tests THEMSELVES, INDEPENDENTLY, SO THE VENDOR CANNOT EFFECT THE RESULTS! to test their compounds and get reliable data?

This is a Tan MDPV scenario, round two. sekio out.
Click to expand...

^^^^^ THIS.

If all else fails, there are several organizations that will run GC/MS tests on random powders for a fee. The fee is usually not much more than one would spend on a decent sized sample of these chems. For those who do not have local access to high quality analytical instruments this is always an option. Talking about subjective effects is just too unpredictable. Considering that we know next to nothing about many (most) of these compounds, the subjective difference could come from what you ate that day to individual differences in enzyme morphology, and everything in between. Consider if the connection between MAOIs and certain foods were not known. Would people be debating whether the reason that some people consumed them without ill effects while others suffered hypertensive crises was due to a 'batch impurity' in the 'yellow batch?' I'm not saying an impurity with it's own unique effects is impossible or even unprecedented (MPTP anyone), but it shouldn't be considered as the only option.
 
Whilst this may be both ignorant and irrelevant (and please excuse said ignorance), I wanted to add it just in case...

I've had both the HCl and Br salt forms of 3-MeO-PCP. The HCl form was very similar in colour and consistency to the slightly yellow/tan MXE that came from one of the 'big five' in 2010/2011. The bromide salt of 3-MeO-PCP matched the appearance and consistency of the 'fluffier' white MXE. I'm more concerned with its consistency than its colour, I accept that colour could be many, many things, but regardless...

Is there any correlation to be found here, or is it a case of 'correlation =/= causation'? As far as I understand, the bromide salt of 3-MeO is somewhat less potent due to the lower weight per molecule of the drug. Can the same be said for all bromide bonds? Even if the appearance is not an indicator for each salt, could the perceived differing potency be related to the salt form?
 
The difference in mass between the HCl and the HBr salt is going to be minimal at best. The HBr is slightly less potent because a molecule of HBr weighs more than a molecule of HCl.

MXE - M.w. 247.33
MXE HCl - 283.83 (HCl salt - 87% as strong as FB)
MXE HBr - 328.33 (HBr salt - 75% as strong as FB)

Other than being slightly less potent by weight there should be no major differences between salt forms.
 
Hammilton said:
One word of caution- there's a chance this compound could be an MAOI. It's not that different from tranylcypromine, but it's not that close either. Close enough that I'd be concerned and take necessary precautions for initial testing!
Click to expand...

Just another subjective bioassay opinion, but I've come to the conclusion that (if no unknown mechanisms are involved) some batches of Methoxetamine could well have a light, but "irreversible" and thus cumulative MAOI action that builds up slowly when taking chronic low, sub-threshold dosages (or lasts some days after one huge dosage). Can't find an other explaination for these outstanding reactions when combining this with low (<=5 mg/d) of amphetamine. Hypomanical flight that lasts for days and weeks with next to no subjective exhaustion or comedown... (while the MXE is continued). Confirmed by people who didn't know about my drug use, this was way more than subjective amphetamine "smartness" manic... It's about two years since then, and I still miss the social and mental energy I've experienced...

Other samples of what was called to be the same substance had not entirely, but quite different effects and lacked this specific one. I'd agree to that there is at least a range between sedative, psychedelic-dissociative MXE and speedy, cold MXE batches where with the latter it was impossible to achieve something like a "hole", leaving one in a strange, overstimulated mindfuck for hours. Not totally sure, but would make sense that this was the MAOI one.

Memantine, being a (relatively) clean NMDAI, is even at 40mg+/d in no way comparable to that MXE (5-10mg/d), both tried in different combinations. On the other side, it helps quitting the MXE without rebound.

Now I would love to give Tranylcypromine a try (being also a dopamine releaser itself)... it's not marketed here and haven't seen a supply yet. Off-topic, but still.. anyone having experiences? Would be interesting to compare.

At last, yes... I think I've had some blood pressure elevation here and there, but nothing serious and even while sleeping was not that difficult, Clonidine solved both with ease.

The other thing- I can't assure that I don't suffer of long-time after effects (light cognitive impairment, NMDA/dopaminergic disregulation, whatever)- having taken so many psychoactives -many of them scripted by stupid doctors giving neuroleptics for sleep and all that- I can't say what I would be now without that history. Subjectively I feel Methoxetamine wasn't that bad, compared to SSRI and neuroleptic compounds...
 
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dopamimetic said:
Just another subjective bioassay opinion, but I've come to the conclusion that (if no unknown mechanisms are involved) some batches of Methoxetamine could well have a light, but "irreversible" and thus cumulative MAOI action that builds up slowly when taking chronic low, sub-threshold dosages (or lasts some days after one huge dosage). Can't find an other explaination for these outstanding reactions when combining this with low (<=5 mg/d) of amphetamine. Hypomanical flight that lasts for days and weeks with next to no subjective exhaustion or comedown... (while the MXE is continued). Confirmed by people who didn't know about my drug use, this was way more than subjective amphetamine "smartness" manic... It's about two years since then, and I still miss the social and mental energy I've experienced...

Other samples of what was called to be the same substance had not entirely, but quite different effects and lacked this specific one. I'd agree to that there is at least a range between sedative, psychedelic-dissociative MXE and speedy, cold MXE batches where with the latter it was impossible to achieve something like a "hole", leaving one in a strange, overstimulated mindfuck for hours. Not totally sure, but would make sense that this was the MAOI one.

Memantine, being a (relatively) clean NMDAI, is even at 40mg+/d in no way comparable to that MXE (5-10mg/d), both tried in different combinations. On the other side, it helps quitting the MXE without rebound.

Now I would love to give Tranylcypromine a try (being also a dopamine releaser itself)... it's not marketed here and haven't seen a supply yet. Off-topic, but still.. anyone having experiences? Would be interesting to compare.

At last, yes... I think I've had some blood pressure elevation here and there, but nothing serious and even while sleeping was not that difficult, Clonidine solved both with ease.

The other thing- I can't assure that I don't suffer of long-time after effects (light cognitive impairment, NMDA/dopaminergic disregulation, whatever)- having taken so many psychoactives -many of them scripted by stupid doctors giving neuroleptics for sleep and all that- I can't say what I would be now without that history. Subjectively I feel Methoxetamine wasn't that bad, compared to SSRI and neuroleptic compounds...
Click to expand...
Knowing that a lot of MXE is cut with stuff like n-ethyl norketamine and junk even sometimes stimulants means you can't really draw any conclusions without testing the batches of MXE...
 
I doubt MXE has significant MAOI-(a) properties.

I say based on bioassay, I went through a period of shooting several grams a day, every day for quite a few months. And used stimulants several times during. Had I done so and it been a significant MAOI, the shit would doubtless have hit the fan, in a hypertensive crisis. It didn't, nor did it show any signs of doing so.

Oh and just an observation-the salt form of a drug CAN affect absorption kinetics. IIRC the reason propoxyphene was marketed as the napsylate salt, was to make it slowly absorbed enough that abuse would be pointless.
 
Limpet_Chicken said:
I doubt MXE has significant MAOI-(a) properties.

I say based on bioassay, I went through a period of shooting several grams a day, every day for quite a few months. And used stimulants several times during. Had I done so and it been a significant MAOI, the shit would doubtless have hit the fan, in a hypertensive crisis. It didn't, nor did it show any signs of doing so.

Oh and just an observation-the salt form of a drug CAN affect absorption kinetics. IIRC the reason propoxyphene was marketed as the napsylate salt, was to make it slowly absorbed enough that abuse would be pointless.
Click to expand...
and this is why stuff like brown MDPV got so big. They think it's a different chem when it's just a different absorption.
 
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