Staff Feedback Poorly handled situation

D

DooMMooD

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
819
Firstly, I will link the threads that are relevant:

Thread I received actual warning for: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/660615-(Diphenhydramine-3500-mgs)-A-trip-to-the-hospital?p=11218766#post11218766

The other related thread: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/652055-Inhalants-fucked-me-up-Coming-off-Years-of-abuse/page5

Now, I received an infraction for this, for "Posting a PM" according to the mod. My first problem with this is: no where in the BLUA does it say this is a punishable offense. No where. So the fact that I received a warning for it is pretty absurd. I did nothing wrong here. I posted nothing fictitious, nothing slanderous, no "hearsay", nada. Everything I wrote was true, correct, and in no way shape or form a punishable offense according to the BLUA.

Secondly, I RECEIVED A DEATH THREAT. A DEATH THREAT from a member (who i am willing to bet has since created a new account, but thats on you guys). Now, the death threat is the PM i posted, because I felt that other members should know about this scumbag troll. Someone trolling The Dark Side, of all places. That is messed up, and what he did was messed up, but thats not even the thing I have taken issue with here.

I was told that this was "hearsay" until I reported it. This statement by the way, is itself questionable since some higher ups here have the ability to read PMs. As a former mod of another drug site, I know while not every mod possess this ability, it is possible for the top of the pyramid to do such things. But fine, ok whatever. Let us assume they cannot sift through my PMs without a report. I did report it.

So my questions here:
1) What legal action is being taken against a man who threatened my life?
2) Why did I unjustly receive an infraction for something that is NOT against the BLUA?

I just think this entire situation has been handled like shit, and has honestly left a bad taste in my mouth. As someone who contributes positively, and only has had one other infraction in my entire time here at BLUA, I'm pretty pissed at how this all went down. I exert a lot of effort in TDS to help people, as well as 'play within the rules', and to be punished for a nonexistent rule is pretty ridiculous to me. Its even more ridiculous than the absurd death threat, or the failure of mods to weed out trolls in TDS.

Also if the BLUA suddenly changes (ex post facto), or this thread gets locked or deleted I will be even more pissed.

I would love to see some consistency when it comes to correctly enforcing the BLUA.


In summary: I call out troll; I get death threat from troll; I show the community the evidence of his trolling so they are aware; I GET PUNISHED FOR DOING THAT despite it not being a punishable offense; trolls still have yet to be weeded out in TDS; I have yet to see any action being taken for the 'threat' on my life
 
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The guy was making vitriolic death threats so I don't understand the problem with posting his abusive PMs. It's not invading his privacy because he's not spilling his guts out about highly personal problems - he literally just copied and pasted a PM with threats to kill and abuse.

I can't see any rule against it so how was he to know?

Surely it helps for people to know about his threats? It's one thing to post abuse but to threaten to kill someone? That takes things to a whole new level and I think we should be more concerned about DooMood than the feelings of the troll. DooMood was exposing him, not embarassing him.
 
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A mod just said that it was because I violated privacy. I take HUGE ISSUE with that.

Its not an invasion of privacy. HE SENT IT TO ME. All expectations of privacy are null and void when HE SENDS ME SOMETHING. It is MY MESSAGE, that he sent to ME.

Thats like saying if you get something in the mail, you cannot show it to anyone. Its MY MAIL, and I am free to do with it what I please. Sure, if I posted a PM that was not sent to ME I could see that being a legitimate argument. But thats not what happened here.

He sent something to me. That is mine to do with what I please. No expectation of privacy can be had in such a scenario.

And lets just put that common sense argument aside for now. Here is a line taken VERBATIM from the Blue Light User Agreement:

Any communication that you transmit to Bluelight should be considered non-confidential, and you agree that Bluelight will not be liable or responsible if information that belongs to you is intercepted or used by an unintended recipient.
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I mean seriously, have the mods themselves read the BLUA? It seems like they have not.
 
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ok, let's take a breath and dial down the outrage just a little. give us a short time to consider what happened here and we'll get back to you.

in the meantime, the sun will still move across the sky and gravity will continue to do its thing.

:)

alasdair
 
Of course I'm going to be a bit ticked after this entire incident. But I would not call this outrage. I feel I'm handling it exactly how I should.

BL often takes pride in holding itself to a higher standard. Yet this entire incident has been handled just as poorly as any other "drug forum" on the web.


I want the mods to read the BLUA they use as a blanket reason for whatever they feel like doing.

I want to be punished when I deserve to be punished, and not when I do not. Just as I want others to be punished when they deserve to be, and not be punished when they don't.

I want someone to admit that they were wrong, and apologize. Its OK to be wrong. Last time I got an infraction, did i make a thread to moan and complain? No of course not, because I deserved it, and I FREELY admitted what I did was incorrect.

Most of all, I want CONSISTENCY. I want everyone to be held to a standard. Not just the members, but everyone.

I'm not expecting even a quarter of these things to be fulfilled, but they are pretty much the goal.
 
I am again being told I broke the rules. Specifically rule 3 regarding privacy.


"There is NOTHING IN THE BLUA saying private messages cannot be posted somewhere. And there is NO expectation of privacy to be had when someone sends ME SOMETHING.

Once again, I am being told this violates the rules rules.

There is no expectation of privacy to be had when someone sends ME a message. If I was posting PMs between OTHER MEMBERS, that'd be another story and I'd gladly sit down and take it. But he sent the message to ME. It is afterwards mine to do with what I please.

Again to restate this: It was a message sent to me. Further, it was a DEATH THREAT. There is no privacy to be expected in such a scenario no matter how you cut it.

I have in no way, shape, or form, violated the BLUA, and I really dont get why anyone on this site cannot just come out and say "You know what, youre right, and I'm sorry".

This is where my "outrage" stems from: being punished for a rule I did not break.

Rule 3 keeps being quoted at me, yet this was not copyrighted, nor in any way shape or form expected to be "private" once it landed in my inbox. It was a message I received, and again I am free to do with it as I please.

A simple admission of fucking up is all I seek. A nice "Hey, you know what, you DIDNT violate the BLUA, and I'm sorry I said you did."

Apparently thats a lot to ask for.


This is a principle thing at this point. As I said I really could not give 2 shits about a 0 point infraction. To reiterate: I care that I was GIVEN A WARNING FOR NOT BREAKING ANY RULES."
 
DooMMooD said:
Now, I received an infraction for this, for "Posting a PM" according to the mod. My first problem with this is: no where in the BLUA does it say this is a punishable offense. No where. So the fact that I received a warning for it is pretty absurd. I did nothing wrong here. I posted nothing fictitious, nothing slanderous, no "hearsay", nada. Everything I wrote was true, correct, and in no way shape or form a punishable offense according to the BLUA.
Click to expand...

you also need to take into account that forums have individual rules to keep the forum running smoothly.

TR guidelines said:
The Bluelight User Agreement applies to all threads and posts inside Trip Reports. When replying to a thread, try not to post anything that detracts from the trip report or personally attacks the poster. Questions, praise or constructive criticism are encouraged. Forum moderators are responsible for keeping the forum organized and will lock or edit posts as necessary.
Click to expand...

DooMMooD said:
Secondly, I RECEIVED A DEATH THREAT. A DEATH THREAT from a member (who i am willing to bet has since created a new account, but thats on you guys). Now, the death threat is the PM i posted, because I felt that other members should know about this scumbag troll. Someone trolling The Dark Side, of all places. That is messed up, and what he did was messed up, but thats not even the thing I have taken issue with here.

I was told that this was "hearsay" until I reported it. This statement by the way, is itself questionable since some higher ups here have the ability to read PMs. As a former mod of another drug site, I know while not every mod possess this ability, it is possible for the top of the pyramid to do such things. But fine, ok whatever. Let us assume they cannot sift through my PMs without a report. I did report it.
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different forums on different software and have different settings. BL does not allow any staff members to see the contents of PM unless reported by a user. the PMs in question have been dealt with.

DooMMooD said:
So my questions here:
1) What legal action is being taken against a man who threatened my life?
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contact law enforcement in your area if you feel your life is in danger. contact a lawyer if you want to pursue civil action action the individual.

DooMMooD said:
2) Why did I unjustly receive an infraction for something that is NOT against the BLUA?
Click to expand...

as i said above, individual forums have their own rules. if you break those rules, you can also get a warning/infraction/

DooMMooD said:
I just think this entire situation has been handled like shit, and has honestly left a bad taste in my mouth. As someone who contributes positively, and only has had one other infraction in my entire time here at BLUA, I'm pretty pissed at how this all went down. I exert a lot of effort in TDS to help people, as well as 'play within the rules', and to be punished for a nonexistent rule is pretty ridiculous to me. Its even more ridiculous than the absurd death threat, or the failure of mods to weed out trolls in TDS.

Also if the BLUA suddenly changes (ex post facto), or this thread gets locked or deleted I will be even more pissed.

I would love to see some consistency when it comes to correctly enforcing the BLUA.


In summary: I call out troll; I get death threat from troll; I show the community the evidence of his trolling so they are aware; I GET PUNISHED FOR DOING THAT despite it not being a punishable offense; trolls still have yet to be weeded out in TDS; I have yet to see any action being taken for the 'threat' on my life
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in closing, i will remind you of TDS guidelines too

TDS guidelines said:
Many TDS threads require more tactfulness than ordinary posting situations. Posts that are intended to shame, humiliate, or provoke are not acceptable here. If a member is a continuous irritant to another member, but is not attacking anyone nor breaking any rules, then the best remedy is to put the member you have problems with on your ignore list via UserCP. If someone is creating a hostile environment, breaking BLUA or forum guidelines, then it is far better to use the report function () than to respond to them in the thread. The report function calls the situation to the attention of the entire TDS staff.

It's often tempting to reply to such posts, but more often than not pointless, particularly when the user in question is a recognized "troll." So please report, and leave us with as little mess to clean up as possible.
Click to expand...
 
That is NOT WHERE I RECEIVED THE WARNING as I have been told REPEATEDLY.

So, to quote rules for TDS is silly. I received the warning in another section entirely.

There was no "personal attack". It was all factual. If I were posting false stuff, I'd agree. But he sent me these things, and then I GET WARNED?!


Also for the record, the CONTACT US in the BLUA wiki does not work. I would like to be able to send this complaint to the higher ups.

This is RIDICULOUS that someone cannot admit they were wrong. And it is RIDICULOUS that despite everyone telling me to "contact the right people" it is IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SO SINCE THE LINKS ARE BROKEN.

The fact that not ONE PERSON has owned up for wrongly punishing me is absurd. I have been repeatedly told I'm violating rule 3 of the BLUA.

Not once in nearly 4 years have I had a problem. That should tell you something.

I'm clearly also not the only one who feels this way, as evidenced by two other people posting in here.

This entire incident is, in a word: bullshit.
 
please reread my entire post. i will re-quote the bit of the trip reports guidelines i posted above:

TR guidelines said:
The Bluelight User Agreement applies to all threads and posts inside Trip Reports. When replying to a thread, try not to post anything that detracts from the trip report or personally attacks the poster. Questions, praise or constructive criticism are encouraged. Forum moderators are responsible for keeping the forum organized and will lock or edit posts as necessary.
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i bolded the section you violated. posting PM exchanges has nothing to do with the trip report in question. you said yourself that you were posting them to attack the OP:

DooMMooD said:
Just had to share this with the other sections of BL since he goes from sub forum to sub forum so no one catches on!
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lastly, i would like to remind you of this section of the greenlighter's guide: how to deal with annoying people

Help! Someone is doing something that really aggravates me! Can you make them stop?

Are they breaking the Bluelight User Agreement or certain forum guidelines? If so, use the "Report" button and bring it to the attention of the moderators. If they are not breaking any rules, it is just a personal issue and you should consider putting them on "ignore". That way you won't have to deal with them again.

How do I put someone on ignore?

Find a post they made or a message they sent you and click on their name.
Click on View Public Profile
Click on 'Add [name] to your ignore list'
Now you will not see their posts or be able to receive PMs from them. Basically you can forget that the aggravating person even exists.
So next time you are irritated by a person's posts, their avatar, their signature tag or even their username: Simply put them on ignore. It does wonders at preventing aggravation.
 
That was NOT what I was punished for. I have been told REPEATEDLY I was punished for violating privacy rules, specifically rule #3 of the BLUA. Now I am being told it is for something else?

I've said what can be done: admit I was wrongly warned. i'll gladly take the warning for the other thing. You guys are CLEARLY backpedaling because it is obvious I in no way, shape, or form, violated the rules I was accused of violating.

Further:

The contact list and the contact administrator form, both of which are found in the Blue Light User Agreement are both broken. Since I have been told many times to utilize this, the fact that I cannot makes being told to do so inane.

I received a DEATH THREAT from a TROLL who wasted valuable insight and time people contribute in TDS for 5 pages. And this is how it ends?

To call me melodramatic, for doing EXACTLY WHAT THE MODS HAVE TOLD ME TO DO, is retarded.

To say this entire thing is ridiculous would be a gross understatement. And I dont mean its ridiculous because I seek an adequate resolution.

Again, BL holds itself to a higher standard, and you guys are failing to meet that standard here in my opinion.
 
this what you received the warning for:

Please refrain from posting PMs on the board. If necessary, report questionable private messages and they will be taken care of by staff if needed.

Thank You
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i am very sorry you don't like the fact that we only have a set number of warnings/infractions to chose from. you are welcome to leave bluelight and find a message board with a warning system more to your liking at any time.
 
Exactly. I received a warning for a NON EXISTENT RULE. There is no rule saying I cannot post private messages that I RECEIVE on these boards. There is no expectation of privacy, and in fact the BLUA itself states that for another reason entirely.

You guys are NOT holding yourselves accountable to the BLUA, a thing that is REPEATEDLY used as a blanket reason for doing whatever around here.


Again as the links are broken, I would like to be given the proper contact information, since I have been told that is the way to resolve this issue. I dont feel I should have to leave before I exhaust all legitimate means of resolving the issue.

Once again alls I was after was an apology; an admission of incorrect punishment and someone owning up to their own mistake! "Hey you know what, you're right! I punished you for a rule that doesn't exist. I'm sorry. However, you did do something else wrong here...." and this entire thing would have ended awhile ago.

If I do choose to leave, which I undoubtedly will if I do not feel an adequate resolution is had (which again, I'm waiting on YOU GUYS to fix the links that I have been told to utilize) you guys lost a real positive influence in TDS. I'm sure herb would agree.
 
DooMMood as I have told you and as animal_cookie has told you repeatedly, posting private messages in a thread and derailing the thread instead of simply reporting the messages from the start is not how you should handle this sort of situation. We can't see your PMs unless you report them, that's why the report function exists. You weren't given any infraction points, just a simple warning along with several explanations.

In the future, please report your PMs instead of posting them in a thread where they do not belong. Otherwise, there's really nothing we can do about them.
 
I'm sorry to hear that someone threatened your life man.

You can use the report button in a private message (
report.gif
) instead of posting it in a thread, but I am not going to say you were in the wrong to post it in a thread. That would be for the moderators/staff to decide.
 
I do not condone my private messages to be posted in other forms no matter what nature they are of. I apologize for those threats I was just very agitated that you "exposed" my thread for something it wasn't. That thread was legit and you called bullshit on it. I reacted.

once again I DO NOT CONDONE YOU TO POST SCREEN SHOTS OF MY PERSONAL PRIVATE MESSAGES.

Good Day.
 
gracious what a fuss. let's discuss the core issues here:

1. you were physically threatened in a private message. threats of violence have never been acceptable on bluelight and the person who made the threat has been dealt with per the bluelight discipline system. the fact that you don't see this happen doesn't mean nothing happened.

2. you posted the contents of a private message publicly. there's both policy and precedent here which makes the posting of the content of private messages on bluelight unacceptable and subject to disciplinary action. the policy is blua bullet #3: "Specifically, you may not...post or upload any content that is copyrighted by another, or invasive of another's privacy".

you were invited to report the messages in question and you chose to post them publicly. you have to take responsibility for the choice you made and the action you took. i would have infracted you but you received a zero-point warning. we'll leave that as is, as a sign of goodwill.

you are free to disagree but there's a reasonable expectation of privacy when sending a private message. that's why the system is called the private message system and not just the message system. if i wish to engage you publicly, i do so in the public forums to which everybody has access. if i wish to engage you privately, i send a private message. there is, and always has been on bluelight, an implicit request that the contents of a private message are not made public. in publicising a private message, you posted content which was invasive of another's privacy. people have been warned and infracted for this in the past so the response was consistent with site policy and precedent.

your pointing to this excerpt from the blua: "Any communication that you transmit to Bluelight should be considered non-confidential, and you agree that Bluelight will not be liable or responsible if information that belongs to you is intercepted or used by an unintended recipient. " is a distraction and i fear you simply misunderstand its intent.

that section does not mean that we will share publicly, private messages sent to us. rather, it alerts the community to the fact that, due to the nature of the medium on which we operate (i.e. the public internet) 'private' correspondence can potentially be intercepted, and thus seen, by unintended recipients.

finally, the contact list does appear to be broken. we'll attend to that. thanks for the report.

the contact administrator form is working correctly. animal_cookie has provided you with links to the threads outlining which senior staff oversee which forums should you wish to contact any of us by pm.

looking forward, i would reiterate that you use the report function to bring further problem posts and pms to our attention and you consider putting any individual with whom you have a disagreement on ignore.

your suggestion that we can't admit we're wrong is laughable nonsense. i can, if you like, provide examples of apologies for error from senior staff myself included, overturned warnings and infractions, overturned temporary bans and even examples of staff who have been relieved of their duties due to inappropriate conduct. i'm satisfied that the action take here was entirely appropriate.

i hope you'll stay and continue to participate but you are, of course, free to leave bluelight at any time. there's information on doing that here: leaving bluelight.

regards

alasdair
 
DooMMooD said:
This statement by the way, is itself questionable since some higher ups here have the ability to read PMs. As a former mod of another drug site, I know while not every mod possess this ability, it is possible for the top of the pyramid to do such things. But fine, ok whatever. Let us assume they cannot sift through my PMs without a report. I did report it.
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i missed this point in your complaint but i would like to address it.

nobody in the 'regular' staff hierarchy at bluelight - i.e. moderators, senior moderators and administrators - has access to the content of private messages. that requires access to the raw database data and only one person has that - our engineer. you don't need to assume that we (mods, smods, admins) can't sift through your pms without a report - the reason we ask you to report it is because we do not have access otherwise.

regards

alasdair
 
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