Poker

[aanallein]

yo aan, you should play in our game. do you poke online?

Not something I'd really like to pursue at the moment. I like to gamble with friends in person for the social aspect, I don't really gamble much beyond that. Thanks though. =)

To be perfectly honest I can't quite make broad statements on my play style. I try to keep it all over the place, any kind of pattern throws off my random style and I love keeping the entire table off guard. My buddy who's house we play at absolutely HATES playing against me because there is virtually no way to read me. I'm just completely all over and have no fear while playing. This style owns when people play ultra-conservative which all my opponents generally do.

 

[Infinite Jest]

Oh, I got a great one I saw on a poker forum:

Someone starts a thread about how he's got in over his head, he's lost his rent money, his girlfriend's furious, and he's started cutting himself again.

One of the responses discusses bankroll management etc, then finishes with "and stop cutting yourself. I'm sure you can see that that's a - EV move".

When you start seeing e'thing in poker metaphors, you are maybe playing too much poker ;-)

 

[alasdairm]

1. Position, position, position...

huge part of th egame. i think the first big step up i took from beginner to whatever was when i understood - and played well - position.

2. Low pocket pairs: limp into unopened pots, and fold unless you hit the set; OR jam all-in later in the tournament when the blinds are getting high, and hope that either everyone folds, or I get heads-up against someone with overcards and it's 50/50.

yep. agreed. when i have 22 and the flop hits A82, i feel like god (or what i expect he would feel like if he existed )

6. Make your opponent make the decision - bet, don't check or limp.

i wouldn't agree with this as a concrete rule. my move is always a function of a number of factors. there are plenty situations where a check is the best bet. that said, i'll play the occasional sit'n'go where i won't allow myself to ever bet/check/call. raise or fold. it's fun sometimes but it's just an occasional distraction.

7. If someone is acting as though they have you beat, they probably do - it's easier to fold and get the money back when you're more confident that you're ahead.

i wouldn't agree with this either. as you play better and better players, strength as often indicates weakness and vice versa. it depends.

alasdair

 

[Infinite Jest]

i wouldn't agree with this either. as you play better and better players, strength as often indicates weakness and vice versa. it depends.

alasdair

Fair point. I should have specified 'at low levels'. It's not always true then, either. But the big bet into a board when the third suited card comes? More often than not, it means he has hit his flush.

Maybe it's a flaw in my game, but at the moment I hate sucking out in situations like that, and I'd rather fold. I need to get better at reading people, and putting them on a hand. But one thing at a time, you know?

 

[alasdairm]

related reading (click it):



alasdair

 

[Infinite Jest]

Thanks - I've heard many good things about that one. Haven't read it yet. I read his other book, thought it wasn't very good (but it was more aimed at limit and cash games, not NL tourneys).

Harringdon on Hold 'Em is the one I've found most useful.

 

[alasdairm]

i read it recently and learned a few things. that said, without closer analysis, some of his tells seemed to simply contradict others and i felt like i was back where i started

alasdair

 

[Raving Loony]

How do you better poker deal with tables when dickheads start to join, continually trash talk and other players at the table start getting getting shitty and the betting patterns become grossly unpredictable? I like to think that I can read an opponents strength or weaknesses quite well, but I am clueless when they become hostile.

I found I was in a situation when I was playing well and making good reads of my opponents hand strength. But my judgement completely went off course when in these situations. I found myself folding before the flop stong hands because there was all sorts of crazy stuff going on like weird all-ins whilst a person is boiling underneath and pre-flop bets at 8-10 times the big blind. As a result of all this I ended being blinded out because I had missed those stronger opportunities, but at the time I felt like it was more appropriate to let the dickheads slug it out.

 

[aanallein]

Honestly I'd avoid playing in any situation like that. Makes life simpler.

 

[alasdairm]

How do you better poker deal with tables when dickheads start to join, continually trash talk and other players at the table start getting getting shitty and the betting patterns become grossly unpredictable? I like to think that I can read an opponents strength or weaknesses quite well, but I am clueless when they become hostile.

if you can't just tune it out, switch off chat to totally ignore the trash talk. for me, any information at all is useful. you may find that trash talkers give away information on their hands without realising it. as in live play, watch for tells and patterns - it's very hard but you may notice something.

also, in terms of play, i would tighten up a bit but play more aggressively. if i sense weakness, i might pull off a big bluff then show it to show them i'm not intimidated and to try to shut them up. the only thing that silences a trash talker is taking his/her chips.

alasdair

 

[Rusty Cage]

related reading (click it):



alasdair

Personally I would recommend any book by sklansky he REALLY delves into numbers, and position, and the math part of the game... he doesn't talk a lot about peoples tells, or things like that, instead it's just the mathematical aspect of the game.

 

[Raving Loony]

if you can't just tune it out, switch off chat to totally ignore the trash talk. for me, any information at all is useful. you may find that trash talkers give away information on their hands without realising it. as in live play, watch for tells and patterns - it's very hard but you may notice something.

also, in terms of play, i would tighten up a bit but play more aggressively. if i sense weakness, i might pull off a big bluff then show it to show them i'm not intimidated and to try to shut them up. the only thing that silences a trash talker is taking his/her chips.

alasdair

I can generally read the state of a drunken persons position quite well, but what I struggle with is how to re-read the 2 or 3 people who have turned into psychos because they want that drunken trash talker off the table at all costs. I found a few people were ganging up on the drunken trash talker and throwing large amounts of lots of chips to push the drunk out. Plus I never like getting into four or five way action to the river during periods of over betting (even on reasonable hands). Is that a bad thing?

 

[alasdairm]

^ it's so tough. generally, if a lot of people are getting into pots i get more aggressive. that said, online it seems crazy - the blinds will be 20/40 and i'll raise 300 in late position with good cards and still get 6 calls. i'm not sure what the answer to that is other than to seek out higher stakes games where people play a little more 'traditionally'.

Personally I would recommend any book by sklansky he REALLY delves into numbers, and position, and the math part of the game... he doesn't talk a lot about peoples tells, or things like that, instead it's just the mathematical aspect of the game.

i'm sure there are many better books on poker in general but i was responding directly to this:

I need to get better at reading people, and putting them on a hand.

alasdair

 

[thizzSantaCruz]

I have been gone for a while on a small vacation. Nice to see that the poker thread is going strong.

I have not gotten enough takers for the private tourney and am still waiting on takers. Anyone interested shoot me a PM, at the very least I want 7 people I think I have 3 that are interested. Buy in will be 5 dollars.l

Anyone here play cash games? Seems like most discussions are about tournaments and sit-n-gos.

My pokerisms might be a little different because I do not play tourneys but here are the rules I try to live by.

1. Make your hands count, DO NOT SLOWPLAY (unless opponent is hyper-aggressive).

2. Try to avoid going broke with TPTK as much as possiblee.

3. Make sets, get paid.

4. Punish the donks and loose/passive calling stations by only playing quality hands and playing for stacks. ( I used to try to play more hands than normal against these opponents but realized the variance was too much for me. Now I fold a lot of hands to these players but when I do take a hand I am making a lot of cash).

5. Always work at analyzing and improving your game.

 

[Rusty Cage]

i'm sure there are many better books on poker in general but i was responding directly to this:


alasdair

I understood that, I was just simply throwing out some good related reading, especially your way since you like numbers mr. 2-3.

 

[fozzy nutz]

Fair point. I should have specified 'at low levels'. It's not always true then, either. But the big bet into a board when the third suited card comes? More often than not, it means he has hit his flush.

QUOTE]

at low levels its were it's espically true that showing strength is a tell they just don't know its yet. another good one is if they have postition and don't want you to bet they'll start stacking their chips as a false sign of strength.

a big bet when 3 suited cards hit the board usually means they don't have a flush.... they have an ace or king and its a semi bluff. lets say your playing a low suited 4/5 let say and you hit you flush on the flop first thing you need to do is figure out where you stand in the hand. if you make a big bet the only way your getting called is if your already beat or your playing against a donkey. a flush verus an ace high flush draw is at worst a 70/ 30 favorite. against trips it's still 65/35

 

[thizzSantaCruz]

I don't know about that a suited flop coupled with a big bet means that they are protecting a pair. If I flop a flush I am going to bet big to represent protecting a high pair otherwise I am not getitng paid off very well. If you bet small as if you are hunting people are not going to pay you off when you bomb the turn or the river. The best bet you have is to bet around the pot and hope villain thinks you are protecting a high pair and they have you outkicked.

*edit* To tell you the truth one of the most outstanding mistakes at low stakes poker is that players seemed to be too scared of the flush. Too many times do I see players quickly bailing when that third suited card hits. When I see players doing this a lot it goes down into the notes and I am bombing the board when the board is 2 to the flush.

 

[Infinite Jest]

at low levels its were it's espically true that showing strength is a tell they just don't know its yet. another good one is if they have postition and don't want you to bet they'll start stacking their chips as a false sign of strength.

Heh, I just played with someone who went all-in preflop with KK second hand of a tourney. Half the table had already folded, and the others followed. He won 30 chips for a 9000 chip bet. (He'd taken two others out in the first hand when they went all-in with nothing).

So I hear what you're saying, but I think it varies:

real donkeys: get all excited that they have a big hand, and slam in all their chips.
smarter players: act strong when they're weak, and vice versa.
smarter still: copy thizzSantaCruz and act strong when they're strong, hoping people will think they're like the second group, and are bluffing....

no doubt there are more layers of subtlety that I haven't noticed yet....

 

[aanallein]

^ you just gotta learn your opponent. If I get a super hand straight off the bat I gotta also know what they have, or atleast have a good idea. If I can slow play them to a bigger pot in the end, I'll take that route. If I can go all in earlier and force them in because I know they'll pursue, then I'll take that route. Depends on who you're playing against, the hand you have and the possible hand they have. It just depends imho.

 

[fozzy nutz]

i try to play the exact opposite as the table. if there are a lot of aggressive people tons of people in each pot i play tight as hell only play big wait because some will double you up.

one good bet i've learned is the bet, check, bet theory. you hit your set on the flop lay out a decent size bet...if you string someone in check on the turn... push hard on the river. it's very hard to put someone on a hand when they do this.