Opioids plugging mscontin (morphine sulfate) what is the bioavailability?

[regal]

All opiates are derived from Opium. I had a big discussion with my Doc about it recently. It doesn't matter whether you take Codeine, Morphine or Heroin they all work in the same way. It is all converted to Morphine inside the body. The reason I had this chat was that I wasn't keen on going back onto Morphine instead of Codeine for pain relief, as my Doc explained I was effectively already on Morphine. Your body will make no distinction in terms of withdrawal or dependence between any opiate. However if you're not taking them for pain and are taking them instead to get high then different Opiates and doses will have different effects.

Yes opiates are derived from the opium poppy, its he reason I believe that Doctors are(AMA) are against them, cuts into the mobs heroin distribution. The are a few exceptions, fentyl, methadone, demeral (which don't start from the poppy), none which are a good choice for long term chronic paint treatment IMHO. And they kind of suck. Opium has been used successfully for chronic pain and the resultant depression for thousands of years.

As fas as extracting time release morphine pills, I haven't tried but as a former chemist the best method would seem to me to do an "opposite acid base". Grind the time release dissolve in distilled vinegar. Add 75% vol toluene which dissolves the wax/gel, the morphine stays in the vinegar. Decant he Toluene leaving behind the vinegar full of morphine, allow residual toluene to evap. Neutralize to Morphine acetate with baking soda. If going to inject: filter with cotton then syringe filter, then sterilize, should be just about as good as the liquid bottles at the hospital. The hardest part is sterilizing everything. I personally think this would be suitable for the chronic pain patient who wants to IM and avoid the "rush" that leads to addiction. *The above is just pure conjecture and really hope to reduce those trying heating/filtering the gel with is wasting the drug and very dangerous IMHO.*.


As far as RA, remember the test for BA via rectal were run on people with varying degrees of empty bowels, people lie when filling out forms, just like saying you fasted before your yearly blood test. The thing I like about RA is when timed right one can eat a big hearty healthy on an empty colon and still dose via RA for pain relief. On a full colon one can eat the small pill friendly fat/fiber/snacks and oral dose. Get the timing down and one can maintain their weight without the opiate malnutrition side effects. I think using a post enema if needed and doing it right the 60% number from the study is closure to reality.

I'm just not big on recreational opiate use, as a chronic pain patient it is understandable that the abusers have ruined things for a lot of use who truly need relief and and morphine is my DOC for pain.

 

[OrbitalCombustion]

hello all,
i read in the bioavailability thread that morphine oral has around a ~30% BA and rectal is around the same. in my experience with liquid morphine i can say that rectally taking liquid morphine is at least twice as strong as oral. i just started getting mscontin pills and plugging them is not as good as plugging liquid morphine for whatever reason but it is still much better than taking them orally. does anyone know the true BA for rectal morphine? i'd have to guess its around 50-60% if not higher. you get a rush and a much stronger high than snorting or taking morphine orally. anyone have similar experiences?

BA:

oral ~30%
rectal ~60%
insuffilated ~25%
IV/IM ~100%

that is the BA chart i'd guess is the most accurate. i dont think plugging is only 5% higher BA than oral.

I crushed them up and soaked it up with a turkey baster and shot it into my ass while lying on my side or on my stomach to let it absorb. $proper method$ Great results, very potent.

 

[KS78]

There's this organic substance called "chitosan" which increases the bioavailability of intranasal morphine from %10 to %60 and sometimes higher when used intranasally together.
Here's a study about this combination:
"Abstract
Morphine administered nasally to humans as a simple solution is only absorbed to a limited degree, with a bioavailability of the order of 10% compared with intravenous administration. This article describes the development of novel nasal morphine formulations based on chitosan, which, in the sheep model, provide a highly increased absorption with a 5- to 6-fold increase in bioavailability over simple morphine solutions. The chitosan-morphine nasal formulations have been tested in healthy volunteers in comparison with a slow i.v. infusion (over 30 min) of morphine. The results show that the nasal formulation was rapidly absorbed with a Tmax of 15 min or less and a bioavailability of nearly 60%. The shape of the plasma profile for nasal delivery of the chitosan-morphine formulation was similar to the one obtained for the slow i.v. administration of morphine. Furthermore, the metabolite profile obtained after the nasal administration of the chitosan-morphine nasal formulation was essentially identical to the one obtained for morphine administered by the intravenous route. The levels of both morphine-6-glucuronide and morphine-3-glucuronide were only about 25% of that found after oral administration of morphine. It is concluded that a properly designed nasal morphine formulation (such as one with chitosan) can result in a noninjectable opioid product capable of offering patients rapid and efficient pain relief."
Source: http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/301/1/391

I don't have any scientific research to back this up but chitosan can possibly increase the bioavailability of intrarectal morphine as well. I think that it's worth trying.

Here's some information on chitosan if interested.

CHITOSAN: Overview, Uses, Side Effects, Precautions, Interactions, Dosing and Reviews

Learn more about CHITOSAN uses, effectiveness, possible side effects, interactions, dosage, user ratings and products that contain CHITOSAN.

www.webmd.com

 

[Oxyfaded]

I use ms contin (100 mg) often, usually 50mg IV...but I have plugged several times..

Logic would tell me that the BA of ms contin rectally should be same as orally, both are absorbed by opiate receptors in digestive tract..so I would think what changes ppls interpretation of the BA difference between PO/IR would be rate of absorption (oral swallowed in time release formula, and rectal uses heat extraction and places it directly in digestive tract)

Imo, when I chew and such on er ms contin formula, I get same BA as rectal admin...but im a strong believer in preception is 80%...

Anyone agree or disagree with my reasoning?? Im very open to new ideas and others opinions..


***I also wanted to share a new/different ROA for the ms contins that ive never heard of others doing..
I prep a 1mg syring for injection..(if unaware how google how to.....)
Then remove needle, of applicable.
While laying down, slowly drip down nose and lightly sniff..try to keep in sinus for a few mins..
And get instantly high
The IV prep creates a 1ml water solution of pureish morph, anything not absorbed in sinus will be absorbed in digestive tract..
One can also use this for a cleaner plugging, an instant release oral solution, or IV which is best IMO.

How do you prep MSContin for IV?

 

[Prettyboy12]

I know on many occasions I read the BA of Morphine rectally taken is no better then BA of morphine orally taken but i too beg to differ on this. I was prescribed morphine MS Contin for pain relief for awhile when I first started on stronger opiates and plugging MS Contin was atleast 25%-50% stronger feeling to me when taken this way. SO I completely agree with you on this and it's out of months of personal trial and error, not just medical statistics.

I've been switched over to Hydromorphone instant release now in the form of 6 4mg doses a day. I plug these doses as well now & even though it's a morphine derivative & has the same respective BA issues I feel plugging it "enema" style with a little bit of water and a needless syringe is by the far the most effective ROA to take it.

So I feel despite the numbers rectal administration of morphine and morphine derivatives are still higher when taken this route.

Hydromorphone crushed and dissolved in water then IV that shit…better than heroin!

 

[Prettyboy12]

What is wrong with you medically that you have to take dilaudid?

I get dilaudid and hydrocodone for severe chronic leg pain