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Please Dissect
- Thread starter pinwheel
- Start date
I think jansen mentions that rats (and probably rabbits) can show damage if you inject them with enormous amounts of K every hour for several months on end, but no damage has ever been reproduced in primates because of the different metabolic rates and other reasons.
Bottom line is K is almost certainly harmless when used sensibly. Snort it once every month or so and you'll have more risk of brain damage from your computer screen and mobile phone.
Bottom line is K is almost certainly harmless when used sensibly. Snort it once every month or so and you'll have more risk of brain damage from your computer screen and mobile phone.
In re: To those who think questioning William E. White's motives is not the way to dissect his 1998 article "This is Your Brain on Dissociatives [version 0.1]," I quote Erowid.org:
"Know your source."
This, as we all know, applies to food, drugs, sex, housing, airline tickets, and especially information. I don't know this man called William White, and the fact that when I tried to question his authority, a moderator on this board [Sebastian...] compared my postings to a closed thread reminds me how little most of us know about dissociatives.
And this is WHY it is not ok for an article that is basically one big scare tactic should not be accepted, especially "deemed" excellent by our two main Internet drug resources, the Lycaeum and Erowid. Both Lycaeum and Erowid want minimum responsibility for users' actions, naturally. But by endorsing White's article, they are endorsing the history of scare-and-confuse tactics by governments across the world.
I think kids drinking cough syrup "to get fucked up" is probably not a good thing. Especially if one dies. But the way to PREVENT those deaths, and to PREVENT brain damage, which SHOULD be the aim of White's article, like he SAYS, should at least explore ways to PREVENT damage! WHITE SAYS, however, that "There is, to my knowledge, NO way of knowing how susceptible you are." DIRECTLY above this statement White says nitrous oxide use depletes vitamin b12, causing damage. If White wanted to truly take the time to create a document that would help prevent brain damage, he would have mentioned AT LEAST this fact.
And, as far as his DATA goes, White states it took him "much time" to review JOHN W. OLNEY's [whose name he never writes fully] work, interview heavy dissociative users, and perform other research. But where are these interviews? White says heavy dissociative users "definitely" have brain damage, but later says many users reported their "'brain damage' [the only qualitative evidence of this damage White suggests in his paper is Olney's lesions] cleared up in a few months."
"Know your source."
This, as we all know, applies to food, drugs, sex, housing, airline tickets, and especially information. I don't know this man called William White, and the fact that when I tried to question his authority, a moderator on this board [Sebastian...] compared my postings to a closed thread reminds me how little most of us know about dissociatives.
And this is WHY it is not ok for an article that is basically one big scare tactic should not be accepted, especially "deemed" excellent by our two main Internet drug resources, the Lycaeum and Erowid. Both Lycaeum and Erowid want minimum responsibility for users' actions, naturally. But by endorsing White's article, they are endorsing the history of scare-and-confuse tactics by governments across the world.
I think kids drinking cough syrup "to get fucked up" is probably not a good thing. Especially if one dies. But the way to PREVENT those deaths, and to PREVENT brain damage, which SHOULD be the aim of White's article, like he SAYS, should at least explore ways to PREVENT damage! WHITE SAYS, however, that "There is, to my knowledge, NO way of knowing how susceptible you are." DIRECTLY above this statement White says nitrous oxide use depletes vitamin b12, causing damage. If White wanted to truly take the time to create a document that would help prevent brain damage, he would have mentioned AT LEAST this fact.
And, as far as his DATA goes, White states it took him "much time" to review JOHN W. OLNEY's [whose name he never writes fully] work, interview heavy dissociative users, and perform other research. But where are these interviews? White says heavy dissociative users "definitely" have brain damage, but later says many users reported their "'brain damage' [the only qualitative evidence of this damage White suggests in his paper is Olney's lesions] cleared up in a few months."
His "evidence" is total horseshit. He says things like "People have come up to me and told me that K has caused them brain damage".
Excuse me but does the word science mean anything to you William? Lots of people say they've seen Elvis riding the loch ness monster as well. Without proof you don't tend to believe them.
Unless these people who say K has given them brain damage can state categorically
1) When they took K and how often
2) How pure was the source.
3) Were they taking coke, acid, PCP. DXM and every other drug imaginable at the same time.
4) What they consider "brain damage" to be.
You can pretty much take everything William says with an enormous pinch of salt. The guy wouldn't know his arsehole from his elbow.
Excuse me but does the word science mean anything to you William? Lots of people say they've seen Elvis riding the loch ness monster as well. Without proof you don't tend to believe them.
Unless these people who say K has given them brain damage can state categorically
1) When they took K and how often
2) How pure was the source.
3) Were they taking coke, acid, PCP. DXM and every other drug imaginable at the same time.
4) What they consider "brain damage" to be.
You can pretty much take everything William says with an enormous pinch of salt. The guy wouldn't know his arsehole from his elbow.
Doesn't he say some BS like "There havn't been any cases of brain damage with K so far but we are just starting to see them coming through".
Three years later we're still waiting for them to come through.
William, it was really nothing...
Three years later we're still waiting for them to come through.
William, it was really nothing...
"Since then, Onley's lesions, also known as NMDA Antagonist Neurotoxicity or NAN, have been discovered with ketamine, PCP, and dextrorphan (the metabolite of DXM), as well as a bunch of dissociative drugs you won't find outside of a research lab."
-William E. White (This is Your Brain on Dissociatives)
Don't tell us who or when or why or how or where. Why not?
Why doesn't he tell us where to find Olney's studies?
-William E. White (This is Your Brain on Dissociatives)
Don't tell us who or when or why or how or where. Why not?
Why doesn't he tell us where to find Olney's studies?
"With DXM, for maximum safety I recommend one week per plateau between uses (and at least a month if not two between the extremely-dangerous 'plateau sigma' trips). With ketamine, two weeks between uses would be the approximate equivalent." -WW
White says in his article that DXM falls "somewhere in the middle" in his scale of neurotoxicity of dissociatives, between k and PCP. But in the quote above, it seems he is suggesting ketamine is more damaging, despite his warnings about the duration of the dissociative you are doing being the most dangerous aspect. (His recommendation to stay off nitrous is basically: Don't carry enough cash to buy more)
Again, more confusing information about plateaus, (platea sigma?!?!) length of time to re-dose (White says wait a week "per plateau" for DXM, and then suggests not re-dosing with DXM until "at leat 2 days" after a dose)
I think White also underestimates the addiction-potential for these drugs. He says they are "not nearly as addicting" as cocaine and heroin and nicotine, which has not been the case at least in my experience (with cocaine, not sure about nicotine), and by essentially telling kids that it's ok to take a '1st plateau' dose of DXM every 2 days....
well, you know what I mean...
White says in his article that DXM falls "somewhere in the middle" in his scale of neurotoxicity of dissociatives, between k and PCP. But in the quote above, it seems he is suggesting ketamine is more damaging, despite his warnings about the duration of the dissociative you are doing being the most dangerous aspect. (His recommendation to stay off nitrous is basically: Don't carry enough cash to buy more)
Again, more confusing information about plateaus, (platea sigma?!?!) length of time to re-dose (White says wait a week "per plateau" for DXM, and then suggests not re-dosing with DXM until "at leat 2 days" after a dose)
I think White also underestimates the addiction-potential for these drugs. He says they are "not nearly as addicting" as cocaine and heroin and nicotine, which has not been the case at least in my experience (with cocaine, not sure about nicotine), and by essentially telling kids that it's ok to take a '1st plateau' dose of DXM every 2 days....
well, you know what I mean...