• 💊 OTHER DRUGS 💊 Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads 1 Notable Threads 2
    Dangerous Combos Addiction Support
    Emergency Services Benzo Guide v.1
    Addiction Stories Scary Case Studies
    Biology, Pharmacology & Drugs 101
  • Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Played with Fire and Got Burned - Need Help with Sub Taper

Are you still on bupe, tapering? If you are crawling out of your skin and have recently cut your dose in half (say) it is not going to be the end of the world or ruin your taper if you take a larger dose today, and a smaller dose tomorrow, and just try to usually keep to the smaller dose, and increasingly spread out the larger dose to 2-3 days, then continue tapering. even if taking more bupe than that it is preferable than going back to dope. You are doing a good job, clearly. It is not the end of the world to have to halt the taper for a little while or go back a bit. Certainly it is a step backwards if you were to go way back to your original dose but you're not talking about that. Sometimes you need to modulate your dose a little more carefully during the taper, although this is also not the orthodox medical practice. Whatever you do with your bupe dose, it'sbetter than a full on dope relapse. Whatever you do hope you find yourself feeling better and safe and without a doubt you can feel proud of what you are already doing.

This post or any of my communications do not constitute professional advice nor do they establish a professional relationship of any kind; I make no claim to any specific professional credentials; in person consultation is essential for any medical, psychological, substance-related or harm reduction decisions. While peer support an advice can be helpful, any content posted online, regardless of it's source, cannot, by it's very nature, substitute for an in-person relationship with a clinician who has had the opportunity to take your history in the larger context and provide professional advice with all these factors, and others, taken into account.
 
Thank you. I hadn't gotten any responses and was full on ready to cop after work. Instead I'm going to go home and take a bupe dose as I haven't had any today. I wanted to just drop after yesterday as I'm only on .5 and running low but I think I need to at least another day. At least I ended up spacing my dose out further. I really just wanted to get high and forget the taper but that's how I got here in the first place
 
I took .5 after 36 hours. O may try and jump again or take .25 tonight (24 hours) or did you mean 48 hours
 
I tried skipping yesterday, and ended up relapsing. 1 bag at 7 pm. I had just come from my pdoc appointment and was so angry that he made me wait to see him to get a longer acting benzo and then told me to keep tapering with the Xanax. So I justified it completely "gonna feel like shit might as well get h." I cried as soon as it was done. The last time I cried while shooting was years ago when I was homeless with a bundle a day habit. Why can't I just fucking do this. And I ran out of subs, so I paid a lot more than usual to get one more (I knew this source just had subs and no h so I thought I'd be safer paying extra). I also called my pdoc and told him, he called in a script for gabapentin and to go back to 2 mg Xanax and stay there for now.

I have no friends and no family here in Florida. I came here in the first place to get clean and I'm a complete failure. If I'm not thinking about h I'm freaking out about the Xanax taper, or suicide, because I'm still a selfish drug addict at the end of the day.


Okay enough rambling. What do I do with this 8 mg strip and this gabapentin? Why is it so hard for me to kick the shortest and smallest habit I've ever had?
 
Hey Enough, feel free to PM as well, but how much Gabapentin (Neurontin) did you manage to get a hold of? Do you have a tolerance to Gabapentinoids at the moment? I would avoid using the Gabapentin and the Buprenorphine simultaneously. Gabapentin can be very effective at reducing the various symptoms of Opioid withdrawal and so you should use it as a crutch or stop-gap to either reduce or aid you in tapering from the Opioids.

Gabapentin can be a difficult drug to work with, so if you're inexperienced with it, I'd really suggest doing some research. It's bioavailability fluctuates wildly based upon different variables like frequency/staggering of dosage, stomach contents and so on. Knowing how to take the medication effectively will provide you with the most benefit.
 
Second the above.

Also, one bag relapse isn't really enough to matter a great deal, as dope has quite a short half life and bupe quite a long one; doing just a big (or a few) over a short period of time is not enough that you will have to deal with precipitated withdrawal; you can just pick up on bupe where you left off or if necessary increase the dose.

I am very surprised your doc wants you on X|A|N|A|X as opposed to a longer-acting BZD. It's almost universally agreed upon that alprazolam is a more abuse- and addiction-prone substance than Klonipin or Valium, and that the latter two are best for tapers (Valium is the best, cf.the Ashton protocol, but not all doctors see eye to eye with this.)

Neurontin can be of tremendous help, though. You may need highish doses to deal with your current situation but it is a good comfort drug in withdrawal (off of many things), although it is itself more addiction-prone than most of the medical literature/conventional wisdom has it, as far as I am concerned. That doesn't mean not to put it to appropriate use here, however.

This post or any of my communications do not constitute professional advice nor do they establish a professional relationship of any kind; I make no claim to any specific professional credentials; in person consultation is essential for any medical, psychological, substance-related or harm reduction decisions. While peer support an advice can be helpful, any content posted online, regardless of it's source, cannot, by it's very nature, substitute for an in-person relationship with a clinician who has had the opportunity to take your history in the larger context and provide professional advice with all these factors, and others, taken into account.
 
Hey keif I messsGed you. Was prescribed 600 mg a day. I don't know why he won't switch me, on our last appointment he wanted to switch me to clonazapam. He still might if I have trouble tapering more. I don't understand it either.
 
Resumed taper, took 1.5 today, want to get off as soon as i can since I was on it 6 or 7 days before my relapse. Am I going to be hooked on the subs? What do I do with the gabapentin?
 
Yes at this point, including your relapse, you've had more bupe than heroin. IMO everything you are doing is counterproductive. The problem isn't physical wd symptoms to begin with. They're psychological. I suggest you either take the proper amount of bupe for maintenance purposes and cravings or find the will power to stop both dope and bupe. Put it into perspective over the past 3 weeks you have consumed less than a bun right? And maybe 2-3 subs? It's psychological. If you need maintenance to control cravings then why not just do it the right way?
 
No, I've consumed maybe 1 sub. I don't have the resources to go on maintenance (my insurance won't cover it) I want off the subs as painlessly as possible. And while I'm inclined to agree that the cravings are psychological, despite how hard it might be to believe, I have been experiencing physical symptoms as well. I think a lot of this has to do with the kindling effect and my history with opiates, a concept I didnt believe in until I experienced it for myself. At this point I could use any advice on how to use the sub I have left with the gaba most effectively. I have 6 mg sub left and took 1.5 this morning. My body temperature is fluctuating and I'm having GI symptoms but I'm not bed ridden. Should I take 1.5 again tomorrow, then 1 for 2 days, then .5 then .25 until I run out, or just drop as quickly as possible? Where does the gaba come into play here?
 
If I were you, at this point, is take the lowest amount possible, and before bed so as not to screw up my sleep, and wait as long as possible to take more.

If you cannot deal with that, perhaps because come morning you *need* to take something, maybe try splitting that bed time dose, either half at night and half in the morning, or taking most of it before bed and the bit thats left in thee morning just as a trick to make your mind feel satisfied.

I know you are struggling and bring told to use willpower doesn't seem helpful; but it's the only way, unless you get on official maintenance with bupe.

Sometimes a change in perspective can be helpful. What are your fears?

I think whatever you are afraid of is making this harder than it needs to be for you. I feel you, hon. I'm not judging. Just for the record.

Hope you are well.

Peace. Xo
 
Hey all. Jumped off suboxone last Friday. Trying to utilize this gaba but I'm not sure I'm doing it right. And I think the reason I keep relapsing is that I'm in benzo withdrawal constantly, but as a seasoned h addict, I attribute it to that. Tapering with Xanax is needlessly difficult. The interdose withdrawal I feel on a daily basis makes me crave dope. I feel trapped. Plus no one knows about this. My family thinks I'm clean, my friends think I just smoke. I'm going to end up relapsing again and again and since I never know which drug is causing which symptom.
 
Enough999 said:
Hey all. Jumped off suboxone last Friday. Trying to utilize this gaba but I'm not sure I'm doing it right. And I think the reason I keep relapsing is that I'm in benzo withdrawal constantly, but as a seasoned h addict, I attribute it to that. Tapering with Xanax is needlessly difficult. The interdose withdrawal I feel on a daily basis makes me crave dope. I feel trapped. Plus no one knows about this. My family thinks I'm clean, my friends think I just smoke. I'm going to end up relapsing again and again and since I never know which drug is causing which symptom.
Click to expand...

DO you mean gaba as in gabapentin or actual gaba (gamma-aminobutyracid) ? And how much do you take a day ?
 
Don't give up, babe. Don't throwe in the towel. Aren't you stick of the lifestyle? The waiting? The anxiety? I know I am. Attempting another kick soon myself. For me the hardest part is that the nature of health problems I have makes withdrawal all the harder, my body can barely take it. Its frightening, physically. But I got this. I got this. I see a light at the end of the tunnel - where I'm free of this drama, and can use that time and energy to do things that will improve my life.....things that will help me get physically healthier and leave this disgusting joke of a marriage.

Don't give up. Keep your eye in the prize. WE are all stronger than we give ourselves credit for.

Sending much love, strength, fortitude, and clarity your way. xo
 
I just wana say i battled with suboxone for 8+years heroin/ and many fent analogs..and im happy to says that i have been clean from ALL opiates for 120 days...and you guys wanting to really get off this shit...YOU CAN DO IT.. Know it sounds cheezys and allat but dats real.it aint guna be easy..if u can utilize gabapentin,benzo(maybe) fot a short while.and Ibuprofen..800's if u can...
As for the suboxone taper jumo off the lowest u can.. .25mg or less..

Idk ijust wantd to say that YES its guna b hard,even when jumping off at the lowest. Suboxone aint no joke..and trust me at end of it all ur guna thank yourself and be a new person and have a crazy new FRESH outlook on life. .i mean maybe u will maybe not but u wont be tied diwn by the dreaded buprenorphine handcuffs.
 
Alss just wanted to say i still take and am prescribed gabapentin 600mg 4/day..which i take mAybe 1-3 day...and ambien for sleep..and i defenitely number one medication for meeting that helped and still does is Marijuana..without a doubt..
I use it for pain i have from a car accident and also for my appetite anf anxiety..
 
This is not necessarily directed at OP, whose habit sounds like it is unlikely to run into trouble from precipitated withdrawal. This post is more for people who stumble into this thread with serious habits, and read SKL's advice. Regarding:

SKL said:
My "patented" Suboxone rapid taper formula:


IF YOU INDEED HAVE A SERIOUS HABIT:

(And this is also posted for posterity)

This is a slight departure from medical orthodoxy and a definitive departure from the box insert, but it is considerably more comfortable, but you need access to a decent amount of Suboxone at least for the beginning.

1. At first sign of withdrawal, take 8mg of Suboxone. ********this is too much if you have a small habit, and you shouldn't be bothering with suboxone anyway if that's the case
2. Every 30 minutes feeling precipitated withdrawal, take an additional 1-2mg. ******ditto
3. You will wind up at quite high a dose (12-32mg probably) ****ditto
4. Immediately down to 8mg, or 12mg if 8mg is intolerable. ****you get the idea
5. Down to 4mg, 1mg per day.
6. Down to 2mg, 0.5mg per day.
7. Down to 0.125mg, halving dose each day, using if necessary nasal RoA or a medicine-dropper.

This is if you don't want to stay on long-term; otherwise stop at step 5 or at 8mg and a gradual taper to 4mg, which I would consider an ideal maintenance dose.

Notes:

Contrary to popular belief, precipated withdrawal can be defeated by increasing Suboxone dose, the dose just has to be large, as it will occupy all of the μ-receptors eventually, even the ones that it has kicked off your typical μ-agonist like heroin, hence steps 1 & 2.
Click to expand...

This advice is, in my experience, not good for all serious habits. When I was using heroin I didn't have a problem with precipitated WD as long as I took enough bup. But it is not always the case that you can break out of precipitated withdrawal by using more buprenorphine. About a year ago I switched my drug of choice from street dope to fentanyl HCL powder from the internet. After a while, I got up to about 14mg/day of fent, which is admittedly a shitload. I precipitated withdrawal by taking bup (started at 6mg) as soon as I started feeling sick (sweating, shitting, cold). Some notes from that experience:

1. What followed was by far the most severe withdrawal I've ever experienced. I've been using for 14 years, and gone through WD hundreds of times, but nothing, even cold turkey from similar fent doses, came close to the severity of the precip. Many times worse than cold turkey from 1g/day h habit.

2. I had 30 count 8mg generic subutex on hand. After the initial dose, I took more and more and more. It was hard to keep anything under my tongue with the vomit, but I ended up dissolving 4 or 5 tablets under my tongue. It did not bring relief within the usual 45min. I had to suffer through 3-4 hours of the worst withdrawal I had ever encountered before I could hold still, stop puking, et cetera.

3. Since then, I've made the mistake twice more. Each time from not waiting long enough after the fent to take bup. Each time it has been horrible with no way out except to wait. One of those experiences lasted over 12 hours before the precip faded, and I settled onto the buprenorphine. Other times, I've waited 2-3 days after my last fent dose to take bup; the total suffering during the waiting period is not even close to the total suffering from even the shorter of my precipitated withdrawal experience.


SKL's other advice regarding post-acute withdrawal and jumping off bup from low doses is good. I don't know about testosterone supplementation. It might help with the "meek" feeling we're all familiar with after getting clean. I've jumped very low and very high. Low jumps are definitely gentler. High jumps from bup still aren't too terrible compared to other things, but it all depends on your, er, sensitivity.

On post-acute withdrawal associated nightmares and sleep problems: if you have a doctor, consider asking them about prazosin. It's an alpha blocker used back-in-the-day for high blood pressure. Lately, a lot of research has been done on using it off-label to treat people with PTSD-induced night terrors. I have had very good luck with prazosin killing my night terrors, which follow me around for months and months after kicking, or even moving from full to partial agonist. It's also a mild sedative, and helps me get more restful sleep.

Parting remark: I'm not posting this to diss on SKL, or to start an argument. I'm sharing a number of anecdotes relating to precipitated withdrawal (which OD has tones of threads on) to try and help any passing readers. These experiences of mine are in direct opposition to SKL's claim that you can dose your way out of precipitated withdrawal with more buprenorphine. You may well suffer far more during that precip period than you would during the suggested 2-3 day wait-- that has been my experience.
 
Last edited:
Bupe does have a ceiling dose (~24mg) and if you're going to need more than that (as in a huge fentanyl habit), then yes, you are indeed fucked. And yes you must wait until it is absolutely intolerable to start the bupe taper-up. Agreed on those matters. In more conventional situations though I'd go with my plan, worked for me and many others. But a shitload of fentanyl is a bit of a different story.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top