Diet Plant based diets - fact from fiction

thegreenhand

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Plant based diets - fact from fiction

So I’ve seen a lot of misconceptions about plant based diets and I wanted to clear some of them up for those who might be interested.

First off, what even is a plant based diet?

According to wikipedia, “A plant-based diet is a diet consisting mostly or entirely of foods derived from plants, including vegetables, grains, nuts, seeds, legumes and fruits, and with few or no animal products.”

Pretty simple, you eat mostly or entirely plants. Now here is where I think the confusion begins, are foods “plant based” even if they have been refined and processed to hell? I would argue no. I think a big reason this misconception began is that veganism is often conflated with plant based diets. Veganism is defined on wikipedia as “the practice of abstaining from the use of animal products, particularly in diet, and an associated philosophy that rejects the commodity status of animals

From these definitions, the difference is clear: plant based diets are centered on eating mainly plants for health reasons, whereas veganism avoids animal products for ethical reasons. So an oreo, which contains no animal products is vegan but arguably not plant based (the processing involved removes it so far from being anything close to a plant). To avoid confusion the term whole food plant based (WFPB) can be used. This refers to eating unprocessed plant foods, essentially fresh produce.

For an athlete I think it’s obvious they would choose a WFPB diet as opposed to one that is merely vegan. Potato chips, fake sausage, and almond milk ice cream - while vegan - are certainly not WFPB. The rest of this writeup assumes that the person of interest is eating primarily a WFPB diet which or may not be vegan/vegetarian depending on their ethical stances.

Now onto the science…

I’ll do this part as a sort of short FAQ, but feel free to ask any additional questions you may have and I’ll try to answer them.

Can you get enough protein?
This is one of, if not the, most asked questions about plant based diets. The answer is yes you definitely can. Here is a nice table displaying myths and reality from a literature review done by Young and Pellet in 1994 (old I know but it’s an excellent writeup). Copy and pasting the table was having some issue sos just sue the imgur link to see that part and the sci hub link for the full article.


https://sci-hub.scihubtw.tw/https://doi.org/10.1093/ajcn/59.5.1203S

I’m busy right now but I’ll try to find more recent research and add them in as I find them. The review was just a quick and easy solution.

Are plant based diets expensive?
The results of a 2019 study on socioeconomic factors in relation to plant vs animal protein concluded that: “Plant-based protein diets may be a cost-effective way to improve diet quality at all levels of income. Future research needs to evaluate the quality of plant-based protein in relation to amino acids and health.” Yes I will concede the least sentence of that conclusion, but note that it doesn't say “they don’t work” it says “we don’t know”.
And this is just my own anecdote but the poorest parts of the world live off plant based diet staples - beans, lentils, rice, quinoa etc etc. Look at hispanic food or Indian food for wonderful examples and cooking inspiration.

Is soy bad for you?
Soy is a staple in plant based diets as it is a complete protein and very cheap. There have been criticisms that the phytoestrogens in soy can lead to negative effects for males. A 2018 study concluded “Sex hormone network and thyroid gland perturbation seems to be unlikely, especially with low isoflavone intakes actually reported in vegetarian. Overall, the low content of bioactive compounds in second generation soy foods and moderate amounts in traditional soy preparations offer modest health benefits with very limited risk for potential adverse health effects” Also let’s keep in mind that dairy milk contains actual mammalian estrogen and not phytoestrogens as soy does. Also most cattle are fed soy based feed so unless you buy purely grass fed, you’re getting it anyways.


I could go on but since I do have actual school work to do I’ll conclude it at that. Sorry the faq/science section was so short but I figure my time is better spent responding to specific questions people have, so please ask any questions that come to mind and I’ll try to answer them with some research. Thanks for reading. Peace
 
Plant based diets (note, not vegetarian or vegan per se) show the best results across the board. A close runner up are pescetarians (fish eaters).

Plant based is amazing for health as long as you're eating a diverse diet and maybe supplementing with animal products here and there.
 
Pescatarianism is a great healthful diet indeed

I don't think it's necessary to have animal products if one chooses not to. There aren't any nutrients besides vitamin B12 that you can't get from plants alone. And if you take supplement for it here or there you'll be fine. Most livestock are given B12 supplements too actually. I've been vegan for close to year now and have only felt better the longer I've gone on. I don't wanna push any agenda (because I don't have one) but there isn't really any evidence you NEED animal products
 
It’s strange to look down upon vegan processed foods but follow up with points like that on Soy (the most commonly processed plant for various products and not often eaten alone.). You talk bad about processed crap vegans eat yet then say they are ok as well supplement with b12 (very natural.)

I personally believe a diet of mainly plants, healthy fats and some meat is the way to go.

I’ve got many friends who are vegan, I’ve watched some who’ve been at it for 5+yrs and as I’ve said before every one of them seems to be unknowingly suffering from this dietary change. Mood disorders/depression, Grey hair, losing teeth, losing muscle mass.

They’ll talk down for eating a piece of meat but then I watch as I eat much more vegetables than they do as well. Most vegans eat processed crap (you almost have to..) and don’t really walk the walk compared to their talk.

The typical vegan often eats processed artificial meat products designed to barely meat (pun intended) the macronutrient standards of actual meat while missing other micronutrients that overall promote healthy functioning.

They also eat a lot of sugary foods and products, tons of fruit, and many vegan promoted foods are sugar laden. I can’t stress enough just how bad sugar is for ones overall physical and mental health.

Then there’s all the stupid myths and misconceptions that show most vegans have zero understanding of how obtaining our food actually works which is just the icing on the cake

It only takes looking at my health and those around me who truly eat healthy VS those that follow a vegan lifestyle to see which way is the right way for proper human health. I’m sure there’s a right way to do it but doesn’t seem like anyone I know has found it yet.

-GC
 
Haha, I went through a plant based phase. Researched it to the moon and back. Ate everything I was supposed to. Lost 5kg of muscle in no time. I couldn’t eat the amount of food that would have equated to the protein I needed. Literally, it was way too much. If you’ve a large stomach and can eat all day then yeah, maybe you’ll get your protein requirements. You’ll definitely need B12 and a few other supplemented. I was low on b vitamins, iron and calcium and d but I do live in Ireland.

edit to add: I only learned as I went that I needed to eat more for my protein, through speaking to other athletes. I could physically not do it although I tried my best.
 
I brought up the soy in regards to Asian staples like tofu, tempeh, and soymilk. Never said that the process crap is good. The foods I just listed are not what i would consider heavily processed foods, like the fake meat so common nowadays. No more processed than say cheese as a comparison. Sugar is a problem for most people tbh. Sugar from fruit comes with large amounts of fiber which helps to clear out the toxic effects of sugar. And as for b12 it actually only comes from dirt so if you don’t wash your veggies you don’t need a supplement but i think I’ll stick to washing them lol.

I tried to make it clear in the first part that this is about plant based diets, not veganism. I don’t think it’s fair to compare your experience with vegan friends who you say eat like shit. I stated in the OP that this is about athletes (hence being posted in SIED) who presumably know better than to eat that crap and know the importance of having a balanced diet. But if you insist that veganism is the problem I encourage you to look up endurance athletes like Scott Jurek or Rich Roll who are thriving and at the top of their game. Justin fields (Ohio State star quarterback) has gone vegan too with great results he says. Tom Brady has been vegan for a while now too. For athletes who care about putting together a proper diet it can be done and done very well.


I do happen to be vegan for spiritual reasons but that’s not what this write up was really about. I’m not trying to say people shouldn’t eat animal products just that one does not need to if they don’t want to and the main point being that eating a diet of mostly plants is a healthy way to live.
 
they are pretty bad. Humans were originally carnivores then omnivore. You miss out alot of amino acids and things from not eating meat
 
Haha, I went through a plant based phase. Researched it to the moon and back. Ate everything I was supposed to. Lost 5kg of muscle in no time. I couldn’t eat the amount of food that would have equated to the protein I needed. Literally, it was way too much. If you’ve a large stomach and can eat all day then yeah, maybe you’ll get your protein requirements. You’ll definitely need B12 and a few other supplemented. I was low on b vitamins, iron and calcium and d but I do live in Ireland.

edit to add: I only learned as I went that I needed to eat more for my protein, through speaking to other athletes. I could physically not do it although I tried my best.
Yeah i do eat a shit ton of food i’m not gonna lie. Plants are just less dense so you need more volume. that’s where the abundance of fiber comes in handy since you can always make more room lol
 
Yeah i do eat a shit ton of food i’m not gonna lie. Plants are just less dense so you need more volume. that’s where the abundance of fiber comes in handy since you can always make more room lol
It was impossible for me. I lost so much muscle. I think it’s healthy but you really do need a meat source in there. Living in Ireland we have really organic meat options and plenty of fish and what not so it’s easy for me to get.
 
It was impossible for me. I lost so much muscle. I think it’s healthy but you really do need a meat source in there. Living in Ireland we have really organic meat options and plenty of fish and what not so it’s easy for me to get.
Lemme make clear - I’m not saying that meat is unhealthy, bad, etc. But I would like to see your source that it’s needed?
 
Lemme make clear - I’m not saying that meat is unhealthy, bad, etc. But I would like to see your source that it’s needed?
I’m honestly gonna have to hoke out all my old stuff from ages ago and I’m not at work right now as it’s night here so I’ll look tomorrow. But even if I did show you a ton of links none of them will convince you. It’s something you need to see for yourself, I know it was something I needed to see. Come back to this thread in a year and let me know how you’re getting on.
 
I’m honestly gonna have to hoke out all my old stuff from ages ago and I’m not at work right now as it’s night here so I’ll look tomorrow. But even if I did show you a ton of links none of them will convince you. It’s something you need to see for yourself, I know it was something I needed to see. Come back to this thread in a year and let me know how you’re getting on.
will do :)
 
from my chemistry degree. If you are straight vegan you only have a few years of vitamins reversed til they run out then your in big trouble. A all meat diet is acutally way better than been a vegan since that is natures way. Owesly the king of lsd was a meat only eater.
 
from my chemistry degree. If you are straight vegan you only have a few years of vitamins reversed til they run out then your in big trouble. A all meat diet is acutally way better than been a vegan since that is natures way. Owesly the king of lsd was a meat only eater.
do fruits and vegetables not have vitamins now or something?
 
besides b12 and d3 (which many people are deficient in anyways) can you name them? genuinely curious because i havent come across this before
 
Creatine would be something you can't acquire from plant based diet. Just like B12 or D3 though it's pretty easy to supplement.

I would argue that the protein quality and anabolic influence from a plant based source vs a meat source will be inferior due to amino acid profile.

Higher fiber in some digestive systems do not equate to a better outcome as well. People with GI irregularities tend to suffer quite a bit trying to eat diets with extremely high fiber content.

Some food for thought...

The Role of the Anabolic Properties of Plant- versus Animal-Based Protein Sources in Supporting Muscle Mass Maintenance

Human Skeletal Muscle Protein Metabolism Responses to Amino Acid Nutrition
 
Creatine is a good point. As an endurance athlete I haven't given too much thought to it. I believe that creatine synthesis occurs in the body with adequate levels of glycine, arginine, and methionine but what it would take to hit those I dont know

That second study seemed to conclude that by combining cereal grains and legumes (eg. peanut butter sandwich on whole grain bread, rice and beans) and choosing high quality complete plant proteins (quinoa comes to mind) one can achieve a proper amino acid profile

I skimmed through the second study but I'm not quite sure you're getting at with it. I gathered from it that as long as leucine is at adequate levels then proper protein absorption will occur. Could you elaborate a bit on what you meant?
 
There are some arguments for both. For health and longevity, plant based with small portions of meat would be ideal to round out your micronutrients. For gainz, plant based at least for me doesn't have the caloric density I need to maintain a comfortable caloric surplus. When I'm dieting I lean more plant based as they tend to be more micro dense and satiating.
It's important to differentiate the purposes behind dietary structures and use what makes your goals attainable and sustainable.
 
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