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Phenibut withdrawal/taper w fasoracetam

Confession; I started using Kratom again a couple weeks ago. I'm not worried about this as I know I can taper fairly easily off the Kratom if I don't use for more than a month or so straight. I've noticed that when I take agmatine with the Kratom the effects are much much more powerful. I'm starting to think the agmatine is part of the reason why my Phenibut this taper has gone so well. My tolerance to Kratom used to increase pretty rapidly over the course of a week. I did notice some tolerance increase over the first week, but I wasn't using agmatine concurrently. I was taking agmatine, but I would take it early in the morning or later in the evening when I take my Phenibut. I take Kratom around lunch time usually. In the last week I started taking agmatine at the same time as the Kratom and my tolerance has decreased by a very noticeable amount. A week ago I was taking as much as 20 grams of Red Vein Thai. The effects were good but not terribly strong. Yesterday I took 10 grams of the exact same strain, and same batch with 1.5 grams of agmatine and the effects were very very powerful. A little stronger than I like. Much more powerful than the 20 gram doses and they seemed to last considerably longer. Today I took 7.5 grams with agmatine and it was still strong. Almost too strong. Once it started wearing off I took more agmatine and it seems to be helping the duration of effects considerably. I had to play around with the agmatine dosage before I noticed the potentiation and what seems to be lowering of tolerance. 1/2 gram to 1 gram of agmatine didn't seem to do much. But at 1.5 - 2 grams it works like a charm. I'll definitely be keeping agmatine on hand. I never want to touch Phenibut again and plan on flushing it as soon as I finish this taper. But Kratom I like and intend to continue to use. I'll still take a week or two off every month or so and I think the agmatine could help with that considerably. Making the taper easier and keeping my tolerance fairly low.
 
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I know this isn't technically a Kratom thread, but if you've read my posts it's part of the Phenibut journey I've been on recently. Just wanted to update that I'm down to 300 mg Phenibut. Today is my second day on that dose. Felt a little anxious this morning but feel fine now. Jumping in 2 days.
 
As Phenibut is an uncontrolled, readily available chemical, why not just do a stepwise taper and not put yourself through hell? I doubt that one month of use will be enough to cause a crippling withdrawal syndrome. I think you can expect some discomfort and anxiety, but this can all be mitigated greatly by just performing a taper.
 
@Keif'Richards If you read the thread you'll see that a steady taper is what I did. Not sure what "hell" you're referring too.

Today is the first day of my jump. Zero Phenibut. I feel great. At this point I really don't think I'll get any symptoms. They off course could creep up tomorrow, but knowing the half life is about 5 hours I think I would have felt something by now if it was going to happen. It's been over 24 hours since my last dose of 300 mg of Phenibut. I'll monitor myself for symptoms for a couple days and report back. If I don't feel anything tomorrow I'll be getting rid of the rest of my Phenibut supply. I truly believe that agmatine helped tremendously. If you have a dependency to Phenibut please know that you can taper off successfully. I was only using for about 5 weeks before I started tapering but I had literally zero withdrawal symptoms tapering down 300 mg every 3 days, with my daily dose divided into 2 doses per day. Sooooo glad to be feee from that substance.
 
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It's been over 36 hours since my last 300 mg dose of Phenibut. Feel 100%. No symptoms. Glad it was so painless. Grateful I didn't use it longer. Threw out the rest of my supply. Staying away from that one forever. Now I need to get off the Kratom....again. Not too worried. Going to taper with agmatine over a week or so them jump. Again, I'll keep this thread updated.
 
Since this thread was originally about fasoracetam and Phenibut I thought I'd update on my experience with fasoracetam since my Phenibut taper has ended. I did not use the fasoracetam during my taper, except once. That one time I was going through multiple withdrawals (benzo, Kratom, maybe Phenibut) and didn't get any positive effects from the dose. It may have made me feel a little worse but it was really hard to tell what was going on at the time due to all the withdrawals.

Fast forward to the last few days. I successfully tapered off the Phenibut with virtually no withdrawal symptoms. It's been about 5 days since I jumped. About 3 days after I jumped I began to experiment with the fasoracetam. First I tried 40 mg. I definitively felt some mild anxiety reduction along with a low grade "buzz" that was similar to Phenibut. Next day I tried 100 mg and today I tried 120 mg. It has definitely had a real nice effect on me. Not really "high" like Phenibut but a very noticeable reduction in anxiety and even mild euphoria. That's about all I have to report. I'm very pleased with the fasoracetam and plan to buy more. Also, I've been just swallowing the caplets. I tried taking it sublingualy but it is the worst tasting substance I've ever tasted. I read somewhere that somebody compared it to how a magic marker might taste. That's a fairly good comparison but I would add that it's about 100 times stronger than what you would imagine a magic marker tastes like. It's horrible.

I've started tapering off the Kratom which I find to be pretty much painless but I've had to start over a few times because I caved to the strong cravings. With Phenibut I had zero cravings. Kratom is proving to be a little tougher as far as cravings go, but all in all it's not bad at all. So glad I've decided to taper off these things and not cold turkey. I've been through horrifying cold turkey withdrawals from alcohol, benzos, and to a lesser extent Kratom, in the past. I quit drinking alcohol 7 years ago so hopefully I'll never go through that one again. I definitely plan to stay abstinent from benzos and Phenibut as well. However, if I ever find myself hooked on anything again I will always taper. Not cold turkey. It's soooooooooo much less painful.
 
ive finally managed myself mostly off the krat etc... Wow, what a struggle the last little bit. in fact, whole body is sore right now.. I did climb a rock wall today, but still. abnormal soreness. Hopefully it gets better. agmatine, black seed, faso, NAC, vitamins all seem to help. I like a gotu kola/bacopa tincture I have. seems like things are slowly righting. I did switch to hydro for a month and tapered that - i found it much more bearable than the kratom. just a personal thing. ymmv
 
Thanks a bunch for chiming in @cdin. Congrats on getting to the point you're at. May I ask how long you were on the Kratom? I've been using for about 4 weeks. Had some success tapering the last few days. I was using upwards of 2 ounces on many days. Yesterday I dropped to 12 grams and today I'm at 8 grams. 2 days ago I used almost 2 ounces. I've been taking lots of agmatine and so far I feel just fine. In fact I feel really great today. I think I was depressed from the excessive Kratom intake. Yesterday and today that has completely gone away, which has coincided with my greatly reduced dosage. I'm beginning to really think agmatine is saving my ass from withdrawals. I've been able to taper both Phenibut and Kratom with pretty much zero withdrawal symptoms, although I still have a little ways to go with the Kratom. It's also important to point out that I did not use either substance for longer than 4 or 5 weeks before starting a taper. The Kratom doesn't freak me out as much as the Phenibut, as I've read nothing but horror stories about the Phenibut withdrawals. Sooooo very grateful I was able to get off of it so painlessly. Best of luck to all who are struggling, tapering, etc. I'm so happy to be almost free from Kratom and Phenibut.
 
Yesterday I took 8 grams of Kratom. Today I'm taking 4. Daily dose is divided into 2 doses. One in the am, and one before bed. Been taking ~4 grams of agmatine a day. I feel fine. Went from around 2 ounces a day for several weeks, to 12 grams for 1 day, then 8 grams for 1 day, and 4 grams today. I think I'll take 2 grams tomorrow. I may just jump after tomorrow. If I get some withdrawal symptoms I might take 1 gram that day. I can't really prove it, but I suspect agmatine is helping these tapers/withdrawals immensely. Last couple times I quit Kratom I didn't taper, but I I had significant withdrawal symptoms for 3-4 days. I'm sure the taper is helping this time around but I've been using for much longer than some of the other times I got off, and I've dropped from ~50 grams a day to 4 grams a day in just 3 days. No withdrawal symptoms. I'll take it. And I'll keep taking agmatine.
 
Took 2 grams of Kratom this morning. Having slight symptoms. Basically just lack of motivation. Nothing debilitating. I'll probably take 1 gram tomorrow, then be done. Sooo glad.
 
Well I blew it. The day after only taking 4 grams I woke up feeling pretty crappy. Not debilitatingly horrible, but bad enough that I knew I'd take more Kratom. What I should have done is taken a few grams to take the edge off and continue my taper. But I didn't do that. Instead I took about 25 grams throughout the course of the day. Damn it. Did pretty much the same the next day. So I started over yesterday. I took about 12 grams yesterday. Woke up with some anxiety but I continued the taper. So far I've had 7.5 grams today. Took 3 grams in the morning and by 4:00 in the afternoon I was feeling fairly blue. Again, not debilitating but def a pain in the ass. Took 4.5 grams a few minutes ago. I'll see how I feel tomorrow but I plan to take 6 grams. I think that once I stabilize around 6 grams it'll be much easier. I've been using consistently for about a month. I'll drop a gram or two every couple days this time. Last attempt was ok until I got to 4 grams. I went too fast. Lesson learned. Slow and steady from here on out. I find it a little ironic that the taper I was the most scared of, Phenibut, was the easiest. And the one I was the least worried about, Kratom, has been the most difficult. Ha! Of course.
 
Ok, good news. I had a little anxiety yesterday but not much. This morning I took 3 grams of Kratom at about 6:30 AM. It's now 9:50 PM and I haven't had to redose. I feel fine other than some slight digestive issues. I'll take 3 grams now to ward off potential withdrawal symptoms while I sleep, but after that my supply is gone. If I'm getting withdrawal symptoms tomorrow I'll buy a little more and continue the taper. I'll update in a couple days.
 
My last Phenibut habit was 3-4 months of 4G daily dosing, sometimes 6G, split into two doses daily. Ended with my in the psych ward when the acute withdrawal put me into literal psychosis. I thought the orderlies were trying to murder me and use me as a lab rat and I was convinced there were pit bulls loose in the ward they sent in to kill me. That was when i tried cold turkey. TAPER TAPER TAPER, slower the better
 
Wow @lobsterbutch. Sounds brutal. I'm so very glad I decided to taper. It was virtually painless. For all those who would like to know how I tapered off Phenibut with zero withdrawal symptoms, here is what I did....

Even though I was taking doses as high as 10 grams (only did that once) I stabilized at 3 grams for about 5 days I think. From there I dropped 300 mg (I had tablets that were 300 mg each) every 3 days. Daily dose was divided into 2 doses a day; one in the morning when I got up and 1 around 6:00 pm. I kept the 2 daily doses as close to equivalent as I could, but when I had to take more for one of the doses because of the reductions I would take the heavier dose at night. My thought was that would maybe help with sleep. I had zero withdrawal symptoms. I had been using daily for about 5 weeks when I started my taper. I was taking 1 gram of agmatine with each individual dose, as well as magnesium glycinate, fish oil, hydroxyzine, and Lexapro. I believe the agmatine made a huge difference. Huge.

BTW I'm off the Kratom again. Once I stabilized at 6 grams for 3 days (I was taking close to 2 ounces on many days) it was painless after that. I basically took 3 gems the next 2 days and just quit. I dropped straight to 6 grams at the start and had some mild withdrawals fir about 2 days. They were very tolerable though. Again, I believe my 3-4 grams of daily agmatine made a huge difference. It seems to really help a taper along quite well.
 
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Best things for the Phenibut Withdrawal Nightmare

I've been thru the phenibut withdrawal nightmare 3 times. I'm currently wrapping up #3 as we speak. The first time it took me 2 weeks to feel normal, it was about a month to say I was over it. I had a year plus habit. I was taking about 4 grams a day and thought I was in the clear because there were a few times throughout that year of phenibut abuse I took a few days off and never had horrible wds. I honestly thought that it wasn't that bad. Boy was I wrong. It takes a good 3 days to get the full withdrawal of that asshole of a drug. My life was hell. I have a full time job and had to live that nightmare. I made it through the first trip with l theanine, which really helped, maybe it was a placebo effect but it helped, that and kava kava from phytoextractum, get the good stuff really made it easier on me. This was no easy task though. I lived and so will you. After a month of clarity and having beaten the wds once, we were headed on vacation so I thought well I have beat phenibut what will a couple grams on vacation hurt? This was the begging of my 2nd dance with the devil. I took it for 4 more months strsight nit looking back. I was taking 7 grams a day. I never can explain why I would do some thing so stupid after beating the wds the first time. I knew I had to stop and began round 2. This was hell...... One beauty of a substance called BETA ALANINE and kava helped me immensely at night. I would try and suffer all day knowing I had beta and kava at night. You can get beta alanine at gnc or vitamim shoppe or any of those places. This time sucked worse than the first but it would end, it took me over a month this time to heal. Phenibut is odd. You can quit for months and months ,then relapse just for a week and have full on wds like you never stopped. There is no going back to normal or resetting. The third time I went through this shit was recently. Again I thought I could handle taking it for a few days.NOT! I took it off and on for over a month. I really only took about 30 grams over a month and had close to 5 days off thru out the month. I quit and sure as hell was back to square one. This time I had FASORACETAM! !!!! It worked miracles. Idk if it's the same for everyone else but it was amazing for me. I used that with Kava for 10 days straight and feel great today. Please friends don't abuse phenibut. It's bad bews. If you can control it like any other med it deserves respect it can be beautiful, but abuse it and you'll be sorry. I was lucky. The 4 months that I took 7 grams a day for was something I suffered thru but not like some horrors stories from the web. People lose control, have seizures, and some times even worse.Don't be a dumbass like me !!!!! FASORACETAM was a god send
 
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