Stimulants Pharmaceutical Racemic Amphetamine Thread (1:1 d,l; Evekeo; Benzedrine)

[nealcassady]

Pharmaceutical Amphetamine Sulphate (1:1 dl-amp, Evekeo)

Thread for compiling information and experience with pharmaceutical 1:1 dl-amphetamine, known as amphetamine sulphate, and commonly referred to as racemic amphetamine.

As far as the United States is concerned, it is now "back" on the market with the brand name Evekeo. How do international countries fare when it comes to the (non-street) availability of amphetamine sulphate?

I have recently got prescribed Evekeo (amphetamine sulphate, 10mg) and am hoping to compile simple feedback in this thread as I go along. But my intention is to welcome anyone possessing or seeking information about pharmaceutical amphetamine sulphate; experiences, neurological effects, etc. I'm also assuming most people would also be interested in simple A/B comparisons between Evekeo and Adderall - those kinds of topics.

How about daily intake of d-amp vs dl-amp? As Evekeo has been available for less than 6 months, none of us have "grown up" on it like some have with Ritalin and Adderall. I'm somewhat curious to hypothesize how Evekeo will fair when it comes to long term effects.

Evekeo is available for prescription to young kids as well as adults, as far as ADHD is concerned. It is also indicated short term for weight loss, booklet says 2 weeks max. I don't think (could be wrong) we've seen an amphetamine available for weight loss since the 1960's, short term or not. This is not an off-label indication either, it's plainly listed in the fold out booklet that accompanies the 'welcome packet' you get from the doctor.

I'm also interested in compiling links for the Evekeo trials that occurred prior to its nationwide release - I'd be interested in reading those. Are these types of studies generally published online? As far as direct Evekeo feedback is concerned, there isn't too much on the web at the moment. It's only been mentioned in two threads here at BL, but not by someone who has taken it yet. I'll leave my personal input in a separate reply.

 

[nealcassady]

I wanted to highlight this quote bc I would like to touch on the topic of effectiveness as well. In one of the two threads that so far have mentioned Evekeo, this caught my eye:

This is actually playground rumor more than anything: levo amphetamine is still only 10% as effective as dextro amphetamine at releasing norepinephrine. That is to say, it's inactive filler, rather than a cause of side effects. Racemic amphetamine is actually more effective than you'd expect.

Dextroamphetamine will still make you sweaty, twitchy, elevate blood pressure etc.

Evekeo is available in 5mg and 10mg form. And from what I have gathered, will usually be indicated to be taken twice a day. I am scripted 10mg twice a day. It's been a couple years since I've had Adderall, so unfortunatly I'll have to go by memory when it comes to comparing those two. I did just come off of Vyvanse and am now taking Evekeo instead. I'm one of the few that seem to get a heavy side-effect profile of Vyvanse and thus far, am benefiting more (recreationally and on a professional level) from the Evekeo.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Racemic amphetamines were also available under the name bi-phetamine, or sold as black beauties in the late 60s through early 80s.

How does the evekeo compare to adderall? Or are they basically the same?

 

[sekio]

Are these instant release or extended release?

I suspect the reason Evekeo appeared on the market now and not earlier is because of Vyvanase falling off of patent - now there's no patented medication that ensures doctors/pharmacists can get paid.

On paper, racemic amphetamine should be about ~80% the potency of Adderall, which is ~80% as potent as Dexedrine. It's possible that it's a "smoother" experience simply because you can have finer control over the dosage.

 

[nealcassady]

Evekeo seems to only be available as instant release. They are chalky soft blue circle pills that look very much like the blue instant release Adderalls I used to take years back. It's interesting about the Vyvanse patent. I started telling my Dr that I am getting negative results from the Vyvanse, she brought up the name Evekeo and handed me the pamphlet - I had never heard of it prior.

It's on the market as a first month free trial, I'm sure my insurance is not aware of the medicine nor will they cover it next month. I'm curious to know how the pricing compares to Vyvanse in terms of Evekeo's attempts to potentially switch a lot of Vyvanse patients over to Evekeo. Hopefully it's cheaper.

It's possible that it's a "smoother" experience simply because you can have finer control over the dosage.

It is pretty smooth overall. I do like how Evekeo is basically active at 5mg for most people. Since they pills are dividable, it definitely makes for a more controllable experience in comparison with me needing to start out with 30mg Vyvanse in order to benefit from it.

With the additional presence of l-amp and Vyvanse's slow digestion of lisdex, I've always enjoyed IR Adderall over Vyvanse. I don't get too much negative physical effects from the l-amp, and in fact as far as I can tell, I much prefer a racemic mixture over the prodrug d-amp mechanism of Vyvanse. I've never tried Dexedrine/Zenzedi.

It feels almost similar, dosage wise, to Adderall. It was over 5 years back that I used to enjoy Adderall but I do know that I would stay in the 30mg range, and would dose every 8 hours if I wanted to keep it going. In single doses, I've tried the Evekeo at 10mg all the way up to 50mg. Now, my receptors are fairly beat over the years, and I don't nearly as much euphoria as I used to, so I didn't see much benefit from going that high with the Evekeo. It only slightly increased the side-effects and greatly increased the amount of time I stayed awake. I experienced that non-social, neutral emotion yet wide awake kind of feeling. It didn't seem to increase any of the positive effects I'm after. Going forward for myself, I'm going to keep it around where it was prescribed, probably never straying above 20mg in a single dose.

Effects wise, it's probably fairly comparable to Adderall. Those with access to both brands could probably compare the two better than I can. I'm not sure if my drop in euphoria from amphetamines is linked to depleted receptors from years of abuse, or because I need to just take Adderall again, but I'm willing to assume it's the former.

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

So if I understand this correctly:

Evekeo: 50% D-Amphetamine Sulfate + 50% L-Amphetamine Sulfate
Dexedrine: 100% D-Amphetamine Sulfate
Adderall: 25% D/L-amphetamine aspartate + 25% D/L-amphetamine sulfate + 25% D-amphetamine saccharate + 25% D-amphetamine sulfate

So 10mg dexedrine = 5mg evekeo = ___mg adderall (approximately)?


Adderall = 37.5% D-amphetamine sulfate + 12.5% L-amphetamine sulfate?
Adderall = 25% evekeo + 25% dexedrine + 50% amp aspartate & saccharate?

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I like the ratio of Adderall, which is 75& d-amphetamine and 25% l-amphetamine, IIRC?

 

[Kittycat5]

Are these instant release or extended release?

I suspect the reason Evekeo appeared on the market now and not earlier is because of Vyvanase falling off of patent - now there's no patented medication that ensures doctors/pharmacists can get paid.

Explain getting paid. Are you simply refering to it being branded and hence doctors can still be on the payroll of the drug companies and the cost is a larger sale to the pharmacy? I cannot speak for prescribers, but the days of free trips to Hawaii for top prescribers are over. Pharma has other tricks though, but straight kickbacks are done.

Pharmacies would rather dispense generic Adderall any day as while the sale is lower the profit is more and inventory less. Vyvanse still has no generic competition but it is coming fairly soon and there is a new branded d-amp called Zenzedi.

There is an XR version of plain amphetamine that is new as well called Dyanavel XR. It is a liquid suspension I imagine like Quillivent. There was also a new mixed amphetamine salt XR just approved called Adzenys that is an orally disintergrating tablet.

 

[sudowoodo]

Personally, I enjoy the l isomer for the party setting, so I am a big fan of amphetamine sulfate. G

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

Vyvanse still has no generic competition but it is coming fairly soon and there is a new branded d-amp called Zenzedi.

So Zenzedi is D-amphetamine sulfate in 2.5mg, 5mg, 7.5mg, 10mg, 12.5mg, 15mg, 20mg and 30mg strengths. It's just a new brand of Dexedrine available in a wider range of IR strengths? How are drug companies able to make brand names of old drugs with slightly different strengths and receive patents? Seems ridiculous to me.

Dyanavel XR is a liquid version of 3.2 to 1 ratio of d-amphetamine sulfate to l-amphetamine sulfate? So it's slightly weaker than Adderall XR which is a 4 to 1 ratio? How many versions of the same drug with slightly different doses is the FDA going to allow? At this point the number of amphetamine based stimulants all indicated for ADD/ADHD, narcolepsy and obesity is just plain absurd.

What's next a brand name version of racemic amphetamine saccharate and a brand name version of d-amphetamine saccharate? And then a new brand name version of the same chemical as those but in various strengths, an XR version and a liquid version?

 

[electric moon]

op I like the screen name. I almost changed mine to Sal Paradise to see if youd notice.

Ok, so you say amphetamine sulphate is d/l-amphetamine. Is that like a dextro/levo combination. How does that differ from Adderall having plain dextro and plain levo? Ive heard my dad talk about amp sulphate from back in the 60s and 70s but this is the first ive heard of it being around.

 

[Sprout]

The sulphate is simply the salt complex of whichever Amphetamine enantiomer is applicable.
Racemic Amphet is the stimulant street drug of choice in the UK and most of Europe and is a 50:50 mix of D-Amp Sulphate and L-Amp Sulphate.

 

[electric moon]

I see. So what is the difference between this and Adderall, other than the ratios of dex and levo?

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

I see. So what is the difference between this and Adderall, other than the ratios of dex and levo?

Adderall: 25% D/L-amphetamine aspartate + 25% D/L-amphetamine sulfate + 25% D-amphetamine saccharate + 25% D-amphetamine sulfate

So Adderall has 37.5% d-amp sulfate and 12.5% l-amp sulfate plus 25% amp aspartate and 25% d-amp saccharate.

The sulphate is simply the salt complex of whichever Amphetamine enantiomer is applicable.
Racemic Amphet is the stimulant street drug of choice in the UK and most of Europe and is a 50:50 mix of D-Amp Sulphate and L-Amp Sulphate.

Do you think Evekeo (racemic amphetamine sulfate) is more euphoric than Adderall? Why is it so preferred in Europe compared with Adderall? I just got an Rx for Evekeo and am wondering how it's going to feel in comparison with Adderall or Dexedrine. Benzedrine (Kerouac's drug) was Evekeo, if i'm not mistaken. I never particularly liked Adderall because with too high of a dose I get sweaty/anxious. Hopefully Evekeo is smoother and boosts my mood better than Adderall. I'm curious as to the subtle differences in effects of amphetamine sulfate compared with Adderall's mix of sulfate, saccharate and aspartate. Has any drug company produced a version of amphetamine saccharate or amphetamine aspartate alone? If so, how do those amphetamine salts differ in effect from amphetamine sulfate?

 

[nasir~]

Adderall: 25% D/L-amphetamine aspartate + 25% D/L-amphetamine sulfate + 25% D-amphetamine saccharate + 25% D-amphetamine sulfate

So Adderall has 37.5% d-amp sulfate and 12.5% l-amp sulfate plus 25% amp aspartate and 25% d-amp saccharate.



Do you think Evekeo (racemic amphetamine sulfate) is more euphoric than Adderall? Why is it so preferred in Europe compared with Adderall? I just got an Rx for Evekeo and am wondering how it's going to feel in comparison with Adderall or Dexedrine. Benzedrine (Kerouac's drug) was Evekeo, if i'm not mistaken. I never particularly liked Adderall because with too high of a dose I get sweaty/anxious. Hopefully Evekeo is smoother and boosts my mood better than Adderall.

It is not really preferred, it's basically the only form of amphetamine that has been widely available in most parts of europe.
Producing racemic amphetamine is a lot more economic than producing/seperating one isomer.(we're talking about street product here)
Speaking about pharmaceutical amphetamines, Adderall is not available in europe.

I'm curious as to the subtle differences in effects of amphetamine sulfate compared with Adderall's mix of sulfate, saccharate and aspartate. Has any drug company produced a version of amphetamine saccharate or amphetamine aspartate alone? If so, how do those amphetamine salts differ in effect from amphetamine sulfate?

Sulfate and saccharate should only(if at all) differ in absorbtion/bioavailability.
The “real“ difference (well, actually It's marginale) is the ratio of dextro- to levo-isomer.

 

[electric moon]

Man I didn't know amphetamines were this confusing. So what is the difference between sulfate, saccharate and aspartate?When you say d/l are you saying dextro and levo in one molecule?

 

[Kittycat5]

As far as the patents, it is quite ridiculous. They normally only get 3 or 5 years when doing it like this but still drives up costs for no reason.

 

[InterestingFACT]

This is why we need single payer. That, or medical patent law reform. Process patents are just absurd.

Frankly, we should just go back to the compounding pharmacy style: have every pharmacist keep gallons of racemic and dextro- amphetamine base, and just salt it out as a sulphate or sacharate in whatever ratio pleases the prescribing Doctor. Even "more complex" drugs like Vyvanse are ludicrously simple to compound on the spot--it's a one-pot high yielding reaction from amphetamine base and lysine.

If we actually want to make progress in developing drugs in this area, pharmaceutical companies should start developing new drugs again. It's ludicrous how many diverse stimulants either came to market or saw significant pre-market development in the 60s and 70s, when the only ones out there anymore are amphetamine and methylphenidate.

 

[Kittycat5]

Compounding would actually these days purchasing lisdexamphetamine powder and then putting it into capsules. But imagine a Walgreens that fills 500 rxs a day having to compound each one. There would be a two week wait.

Agree about single payer but small molecules are not the future for pharma. Its all biologics now.