• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

Permenant Brain Changes/Rewiring of Brain by psychedelic drugs

M

Magickduck

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
405
So, do any of you think that there is a chance of permanent brain changes - I will not call it damage as I suppose it could be beneficial - from the use of psychedelic drugs?

Ok - what about not just from the use, but the abuse and over-use of them?

OK - What about not permanent but long-lasting?

What about during the brains initial development - before 25?

I know these are all controversial questions that we don't have the factual answers to, and people consensous on many of these is either based on myth or denial, in my eyes (as in, NO THEY CAN'T BE BAD FOR YOU AS PSYCHEDELICS ARE ONLY GOOD THINGS, or on the other end OF COURSE THEY DO BRAIN DAMAGE THEY ARE ILLEGAL DRUGS)... so I was wondering, what do you guys think?
What about with the different chemicals... organic ones such as psilocybin or mescaline? What about LSD? What about some of the 2C Series? And even some of the newer ones?

=

Personally, I think that yes, there are permanent brain changes, at least in my case during my brain developing from the age of 15-20. I do not know if this was because of my age and my brain, or just the chemicals themselves. I cannot say for sure which did which, but I can say that after 2c-i I had HPPD and constant shifting and persian rug-type visuals... after about 6 months that went away. I ate alot of cactus, and that seemed to do me no harm whatsoever. Then I took a ton of LSD (a few hits every couple days for about 3 months) and honestly that did me alot of temporary (i hope) damage. I constantly feel like I am on a low dose of LSD ~75ug. It is not bad and I enjoy my life, possibly even more than people who do not feel like they are on LSD all the time... lol.... sometimes it gets dark though, i just came out of a scary period. I don't have schizophrenia, as I am able to work, interact, do anything as a normal person could. I am fairly intelligent and work a good job, so it hasn't interfered with my life very much other than the dark and intense period I went through. During that time I had many telepathic experiences, many things similar to on LSD, my mind would work in instant-metaphor mode as it does on LSD if you know what I mean, unrelated things bringing up perfect metaphors to teach me that I never would notice otherwise... then these metaphors during my bad-trip-period got dark and scary... I am fine now though but yeah...

Also, the visuals and the headspace seems to get better for about a week each time I take a low dose of mushrooms. This makes me think its a possible downregulation of some of my serotonin receptors or something.

I am doing much better now and it seems to be getting better with time, but since I grew up like this, I am sure I will have a psychedelic touch for the rest of my life :D
 
I want to learn more about your "HPPD." How did your "HPPD" and the Iranian throw-rug visuals keep you from socializing, work, school, etc?
 
morninggloryseed said:
I want to learn more about your "HPPD." How did your "HPPD" and the Iranian throw-rug visuals keep you from socializing, work, school, etc?
Click to expand...

For a while I was quite disabled, stayed inside just hanging with my girl and healing. I am better now, but it did disable me for a bit... not just the visuals but the mental effects too. I wouldn't call it HPPD per say or anything really, it was my specific reaction and others have had similar ones.. I know many personally and have connected with some via the internet.

but alas, I have gotton used to it and yea...
 
Personally, I think that yes, there are permanent brain changes,
Click to expand...

Changing our minds permanently is the point. As far as lingering visual phenomena, anecdotal evidence suggests it is more common after use of phenethylamines (esp. 2C-x) than tryptamines.

On a related note, looking at TV static the other day, I noticed prominent CEV-like swirling patterns in it. I asked the person who was with me what they saw and they described seeing straight lines like rain fall.
 
Never Knows Best said:
Changing our minds permanently is the point. As far as lingering visual phenomena, anecdotal evidence suggests it is more common after use of phenethylamines (esp. 2C-x) than tryptamines.

On a related note, looking at TV static the other day, I noticed prominent CEV-like swirling patterns in it. I asked the person who was with me what they saw and they described seeing straight lines like rain fall.
Click to expand...
well yeah, of course, I mean more like physical brain chemical changes.
 
^Is there a difference? I for one think that the hard problem of consciousness will one day be overcome.
 
yes there is a difference the mind and our conscoiusness and our thought process and our chemical systems in our brain that are independant of that
 
t is not bad and I enjoy my life, possibly even more than people who do not feel like they are on LSD all the time... lol.... sometimes it gets dark though, i just came out of a scary period. I don't have schizophrenia, as I am able to work, interact, do anything as a normal person could. I am fairly intelligent and work a good job, so it hasn't interfered with my life very much other than the dark and intense period I went through.
Click to expand...

So which one is it?
 
That amount you mentioned doesnt seem like a lot to me,or a long duration. I have been around some folls who were surely rewired, as was i after my very first time with ALICE. Now being on the other side of that i wouldnt want it any other way. No I DONT?:)
 
Every time we learn something new our brains change, so no drugs are required to make permanent changes, though some drugs may artificially induce especially substantial changes. The issue is whether these changes are problematic, neutral, or beneficial.

One major mechanism of neural plasticity and learning is long-term potentiation, which strengthens the connection between neurons after a period of high-frequency signaling. Drugs that cause such periods of high-frequency firing can induce LTP between neurons they act on, which is probably part of why HPPD sometimes occurs after using psychedelics for some people. Chronic use of many different psychoactive drugs will cause changes, via LTP and other mechanisms. The more time that is spent with a drug in one's system, the more the brain will change to accommodate its presence, which makes this especially relevant to anybody who is prescribed a psychiatric drug.

I personally have been sampling from a wide range of 5-HT psychedelics approximately once every three weeks or so for well over a decade and I do not have HPPD, though I don't doubt there have been some neurophysiological changes from "what would have been otherwise." If you experience HPPD after just a few times tripping you should probably stick to occasional use or not use at all. Cognitive tests of Native Americans who use mescaline cacti weekly in religious practice for many years indicate no deficits of intelligence relative to average and, if I recall correctly, above-average emotional well-being (though this could have partially or wholly to do with the emotional benefits of belonging to the close social group they use mescaline with). Not all 5-HT psychedelics work the same way, so such findings may or may not generalize to other psychedelics.
 
morninggloryseed said:
So which one is it?
Click to expand...

I wish you'd actually read what I say.

That amount you mentioned doesnt seem like a lot to me,or a long duration. I have been around some folls who were surely rewired, as was i after my very first time with ALICE. Now being on the other side of that i wouldnt want it any other way. No I DONT?:)
Click to expand...
those are just the binges, I've been pretty nonstop using psychedelics since being very young (15) until now, being 21. I use very occasionally now, and only things such as mushrooms and cactus - in a low dose. I find these just medicine but most of these chemicals - even LSD, heck, ESPECIALLY LSD - to be far too powerful on certain receptor sites or SOMETHING and kind of makes my brain out of wack rather than fine tuning it.



to psuedonym: some people are prone to it, others not. I personally think for me, its got something to do with the age I was and the frequency of use - my brain developing on psychedelics pretty much.
 
"During that time I had many telepathic experiences"
"I don't have schizophrenia"

Those two statement may contradict each other. When you say things like that it is evidence of magical thinking. I said in the other thread i think you have mental illness based on your posts, and you aren't changing my mind. OP most of your threads are about about the downside of these chemicals. Maybe these drugs just are not for you. At the very least this could be just one thread.
 
my3rdeye said:
"During that time I had many telepathic experiences"
"I don't have schizophrenia"

Those two statement may contradict each other. When you say things like that it is evidence of magical thinking. I said in the other thread i think you have mental illness based on your posts, and you aren't changing my mind. OP most of your threads are about about the downside of these chemicals. Maybe these drugs just are not for you. At the very least this could be just one thread.
Click to expand...

I guess the things both of us believe possible are different. By the way, these were shared experiences among a group of people, on multiple occasions. Since your username is my3rdeye, can I ask you where the line is between possible and delusion may be?

I certainly had these experiances, they were very real, and they were shared among medium-sized groups of people. Most of the time on psychedelic drugs, many other times while sober. And not the occasional flare, full on evolution to telepathy for 12 hours between us all, etc..
If I told you some of my other experiances, you'd think I was batshit insane... check out the post about what happened to me at the burn in the Synchronicity thread in P&S.

I'd also suggest that you mayhaps watch the video "Schizophrenic or shamanic?" by Terrance McKenna.


These threads are about some of the darker parts of psychedelic drugs, but I love them and they have an equal if not greater bright side, however there are tons of threads on that, I figured I'd start some discussions on some of the issues I have had in my long history with them to get some people thinking. as I feel that many will agree with some of the things I have said, eventually.
 
Last edited:
I've read ever word.You are full of contradictions and seemingly confused. One post you have "HPPD" another don't. One post you say this , one you say that. Maybe you are just a man of mystery, or yin and yang. Don't know what you are but I'm free to ask, right? ;)
 
There is no such thing as something permanent in the brain. It is an ever-evolving organ that literally changes all the time to a varying degree on various different levels of which cellular level is only one. Subjective experience of reality is changing all the time too as you keep learning new things and forming new memories every single moment. Now, to attribute meaning to these changes in the brain is the tricky part. What exactly is good/beneficial and what exactly is bad/harmful? Can certain mind states / brain wirings be considered either good or bad depending on the circumstances and challenges one faces in life? Who knows, I 'd say.

I think psychedelics can make long lasting changes in the brain with more ease than many other things/experiences. It is possible to direct these changes according to ones will just as it is possible to just let them wreak random havoc in the brain creating maladaptions here and there.
 
Psychadelics always rewire the brain after every usage. There are other things that can "rewire" the brain, however psychadelics have very powerful effects on the brain's "wiring". From your posts it sounds as if you were using them quite recklessly for a while (e.g. taking acid every couple of days for a few months and saying that you are a lot of cactus), I think that you know that you were tripping too much and too frequently during that time. As far as 2c-i causing lasting effects, the 2c's are supposedly known for bringing out HPPD, flashbacks, and other types of tripping without having taken anything. The fact that you feel like you are on 75 mics of acid all the time is not something that a casual user would experience, but you have just over-used LSD and caused some major changes to your brain/mind. I have only tripped 12 times, but I sometimes have minor HPPD type experiences like things moving a bit, etc. I don't feel like I am on anything, but I can see where if someone were to use psychadelics a lot that they could end up in that state permanently. As far as the telepathic experiences being a sign of schizophrenia, having telepathic experiences in itself does not make one schizophrenic. I actually have had telepathic and other psychic experiences far before I ever touched a drug. Even as a little kid, I noticed that I could occasionally read minds and would sometimes be able to predict the future through my dreams and even during my waking life. I have also had other mystical types of experiences as a kid and long before I touched drugs (out of body experiences, seeing ghosts, feelings of telepathically communing with higher powers and beings, etc.) and I'm not crazy so I doubt you are either. I also function in society very well and go to college and do very well in my classes and have plenty of friends, so I don't see how I could even possibly be crazy
 
No, psychedelics don't rewire the brain in any way whatsoever. Some people arn't suited to them and those people shouldn't take them. Like everything - some people go running for the first time and damage their ankle. They should avoid running and do something else.

Progress through your life with intelligence and dilligence.
 
I have done a FUCK TON of hallucinogens (psychedelics) DMT, PCP, DXM, LSD-25, etc. and I can say that it has made me become paranoid, not like a "theres aliens controlling my brain" type paranoid, but more of a "these people are examining everything Im doing and theyre laughing at me" type paranoia. I dont know if thats due to tha hallucinogen use or if its an underlying condition, but I didnt notice it until I quit using tha psychedelics all together... Just my 2 cents.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top