Permatrip

[Yeetbeat]

This is just utter bullshit. Can anyone actually back this up besides "I knew this guy it happened to, though I didn't actually evaluate him medically or have knowledge of any other factors"?

That's what I thought.

Anyone who outright denies a substance's ability to cause damage in a high enough dose is more deluded than those this thread is discussing.

 

[Doldrugs]

Anyone who outright denies a substance's ability to cause damage in a high enough dose is more deluded than those this thread is discussing.

I'm asking for sources. Please undelude me and provide evidence that LSD can cause brain damage. Just stating I'm wrong with nothing to back it up is wasting both our time.

 

[Peacephrog1972]

probably cause the neurological system is pretty much a guessing game...its not like cardiac or renal systems where we know exactly what is happening down to the molecular level

we know a bit about the brain, but there are a lot of assumptions, and a lot of guesses.....it is a very inexact science.......so of course there is no "proof"...and there may never be any

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

Brain damage is very specific and can be detected quite easily; it is the degeneration of brain cells, which LSD has not been shown to cause.

 

[Peacephrog1972]

out of curiosity, are you in fact a neurologist?

 

[Peacephrog1972]

id much like to see the studies done on brain tissue of people that have taken LSD that quantify that there has been no degradation of cells

 

[Peacephrog1972]

but further, is "damage" just the destruction of cells?? could it not be classified as possible alteration of such said cells???

 

[sailor bugg]

I think I remember reading something on erowid that one of the only overdoses on LSD was from a test during project MKULTRA where someone was dosed with 142mg of LSD intravenously.

 

[Yeetbeat]

I'm talking a huge single dose, not long term damage. I'm more or less on your side regarding that part (it doesn't cause it), but any foreign substance would cause damage, at least indirect due to displacing enough vital elements (similarly to drinking far too much water). That's what I'm getting at. Think grams of the stuff injected as close to the brain as possible. Obviously well beyond any logical ingestion.

 

[TurkeyRanch]

Even the guy who now thinks he's a glass of orange juice and is scared he'll "spill"?

Come on, we both know that is some of the oldest LSD propaganda in the book, and it's unbecoming of you to use it as a barb against someone who is for all intents and purposes "on your side".

i have no sources, aside from what I know to be true, from life. Make of that what you will.

But, eating a quarter gram of L will certainly traumatize or change a person to a point where they are on a "permatrip" or psychotic, however you choose to label it. You people sitting at home, ordering drugs online, getting high, I commend you. Your contributing endless data points for the common good, science, and the evolution of understanding that is this journey of man and psychedelic molecules. But your viewpoint is limited by nature, maybe get out more?

Orange juice boy is bullshit. The girl I know who's psychotic nutsoid boyfriend fed her .2 grams of crystal for stealing 5 grams from him, and kept her drooling shell around for two years is real. Believe me or not.




To answer the the original question to the best of my experience and ability : Yes, too much LSD can hurt some people's brains, either by physiological action, or traumatic experience (who knows). Some people may be more resilient to the psychological aspects of a truly massive dose, and others less so. But the amount required to do so for healthy minded people is very high, making it almost impossible for 99% of people to access these amounts.

Sorry to to cause a ruckus.

Respectfully,
TR

 

[Ismene]

Why do you think it causes permanent damage tho TurkeyR? I can understand you being traumatised for the period that you're high if you've taken a massive dose - but once the LSD has gone, what damage do you think it's done?

And remember - you don't just keep tripping harder and harder the more you take. You only have so many brain receptors. Once they're all occupied the LSD just floats around your bloodstream until it's inactivated and pissed out of your body.

 

[Sprout]

Does HPPD count?
The MAOi activity of some psyches could lead to permanent damage independent of psychedelic activity - Serotonergic toxicity and resultant hyperthermia could very easily result in neurotoxicity.

Demonstrable, irreversible, scientifically validated neurological damage sustained as a result of exposure to a psychedelic, with all other factors controlled, for is very different from anecdotal reports of damage that is biological, neurological in origin without evidence or multifactorial control.

Also, psychological trauma is well known to alter a person, be it from witnessing a murder to an incredibly negative mental experience from psychedelic exposure, but it is psychological change, not physiological like the phrase 'brain fried' would suggest.

 

[CosmicG]

If psychedelics are incapable of physically altering the brain by way of changing the way it processes thought and images, then what is HPPD? High dose trips or tripping too frequently absolutely will change a person psychologically without question. Whether or not the change occurs physiologically as well has yet to be proven. But then what do we make of persisting perception transformations?

 

[wheaters]

I feel a lot of these stories are combined over time and then passed on as mere myths.

 

[DubNaut]

i think it more as a 'traumatic' event defined as an intense experience leaving a strong residual perspective alteration ..

signed witness, and DO$E MONEY, hop om tour bruh

you are ignorant to think an innocent attendee dosed unknowingly with a strong tryptamine or seam ripping drug, is going to casually for the most part handle the experience and know nothing lasts and but nothing is lost

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Given that, it would seem like there probably is something other than the people simply being "traumatized by a bad experience".

Why? PTSD is persistent and there are observable neurobiological effects which accompany it, so why couldn't it be attributed to a bad experience?

 

[jammin83]

I don't have a whole lot to add really but I have encountered some people that have definitely gone off the deep end with L and they most certainly have a 'unique' character to them. Perma fried or not.

You can not detect all types of brain damage. There are people that are permanently affected from psych drugs. People that experience horrendous withdrawal for years at a time. Many of these people get all types of scans and tests done and the doctors can't find anything wrong with them. Being one of these people myself, I can assure you there is damage done.

There is a lot we don't know understand about the brain. It's a bit arrogant to assume that we know for sure that there isn't any damage done.

 

[SteamboatBillJr]

There are people that are permanently affected from psych drugs. People that experience horrendous withdrawal for years at a time. Many of these people get all types of scans and tests done and the doctors can't find anything wrong with them. Being one of these people myself, I can assure you there is damage done.

Statistically, psychedelic users report experiencing mental illness slightly less than non-psychedelic users. You shouldn't blame your per-existing mental illness on psychedelics. Non-psychedelic users also experience mental illness and hallucinations.

The Truth About Psychedelic Drugs and Mental Illness

We failed to find any associations between lifetime use of psychedelics and past year serious psychological distress, receiving or needing mental health treatment, depression, anxiety, or suicidal thoughts or behavior in the past year. Rather, lifetime use of psychedelics was associated with decreased inpatient psychiatric treatment.

http://www.emmasofia.org/wp-content...alth-problems-or-suicidal-behavior.pdf?115a76

Consistent with hypotheses, lifetime classic psychedelic use was associated with a 19% reduced likelihood of past month psychological distress, a 14% reduced likelihood of past year suicidal thinking, a 29% reduced likelihood of past year suicidal planning, and a 36% reduced likelihood of past year suicide attempt. [...] By contrast, lifetime illicit use of all other substances was by and large associated with an increased likelihood of psychological distress and suicidality at or above the trend level.

https://cogumelosmagicos.org/comuni...ol-2015-hendricks-0269881114565653-pdf.76931/

 

[CosmicG]

The fact of the matter is, too many psychedelics will eventually break any human being. EVERYONE has the potential to develop some form of mental illness, whether it be from trauma or a condition that a particular individual was already predisposed to. Jammin did not mention having any pre-existing mental illnesses before drugs, and whether Jammin did have a pre-existing condition that he was aware of or not does not matter. Drugs have the potential to damage any living being.

 

[jammin83]

Statistically, psychedelic users report experiencing mental illness slightly less than non-psychedelic users. You shouldn't blame your per-existing mental illness on psychedelics. Non-psychedelic users also experience mental illness and hallucinations.

The Truth About Psychedelic Drugs and Mental Illness




http://www.emmasofia.org/wp-content...alth-problems-or-suicidal-behavior.pdf?115a76



https://cogumelosmagicos.org/comuni...ol-2015-hendricks-0269881114565653-pdf.76931/

You shouldn't be so quick to make assumptions. No worries, i'm not talking shit about your psychedelic parade.

I was referring to psychiatric drugs not psychedelic drugs, i should have clarified.

I don't blame my mental illness on anything. I do blame how I have been feeling for more than a year on psychiatric drugs though.

My point was that people can be damaged by drugs that aren't detected by MRI, CT, PET scans, etc.

Changes in chemistry don't necessarily equate to dead brain cells, but these changes aren't something somebody wants to experience.

I am sure there are psychedelic drugs that have damaged people aside from dead brain cells, and yes, even LSD.