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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Harm Reduction Peoples thoughts on injecting less experienced users

The high from injecting it only last 20 minutes. The rush will last about 5 minutes.
It's not worth it just snort a fat ass line. Or smoke a fat ass bowl.
 
The high from injecting it only last 20 minutes. The rush will last about 5 minutes.
It's not worth it just snort a fat ass line. Or smoke a fat ass bowl.

Uhh, what?

Shooting up doesn't cause a drug to only last 20 minutes unless it normally lasts a very short amount of time anyway.

The rush is short yes, but the high is a similar length of time to other routes. Maybe a little shorter, but not much.

When I was shooting heroin every day the high would generally last at least 4-5 hours. Then feeling generally good for another 4-7. Then withdrawal.

I've shot up meth too and it certainly doesn't last 20 minutes either.
 
You don't have to blame them for them to blame themselves.

Don't get me wrong here, I get your point and I think it has merit.

Ughhh. Honestly a part of me thinks you have a point I can't rationally argue against. But personally I still wouldn't feel comfortable shooting someone up for their first time. It's not so much about blame. But that I just wouldn't wanna be involved in someone starting along a path that's so likely to end in all the mayhem and destruction I've seen.

I'm having trouble deciding now too.
I totally get what you're saying too. It's such an iffy topic. Oh mean said person who wants to inject could get themselves into a worse situation trying to find someone else to inject them. You just never know.
 
Regarding blame, some people really will blame themselves even if they had a small part or next to no part in your path to addiction. I had a mate who felt guilty because he talked to me about oxy and hyped it up from his days of being hooked on it, but I met him after he quit and he never even so much as gave me a single pill, he was guilty simply for talking about it and me later on buying some elsewhere and getting myself hooked on it.

I told him this is stupid logic, I was already getting into drugs and I already had used weaker opiates, does he really not think I'd have found out what oxycodone is on my own? And quite obviously if I made the choice to find out more about oxy, find a source, and buy it knowing full well it's addictive, that's on me. I never blamed anyone else for my stupid actions.

But yeah people just feel guilty irrationally a lot of the time. They know how bad addiction is and feel guilty if they think they pushed someone onto it, even if their role was in reality a minor one.

As for IV specifically it is a tricky topic. Not an IV user myself but obviously am aware of the HR implications. I see good points on both sides here where: on one hand it's bad to introduce someone to this ROA, but on the other hand if they're intent on doing it anyway you want to be sure they do it as safely as possible. I think the big differentiator is are they asking you about it already (and therefore intent on doing it) or are they happy using other ROA's when you bring it up? I think most would agree the latter scenario is immoral, whereas the former is a grey area.

Very tricky situation though for sure. Where someone has already developed a curiosity there's good arguments on both sides.
 
I’m with you man.

Of course there’s the old line ‘well they’re going to do it any way, at least I can assist in keeping them safe’

It’s a lie that addiction tells us.
You could just be signing their death certificate, it’s not your responsibility to keep others alive, no need to make it yours if something bad happens either.

I took a guy I was seeing to a fellow users house a few weeks back.
He’s a non user, but at some point during the night decided to buy some juice off my guy to try.

I advocated against the idea before eventually saying well it’s your choice and you are an adult, I can’t stop you.

Was still on me when he overdosed in my bed and I had to explain to the paramedics what he had done to put himself into a coma though.
After that I began to resent him for putting me in that position so carelessly. He was well educated on the safe use of the shit and still chose to drink almost 11ml when I wasn’t paying attention.
Not my responsibility. Not my fault.

But I still feel like a cunt for even taking him to a place he could access it.

Not worth it.
 
Of course there’s the old line ‘well they’re going to do it any way, at least I can assist in keeping them safe’

It’s a lie that addiction tells us.
The 2nd line is another old line that reminds me of AA/ NA mentality.
 
To each his own. If a grown adult want to try IV use, then no one can stop them. We can express concerns in non-shameful, manner that doesn’t inflict guilt on the user.

With that being said you (you being the experienced IV user) can have boundaries as well. Explain that you aren’t comfortable with that but you’d be happy to go over general precautions and safety measures. You don’t have to agree or help at all, just do what’s most conducive to that person remaining healthy, cause they are gonna inject if they wanna inject—regardless of emotional pull.
 
As with most topics in which there seems to be quite a bit of sensitivity surrounding, especially those dealing w/ drugs, political & socioeconomic issues, & really anything of importance that holds the power to cause nasty arguments and all of that, I see and have 2 opinions on this.

I’m sure it’s probably pretty common, but I was shot up by someone with heroin for my first time. I had previously done heroin by way of “monkey watering” it, and I was starting to become a fairly regular methamphetamine user around this time, I was 15. I had a buddy that was some years older than me, around 5-6 I want to say, and he did heroin. Dude was super well known in my city, and amongst my click of friends (I was the 14 year old hanging out with seniors and people who graduated years before), as being someone who loved drugs... heroin specifically.

Long story short, I start to chill with this dude & we clicked immediately. We’d do meth and shit at first, and then the day before my 16th birthday, it was 11/27/2010, I got him to take me to score some boy & rigs, and we went to the spot we’d smoke and snort meth and, and he banged me up. It was fucking amazing, but nothing like or as good as what it eventually becomes a few short weeks, maybe months, after that first hit. I manage to make it home safe and sound, and wake up the next day w/ my first taste of sickness. Very mild, but it was present. Met back up with him and hit the remainder of my sack, went home to a buddy who worked at CiCi’s, who brought me a large of my favorite pizza, home as a gift from his work.

The ages of 12-18 or so are still very fuzzy whenever I look back on them, ~I’m sure that my early introduction to drugs, basically daily use, & trauma brought about by certain experiences in life, has nothing to do with that~ so I’m not sure the exact details directly after, but I’m almost positive it went something along the lines of, continued to do meth, called Lance a few times to score, he took me, a few times turned into as many and often as possible, which turned into me no longer spending my money on meth, but still doing it when it was given to me, and that’s when I started making heroin my #1 priority and it was the “end all be all” at this point. I eventually learned how to shoot up on my own, at a buddies house, with a sack of meth and a brand new bag of rigs. I was shit at first lmao

Looking back, I can only remember one of my buddies & my ex-gf (didn’t do her first time) who I shot up for the first time. So, 1 of my buddies, my ex, and I think I shit this girl (and maybe her friend) up for the first times as well. I can’t quite remember. Back then, I was a kid in high school, less than 18 years old, and I didn’t give a fuck. I wasn’t super smart when it came to being responsible, and I was all about whatever got me free drugs or put me in a position to rob someone for drugs, or money to get drugs.

The dude I hit for the first time, it was with speed and he put a halt to that shit shortly after. A couple of years later though, he’s banging up dope and ended up getting bad off on it. He’s sober now off of heroin, which is cool and makes me happy. My ex, a buddy of mine hit her for the first time, and then I did afterwards for the duration of our relationship. No regrets on that either, though I did use to blame myself for her addiction, which was irrational and not fair to and of me to put all of that on myself. She’s currently in rehab or a sober living for like the, no bullshit, 20th+ time.

Where I become split is, these people are grown adults (most of the time. I was far from it both in age and mentality), so if you are experienced, why not show them the way to do it properly. If you don’t, chances of them finding someone else or just doing it themselves is pretty high. I do understand the moral dilemma that most seem to have though. On the other end of the spectrum, just because I’d do it to and show Joe Blow how to shoot up, doesn’t mean I’d show my ex-gf how to. It’s a weird and touchy subject.

Would I do it for someone else right now, as I type this? Can’t for sure answer that, because it would be something that all depended on all the variables at play and how I felt about the situation. I’m also a Harm reductionist at heart, and bleed, sweat and cry that shit, so I’d feel obligated to at least give them tips and show them the proper way to inject themselves. I’ve somehow managed to, over the past 10 years, never blow a vein out, only get 1 abscess, and manage being able to hit the same 1-2 veins for 5-6 weeks on end, with them just now getting to where I feel I need to swap spots for a bit. Not tooting my horn or anything like that, but if one has good techniques and is quite skilled at something, wouldn’t the logical and smartest thing to do be to pass on that knowledge to another that’s in need?! I also believe that the only thing that you’d be enabling as an experienced user, is enabling that person to inject drugs properly, with clean supplies, & as safely as possible. Just something to think about imo.
 
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As with most topics in which there seems to be quite a bit of sensitivity surrounding it, especially those dealing w/ drugs, political & socioeconomic issues, & really anything of importance that holds the power to cause nasty arguments and all of that, I see and have 2 opinions on this.

I’m sure it’s probably pretty common, but I was shot up by someone with heroin for my first time. I had previously done heroin by way of “monkey watering” it, and I was starting to become a fairly regular methamphetamine user around this time, I was 15. I had a buddy that was some years older than me, around 5-6 I want to say, and he did heroin. Dude was super well known in my city, and amongst my click of friends (I was the 14 year old hanging out with seniors and people who graduated years before), as being someone who loved drugs... heroin specifically.

Long story short, I start to chill with this dude & we clicked immediately. We’d do meth and shit at first, and then the day before my 16th birthday, it was 11/27/2010, I got him to take me to score some boy & rigs, and we went to the spot we’d smoke and snort meth and, and he banged me up. It was fucking amazing, but nothing like or as good as what it eventually becomes a few short weeks, maybe months, after that first hit. I manage to make it home safe and sound, and wake up the next day w/ my first taste of sickness. Very mild, but it was present. Met back up with him and hit the remainder of my sack, went home to a buddy who worked at CiCi’s, who brought me a large of my favorite pizza, home as a gift from his work.

The ages of 12-18 or so are still very fuzzy whenever I look back on them, ~I’m sure that my early introduction to drugs, basically daily use, & trauma brought about by certain experiences in life, has nothing to do with that~ so I’m not sure the exact details directly after, but I’m almost positive it went something along the lines of, continued to do meth, called Lance a few times to score, he took me, a few times turned into as many and often as possible, which turned into me no longer spending my money on meth, but still doing it when it was given to me, and that’s when I started making heroin my #1 priority and it was the “end all be all” at this point. I eventually learned how to shoot up on my own, at a buddies house, with a sack of meth and a brand new bag of rigs. I was shit at first lmao

Looking back, I can only remember one of my buddies & my ex-gf (didn’t do her first time) who I shot up for the first time. So, 1 of my buddies, my ex, and I think I shit this girl (and maybe her friend) up for the first times as well. I can’t quite remember. Back then, I was a kid in high school, less than 18 years old, and I didn’t give a fuck. I wasn’t super smart when it came to being responsible, and I was all about whatever got me free drugs or put me in a position to rob someone for drugs, or money to get drugs.

The dude I hit for the first time, it was with speed and he put a halt to that shit shortly after. A couple of years later though, he’s banging up dope and ended up getting bad off on it. He’s sober now off of heroin, which is cool and makes me happy. My ex, a buddy of mine hit her for the first time, and then I did afterwards for the duration of our relationship. No regrets on that either, though I did use to blame myself for her addiction, which was irrational and not fair to and of me to put all of that on myself. She’s currently in rehab or a sober living for like the, no bullshit, 20th+ time.

Where I become split is, these people are grown adults (most of the time. I was far from it both in age and mentality), so if you are experienced, why not show them the way to do it properly. If you don’t, chances of them finding someone else or just doing it themselves is pretty high. I do understand the moral dilemma that most seem to have though. On the other end of the spectrum, just because I’d do it to and show Joe Blow how to shoot up, doesn’t mean I’d show my ex-gf how to. It’s a weird and touchy subject.

Would I do it for someone else right now, as I type this? Can’t for sure answer that, because it would be something that all depended on all the variables at play and how I felt about the situation. I’m also a Harm reductionist at heart, and bleed, sweat and cry that shit, so I’d feel obligated to at least give them tips and show them the proper way to inject themselves. I’ve somehow managed to, over the past 10 years, never blow a vein out, only get 1 abscess, and manage being able to hit the same 1-2 veins for 5-6 weeks on end, with them just now getting to where I feel I need to swap spots for a bit. Not tooting my horn or anything like that, but if one has good techniques and is quite skilled at something, wouldn’t the logical and smartest thing to do be to pass on that knowledge to another that’s in need?! I also believe that the only thing that you’d be enabling as an experienced user, is enabling that person to inject drugs properly, with clean supplies, & as safely as possible. Just something to think about imo.
Good shit. Especially that last part
 
I’m with you man.

Of course there’s the old line ‘well they’re going to do it any way, at least I can assist in keeping them safe’

It’s a lie that addiction tells us.
You could just be signing their death certificate, it’s not your responsibility to keep others alive, no need to make it yours if something bad happens either.

I took a guy I was seeing to a fellow users house a few weeks back.
He’s a non user, but at some point during the night decided to buy some juice off my guy to try.

I advocated against the idea before eventually saying well it’s your choice and you are an adult, I can’t stop you.

Was still on me when he overdosed in my bed and I had to explain to the paramedics what he had done to put himself into a coma though.
After that I began to resent him for putting me in that position so carelessly. He was well educated on the safe use of the shit and still chose to drink almost 11ml when I wasn’t paying attention.
Not my responsibility. Not my fault.

But I still feel like a cunt for even taking him to a place he could access it.

Not worth it.
The 2nd line is another old line that reminds me of AA/ NA mentality.


There’s a few things being actively involved in, and starting/running a harm reduction organization and SSP has taught me. People are always going to use, you might as well make it safer for them to. Operating a needle exchange (which I think is a fair, not too far off comparison. + touches on your comment of enabling) is far from enabling. Unless you want to talk about the enabling & empowering of drug users to not share syringes & other IV injection supplies, get checked regularly, or with narcan, the enabling of breathing. Enabling is a, excuse my language, bullshit, old school, does more harm than good, term that’s used by those people who are all about “tough love”, and who refuse to treat PWUD with dignity and respect because “they’re doing it to and bringing it upon themselves. They’ll get help and sober when they want to.” I absolutely hate that phrase, “enabling”. It’s some high horse, egotistical shit that is only ever used in one fashion, and that’s to put PWUD.
 
There’s a few things being actively involved in, and starting/running a harm reduction organization and SSP has taught me. People are always going to use, you might as well make it safer for them to. Operating a needle exchange (which I think is a fair, not too far off comparison. + touches on your comment of enabling) is far from enabling. Unless you want to talk about the enabling & empowering of drug users to not share syringes & other IV injection supplies, get checked regularly, or with narcan, the enabling of breathing. Enabling is a, excuse my language, bullshit, old school, does more harm than good, term that’s used by those people who are all about “tough love”, and who refuse to treat PWUD with dignity and respect because “they’re doing it to and bringing it upon themselves. They’ll get help and sober when they want to.” I absolutely hate that phrase, “enabling”. It’s some high horse, egotistical shit that is only ever used in one fashion, and that’s to put PWUD.
Very fair points.
 
You could refuse to help someone inject and they may learn their lesson and stay away or they could try it alone by themselves. Or worse in a bad situation. It could be helpful to the person or worse.
 
I’m glad my mates refused to do it for me when I asked.
they injected and I smoked heroin. Ifthey had done it when I asked I genuinely believe I’d have continued injecting. In all the years of using I never once injected.
 
I almost want to move this to drug discussion, we shall see!

I feel that people make their own choices. It is actually our duty to ensure people know how to inject properly and understand the dangers. If they want help, you bet your ass ill give them the whole run down.

If we are referring to proseletyzing users, yes that would be kind of fucked up. Its not yhe liquor stores fault that people choose to drink themselves to death.

Thats how it is
 
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