☮ Social ☮ PD Social: Cross-dimensional chatter. Now featuring mesphereomeantoliopeme.

[Thorns Have Roses]

If you do convert into GHB, I think you don't want GBL anymore. People who have used only GBL usually "convert" when they get to try GHB. But it's a matter of taste of course.

^So I have heard, and I will take your word on it. I have been wanting to try it, but GBL being schedule I by state law and the companies around these days being less surreptitious than those of yore (or so I've heard) has made me hesitant to hazard a purchase though. Maybe someday...

I mean, I do count GBL as my overall favorite drug I've tried thus far (taking into account enjoyability of effects, daily-usability, speed of tolerance build up, ease/difficulty of developing physical dependency, etc. etc....without all those into account, some dissociative or would win probably). Of course, if one of the good barbs or the other kings of GABAergics floated my way I might change my mind.

What about 1,4-b? Or is that only a prodrug for GHB? I forget, and I've never used this family of compounds...

Don't know as much about that one, never tried it. It had a lot more negative talk surrounding it than GBL so I wasn't really interested.

 

[Cyanoide]

What about 1,4-b? Or is that only a prodrug for GHB? I forget, and I've never used this family of compounds...

1,4-Butanediol is very toxic, yes it converts to GHB but it is hepatoxic and does serious damage to your inner organs. It's also extremely hard to dose correct, there's a high risk of overdosing. Seriously I advice not to take it. It's very toxic and dangerous.

 

[delta_9]

^I have absolutely no interest in this family of drugs, so I'm not gonna be taking it anyway. It just popped into my head as I was reading your posts.

 

[Cyanoide]

^I have absolutely no interest in this family of drugs, so I'm not gonna be taking it anyway. It just popped into my head as I was reading your posts.

Actually me neither, I won't/can't take them anyway, but Lyrica resembles GHB quite much. And Lyrica's safety profile is very high. I really don't take it often, I just wanted to have a relaxing evening today. Psychedelics are my passion, but sometimes I just need to relax with some non-productive drug, I guess we all need some hedonism every now and then. Stimulants are too addictive and are extremely detrimental physically and mentally. That's why I chose to stop using them. I don't have any addictive drugs now and that's how it should be, my MXE is at my friend's place because I have an indefinite break from it. MXE also addictive for me. I'm going to focus on psychedelics now.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Since we're nearing the end of this social thread, PDers, you ought to throw out some suggestions for the name of the next one!

I'm a magnolia now, magnolia grandiflora (Southern Magnolia), to be precise. In the language of the flowers, the magnolia means nobility or splendid beauty. We used to have a magnolia tree in our front yard a long time ago, but it was cut down. I think they're some of the most beautiful flowers out there, they have a nice fragrance, and the leaves of the tree suit the blossoms quite well I think.

I'm going to focus on psychedelics now.

There's no way I could (or would desire to) use psychs frequently enough to say I would focus on them. My focus continues to be on escapism mostly based around short-acting gabaergics (currently alcohol), and other things for funsies whenever opportunity and inclination coincide.

 

[delta_9]

I hear ya Cyan. I'm on the same page nowadays. I've pretty much completely lost my former interest in using psychoactives, even psychedelics & dissociatives. The only "drug" I've been using for about the last month is caffeine via coffee/tea. Sure, I smoked some weed a few times but I just don't get excited about using anymore.
Don't get me wrong, it's not like I'll never trip again, nor do I think I'll never smoke again, but I just don't get excited about it anymore.

But all the drugs I used to use on a "now and then" basis(ie cocaine, opiates, benzos, amphets, etc) don't appeal to me anymore at all. Good riddance I say :D

 

[PepperSocks]

Gonna do melting point analysis of my mescaline today and if it's all in order trip tomorrow
Marquis test was good.

Probably 425 mg of the HCl.

Whoa-ho, let us know how it goes man

Nice find.

Damn, 1200 mg Lyrica, feeling wonderful. Like someone had put warm blankets and soft pillows around me, so chilled and peaceful. But my motoric skills are not trustworthy enough to go outside for a smoke, don't feel like stumbling around here the first days looking like a freak. Anyway, life feels really nice right now. My stimulant phase did really bad things to me mentally and physically, as did doing too much MXE. It's time for a more positive direction now

My last MXE experience really messed with me. I find I really don't like NMDA-antagonists; there's a dangerous edge in there. It was my first time snorting lines of MXE 'K-style' and the benzo-boshing, to try to ease it out didn't help either; it pretty much just got me started on a huge benzo tolerance/dependence. It seemed no matter how much I took (30mg diazepam, 1mg alprazolam; super high benzo dose for me) it didn't kill it, I still had to wait hours for sleep to come and ever since I've been in a benzo/opiate using phase.

Back dog sitting, found sizzurp in fridge. H must have spoiled me, had like 150+mg codeine, and even abstinent from opiates for four months I just feel like I need to be higher.

I've been doing AC&C extractions and I never really nod off codeine. I usually take around 80mg to get really high. With codeine it's pointless in chasing a nod. Especially with AC&C due to caffeine content. Diphenhydramine/benzos can help out though.

I'm still mainly pilfering the last of my O-desmethyltramadol; which has unfortunately dissapeared from the market. Next step is going to be poppy seeds

I was too lazy to convert my GBL into GHB, prodrug that it is, is it really that different? It is like paint remover though, haha, once I had some on my fingers at it stripped the ink off a paper cup you get at fast food restaurants, like it was red to begin with and white where my fingers touched it hahaha. I know GBL hits harder/quicker, and is a bit more intoxicating, but other than that?

Man, I was looking into ordering some GBL but it's so dangerous. Several newspaper stories from within my province have sprung up about people being charged importing quantities such as 1 Liter of GBL; sometimes less. Because quantities worth ordering are deemed 'intent for GHB manufacture/trafficking' and that GHB has been slandered as a date rape drug, placing an order is a really risky move. Having a package come in from overseas with a declaration label of "wheel cleaner" is not a good thing to have on your name. You can buy wheel cleaner at the local hardware store, customs aren't stupid (well, the government is, another convo) and the companies selling it aren't being discrete. All that adds up to me being too apprehensive to order GBL.

OTOH, there's other avenues, albeit more of PITA for the kitchen; look at GABA. NH2 > OH; goggle.. have atter. I've been thinking about it. I love GHB, it's the perfect alcohol substitute and would be wonderful if it were legalized. Like alcohol isn't an effective date rape drug in the first place.

About the Lyrica talk; I would love to get a script for it. Unfortunately I'd probably have to go through years of the gauntlet of SSRI meds before it being considered.

At the moment phenibut is the best I can do. I might try picamilon. Other than those there's Valerian and Kava. Someone needs to set up a massive GHB lab starting from MSG, I'd buy.

Ah, I'm going to indulge in 3 of my last ~7 grams.

 

[Roger&Me]

NH2 > OH

Ouch, that sounds like a pain in the ass. You'll never displace the amine with hydroxide, but you have a couple options: you could turn it into a diazonium salt that would almost certainly be very explosive and then convert that to the alcohol under acidic conditions; or you could use a commercially available pyrylium salt (that you would need to get from aldrich or somebody like that) to convert the amine to a better leaving group, and then treat that compound with KOH in DMF. Sounds annoying either way, especially for something as relatively uninteresting as GHB.

 

[TheAppleCore]

Wow, that was an absolutely brilliant trip. Although I obviously want to continue to live and grow, that's the kind of experience that, in a way, makes me feel contented to die. If only in that one beautiful, glorious experience, all my troubles and pains have been vindicated.

I'm going to have to officially endorse the extended, multi-day trip technique, at least with 4-AcO-DMT. It really took a deep, long exploration of that space to finally strike gold, so to speak. Having a good trip on 4-AcO-DMT is really a victory -- it doesn't work like a lot of drugs, in which you're just handed everything on a plate, and feel satisfied on the one hand, but stupid and lazy for just allowing chemicals to bring you your joys on the other. 4-AcO-DMT really involves you in the process, so you're not just a spectator, but a participant, which is *so* satisfying.

Also, if you're reading this Roger&Me, thank you SO much for recommending Fillmore East 9/19/70! That was completely epic! That night the Dead cultivated such a delicious combination of relaxation and laid-back vibes, on the one hand, and insane energy, on the other! Also, I love when Pigpen shouts "FUCK!" after the grand finale. :D

Man, I was so rapt, so focused on the music during that trip. So completely free of mental distraction, just a pure iron connection to the music.

All right, I'll shut up about it now, and go write a trip report or something.

My last MXE experience really messed with me. I find I really don't like NMDA-antagonists; there's a dangerous edge in there.

I don't have any addictive drugs now and that's how it should be, my MXE is at my friend's place because I have an indefinite break from it. MXE also addictive for me.

A drug's capacity to negatively affect its user, and to positivity do so, are equal -- two sides of the same coin. Yes, dissociatives can be highly destructive, but also incredibly constructive, I am quite confident. Everyone responds differently to all psychoactive drugs, but I would be cautious of writing off MXE as a toxic fun drug. I have gained an invaluable psychological tune-up from MXE.

Edit: Everything is spinning, my monitor is spinnng, wherever I look everything is just spinning and spinning. I think I manage the high by writing here, I focus on something. If I would get up from the chair everything would just spin and I'd probably stumble around, walking into walls and falling around. The monster dose is really starting to show it's effects.

Nice job writing a coherent post, in that state! No grammatical errors -- I think that must be a world record of some kind! :D

 

[PepperSocks]

Ouch, that sounds like a pain in the ass. You'll never displace the amine with hydroxide, but you have a couple options: you could turn it into a diazonium salt that would almost certainly be very explosive and then convert that to the alcohol under acidic conditions; or you could use a commercially available pyrylium salt (that you would need to get from aldrich or somebody like that) to convert the amine to a better leaving group, and then treat that compound with KOH in DMF. Sounds annoying either way, especially for something as relatively uninteresting as GHB.

Diazonium intermediate it is. Sodium Nitrite (NaNO2) + HCl yields HNO2 which when reacted with GABA yields the diazonium intermediate, from there N2 gas is released, and GBL is formed; NaOH to GBH from there. There's a synth in the Rhodium archives that describes the detail better. Getting to GBL is the hard part.

The key is doing so with easily available equipment and materials (GABA, HCl, NaOH, NaNO2 are relatively easy to get. Finding NaNO2 is likely the hardest, it's used in meat curing, but it'd be hard to find pure stuff). Obviously if we can have a full orgo lab with a Sigma account we'd all be having a blast doing things the proper and easy way. Doing it while powering through restrictions imposed by the man is the tough (and explosively, corrosively, generally dangerous) part.

Without access to GBL that is the easiest way to get to GBL, and then to GHB. Sad when you think of how simple a molecule it is.

edit: Recombinant E.Coli culture? :D

 

[Cloudy]

Wow so, of course the lighter I bought from the local 7/11 shit out on me tonight. I'm pissed I was 10 cents short causing me not to get the bic (man it was 2.15). I saw this day coming, and it was quite quick. I didn't even have enough gas left to light the candle next me after I saw it spitting low flame. Ended up using a soldering iron to help me get the job done.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

The opiate goodness just got better as it wound down. Still feeling it a bit actually, which is unexpected (and not entirely desired...it's tainting my drunk).

Wow so, of course the lighter I bought from the local 7/11 shit out on me tonight. I'm pissed I was 10 cents short causing me not to get the bic (man it was 2.15). I saw this day coming, and it was quite quick. I didn't even have enough gas left to light the candle next me after I saw it spitting low flame. Ended up using a soldering iron to help me get the job done.

I have like a box full of little butane canisters and lighters, come over and I'll throw you some. Also a whole bunch of matches.

 

[delta_9]

As much as I absolutely love the utility of convenience of lighters, I really can't stress enough how important it is to have a good supply of matches around the house. I try not to ever use matchbooks, only box matches, although I certainly wont refuse to use a matchbook if it's offered to me. I just find them flimsy in general
I really do think the match was one of our best inventions :D

 

[kingme]

nothing beats flint stones as far as fire starting goes as an invention

 

[delta_9]

But how is that an invention? It's just a naturally occurring mineral.

Now flintstones the cartoon, that was a good invention

 

[Roger&Me]

Diazonium intermediate it is. Sodium Nitrite (NaNO2) + HCl yields HNO2 which when reacted with GABA yields the diazonium intermediate, from there N2 gas is released, and GBL is formed

bolded part highlights the part of the reaction where you go boom :D

N2 is so stable, and the liberation of gas from a salt is so entropically favorable, that you need to be really careful that reaction doesn't proceed too quickly (I mean, we're speaking hypothetically of course ). Going from an amine to an alcohol is kinda like walking up the down escalator, though -- there's really no elegant way to go about the process. Reactions always proceed in the direction of the weaker acid and base, and hydroxide is a much weaker base than the amide anion.

Also, if you're reading this Roger&Me, thank you SO much for recommending Fillmore East 9/19/70! That was completely epic! That night the Dead cultivated such a delicious combination of relaxation and laid-back vibes, on the one hand, and insane energy, on the other! Also, I love when Pigpen shouts "FUCK!" after the grand finale. :D

:D

That show is extremely cosmic. The perfect trip music, IMHO. A long time ago, I took LSD and put some headphones on and hit play on that show -- and I really never thought of music the same way after that. There's that long silence in Dark Star, and in my spun out state I completely forgot that I had even turned music on... and then the music creeps back in from the silence and everything just spirals into oblivion, and then the sweetest melody rises up out of the craziness and guides you through this intense journey of musical conversation. I had never experienced anything like that before, I was perma-grinned for months after experiencing that (And when pigpen yelled "fuck!", I erupted in jeweled fountains of bellowing laughter. It was one of the funniest things I had ever heard; such an urgently needed release of energy after the crazy ride through space you've just been on.)

If any of you guys want to check it out, you can download the show here:Fillmore East 09-19-1970 from the NUGS.net stash



edit: I'm looking forward to reading the trip report!

 

[Solipsis]

nothing beats flint stones as far as fire starting goes as an invention

On that note: apparently the lighter was invented before matches. :D

I've decided not to take mescaline today, I just felt too wrecked to start on time and don't want to be up late. Also the DOMS that I was talking about which is like next-level muscle pain that peaks a few days after the cause(s) is peaking now and it just bothered me too much. I don't want to let it stand in the way of a beautiful experience.
It's a bitch, I've been waiting for a while now and had to skip for other reasons but they are all connected to a busy schedule. Not sure it's a good idea to do it next friday if I have pencak silat exam on sunday (martial arts).

I may go for moderate dose 4-AcO-DiPT today as a general interesting day enhancer.


Hopefully all turned out well if you took valerian, Cyanoide. Because lyrica and neurontin seriously potentiate other GABAergics, which in best case just puts you to sleep but there are examples of sickening overdose feelings such as those possible with GHB or phenibut. I hope you didn't get that.
If I dose high on Neurontin, it feels so good but I do get sort of catatonic. Just staring blankly, feeling good.

 

[SpecialK_]

Anyone here love just healthy food while on LSD? I've no idea why, but healthy food just seems to go down a lot better and even seems to give a small afterglow after eating.

That and crisps are probably my favourite foods to eat while tripping. I know some people out there don't eat while tripping, but I always do.

I remember eating truffles though (and their horrible taste) and ended up with crisps and popcorn that just tasted earthy and shroom like. Like watery nuts, was horrible.

 

[Solipsis]

Hahah totally, and not only with LSD - I got pieces of fresh pineapple - an exotic fruit mix (also fresh bits) and white grapes for today since mescaline was on the menu. Crisps are ready here as well. Sometimes candy like sour patches but not too much or it will start feeling dirty from the sugar. I got licorice lollys as well.Also for dinner there is a ready to mix full-meal salad, they are nice and light.
So to sum up you're not the only one. My good friend and housemate is the same as well.

anyway
The fucked up ness has subsided a bit in my legs and I dropped white on white blotter as a resolution. Will have to gauge intensity but it's super clean.

I have a bunch of hofmanns lying around but they feel so messy and apparently those soap tasting ones from a few years back were LSB / LSP from lab test. Don't think I'm a fan...

 

[Cyanoide]

Hopefully all turned out well if you took valerian, Cyanoide. Because lyrica and neurontin seriously potentiate other GABAergics, which in best case just puts you to sleep but there are examples of sickening overdose feelings such as those possible with GHB or phenibut. I hope you didn't get that.
If I dose high on Neurontin, it feels so good but I do get sort of catatonic. Just staring blankly, feeling good.

Everything went well, I didn't feel much of the Valerian. But I still feel the Lyrica today, with such high doses the whole next day is a kind of "hangover" day, but not in any negative way. I just don't feel totally sober yet.

I realized its May Day on Tuesday. This means I can trip tomorrow, finally. DMT and 4-AcO-DMT are on the menu