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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Pain management patients and stricter compliance

Raysu

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Messages
597
When it comes to prescription drugs with the potential for abuse there is a fine line between wants and needs. Clearly anyone with pain or anxiety and the like want and expect adequate treatment and there may be valid reasons, real needs, to implement them. With the rise in addiction and overdoses there is a growing fear in the medical community to not prescribe certain drugs to patients. Patients with a history of abuse/misuse are for obvious reasons less likely to receive such medication.

Recently I was faced with a moral dilemma-do I lie to my doctor about my history or do I risk being honest and hope I receive adequate treatment? When I do the right thing I often find myself being penalized for it and either end up having to again endure a treatment plan that has failed in the past, or one that falls short based on my level of risk. The result is often self medicating to compensate and worsening symptoms and a return of addictive behavior.

I often feel that random testing, prescription drug monitoring, and contracts fall short of accountability and that perhaps with stricter standards in place there would be greater compliance, less fear to give adequate treatment programs, and raise personal safety. I ask myself if I were to be tested twice a week every week, receive only a weeks worth of prescriptions in a prescription monitored lock box at a time, and receive a full physical exam weekly would compliance be easier?

So many people burn through thirty days of medication in the first few days, use alternate ROAs, and go out of their way to cheat tests, among other behavior. The technology and monitoring exists to really raise accountability but it is not consistently applied if used at all. There are prescription lock boxes that release a dose at a time as preset by a doctor or pharmacist, that will notify if the dose is not taken or if the device is tampered with. Back in the height of my addiction had a physical exam been thorough enough surely my problem would have been discovered.

Yes it would be inconvenient to have such standards and it would swamp doctors offices and pharmacies with extra work, and drug tests are expensive and not all inclusive but maybe it would help many of us save us from ourselves if more of these things were in place and enforced. So I ask those of you with a history of addiction would you agree to such standards and inconvenience in order to be honest and adequately treated by your doctors? And if not, why not?

These thoughts bring to mind my motivations for the medications I'm prescribed and the lengths I'd go to in order to have an ideal treatment plan and completely honest and open relationship with practitioners. While no plan is fool-proof, I do believe these measures would be a huge step in resolving the current crisis regarding prescription medications and would love to hear thoughts from others on the matter. Thank you!
 
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I do have a pharmacy contract that prevents any other pharmacy from dispensing CNS effective drugs to me and also it must always be the same clinic that prescribes these drugs and I also get my drugs twice in a week instead of getting three month supply of opioids at once.

With these methods I have been able to taper my dose into 1/4 of what it was before. Going twice to a pharmacy every week isn't that big deal if I can effectively taper down instead going dr shopping for more and more drugs everytime I run short of my drugs.
 
I've always been completely honest with all my doctors. I told my pain Doctor about my marijuana usage. 3 years with the same Doctor and not 1 drug test or pill count....until that faithful January 4th. Surprise drug test! They called me 2 weeks later to tell me because I was "using drugs" they could no longer see me. My new pain Doctor drug tests and pill counts at every appointment. Although I pissed dirty last week so we,ll see what happens with that.
 
I think it needs to be handled on a case by case basis. Most chronic pain patients do not abuse their meds, keep their appointments and try other therapies besides ever escalating doses of opioids. To restrict them is foolish.
 
So do you believe there would be a benefit of separating people out that admit to having a psychological pull, meaning those that enjoy their meds in addition to needing them, in an effort to protect them specifically? It seems like some are but rather than isolating people specifically, simply have categories of those who have the history/potential genetically and people who have been treated long term with no incidences.
 
This sounds good for young people abusing their meds but my father is a 68 year old parkinsons patient that had 2 knees replaced and is having another back surgery after having 2 already and he is having work done on his foot....His DR put him on a narco agrement contract for his 10mg oxycodone every month and once did a pill count and urine test....but you forget how many OLD, SICK and seriously messed up physically, people there are on pain management so unless you want doctors to single out ALL YOUNG PEOPLE as drug abusers, it is not reasonable to be dragging all of these old people, people with serious health issues and woth serious body pain issues, out of the house MULTIPLE times a week for tests (not only due to pain but due to work and jons etc), my dad also takes his meds AS NEEDED FOR PAIN not on some timed schedule etc....So i get that your idea may be great for you since you dont seem to have your own self control or will power to control your usage and may be great for people that are jist trying to get high as it would stop then but for MOST PEOPLE with real legit issues and not minor problems, thisnis no where near reasonable....Cancer patients, patients under going multiple surgeries, etc....yeah, not practical at all....Need to think about the big picture and not just the people abusing their meds. Also, you cant then ask the doctors to GUESS who needs this extra monitoring because then they are profiling people....so yeah, absolutely NOT. If doctors would prescribe meds to the people that need them and then help them get off of them when the time comes then people with real pain wpuld stop being forced to go to the street for drugs...Its the people with nk self control or will power to not abuse all their meds that are ruining for the rest of us and punishing normal people with all that extra stuff is INSANE...
 
Also, did you mention "genetically" disposed to abusing their meds? How are they supposed to determine thay myth? If your dad drinks then you will probably abuse your meds? Because that would be environment not genetics and also again we are profiling....That is just an even bigger slippery slope....then will ot be minorities that live in high drug areas may be lrone to sell or abuse so we turn them down to?....None of this is reasonable...sorry.
 
Is just like to see a platform that allows people with a drug history to have the same opportunities for adequate care as people who do have self control. I don't feel I'm the exception here and I'm sure many others have severe injuries/illness that warrent the typically abused drugs. I have an affinity for honesty but am torn when the question arises as to whether or not I have ever misused or abused drugs or alcohol. Yes I have. Does that mean that I should get ibuprofen when someone who can honestly answer no gets oxy. I cannot undo my past but don't feel I should be punished the rest of my life for it. And I'd like to see any addict be put in a spot where they get a small tease of a med that falls short of their tolerance level and have impeccable self control. Do I ever enjoy using up scripts too fast? No it only adds to worry and for the time I feel normal I pay with time I feel horrible. I don't feel like people who don't have such tendencies should be held accountable as long as their track record supports that. But the profiling begins when the questions are asked about drug history and suicide history in particular. The stereotype is set on the answers and the treatment plan is revised. I just feel like instead of revising the treatment plan they should focus on revising the accountability level.
 
From what I know about my country's take on treating addicts with narcotics I still do think that these options we currently have are great. They actually allow people with ongoing or prior substance abuse to be able to receive same pain management as people who have never abused. Also people are being more honest on their use as they know that they will get the pain management they need.

For a person who has had a history of abuse but wants to stay sober and knows he might relapse after getting narcotic drugs this is truly a god sent option.

Doctors did screen people before instead making patient go through some hoops they had to just say no as there wasn't this option that we currently have here.
 
The problem with personal accountability is often the person. If someone uses legal methods to obtain drugs but still abuses them, do you think its a far leap to obtain them illegally?
 
Kittycat5, I think that pharmacy prices vs. street price plays a major role in this too. If after national healthcare insurance (which every citizen here applies for automatically) price for a box of OxyContin is same as for one pill in streets anyone who has a legit reason to use them would buy them from pharmacy even if they would want to abuse them someway. It would be a huge leap in terms of financial losses to start buying from the streets if you have a condition for which those are prescribed.

As visits to your primary are free after three visits per year those prescriptions don't cost a lot either and those three first visits cost pretty much same as one 20mg OxyContin.

Drug abusers even have pretty much totally free healthcare.
 
I dont think that applies to many here in America, MrRoot. I will explain but its quite obvious that since we not only do not have national health, are the largest users of rx drugs, and have the DEA and media that stigmatize and sensationalize prescription drug abuse that our culture is quite different.
 
"For a person who has had a history of abuse but wants to stay sober and knows he might relapse after getting narcotic drugs this is truly a god sent option."

PRECISELY!!! I'm all for compliance but my body does not have the same settings it used to and a dose for someone who has never used is a drop in the bucket for those who have. I am grateful every day that I have understanding doctors even though they still fall short of the mark because some don't even give people the chance. They are afraid of overprescribing and for good reason but I really feel for the sector who have abused in the past, are getting help now, but it's a "tease" and the medical equivalent of a crash diet. How many morbidly obese people could suddenly have a 1200 calorie a day diet and not go crazy wanting to cheat on it? Or if diabetics were only given a portion of their insulin? Maybe it's enough to work but they feel like crap around the clock and morale hits a rapid decline just exacerbating things. Right now maintenance programs are the only ones who seem to understand addiction and the demands that must be met for someone who wants things to get better to be able to function. I don't think they are pressured the same way as doctors are. I walk on eggshells knowing if I lose my doctors the something is better than nothing goes to having nothing. I'm also grateful for having insurance because there's no way I could afford street pricing for a week let alone a month at a time. The street value of my scripts monthly is close to $5000. That's why suddenly diversion is making the news. Someone with chronic pain loses their job and goes to plan b to not lose their home too until they can replace it. I think things are going to get way worse before they get better with this set up in the economy. And when someone loses their insurance and street drugs are cheaper than the legal coping OTC meds? Yeah something needs to happen soon because this scenario is becoming commonplace. I don't think anyone who has made it into a pain management program but has had issues with addiction and has legitimate pain deliberately wants to add to the problem. No one wants to drop dirty and get dropped as a patient. No one wants to resort to maybe picking up an old habit because they can't afford what insurance doesn't cover. There are plenty in the world hell bent on death or who have no intention of ever quitting. I was there before and it scares the shit out of me that I'm one event short of being there again....mostly because I know how much I'd enjoy it until it does me in. I started posting here on BL simply because the psych doctor I waited months and months to get in to see and maybe help me was a complete waste-ten minutes (no joke a ten minute new patient psych appt) of rushed overtly personal interrogation (no I don't want to get into how I tried to kill myself with you doc I just met you), no hand shake, no eye contact, repeated questions because he was more interested in typing than listening, refusing to maintain me on meds that were helpful (thanks a lot DEA), pushing drugs on me I've had bad reactions to just to "try it again" (umm ok back to the ER again then), and my "it's just a chemistry panel" had a drug test added that wasn't mentioned. I'd passed but the point is my honesty made my life hell again as I had to detox off benzos I had been scripted by the previous doctors cold turkey because this new psych just didn't feel like it. So my bitter lonely self turned to posting here to not suffer by sharing with and interacting with others. This is my therapy because my medical therapy let me down...again.
 
I dont think that applies to many here in America, MrRoot. I will explain but its quite obvious that since we not only do not have national health, are the largest users of rx drugs, and have the DEA and media that stigmatize and sensationalize prescription drug abuse that our culture is quite different.
Vote Sanders ! :)

Anyhow I wast just giving you an example how things are different here and why we have much lower amount of drug related crimes.

You definately need tax funded national healthcare in my opinion.
 
As MrRoot pointed out above, there are usually standards in place for those who receive pain meds, and occasionally other CNS depressants too, from a doctor. Ive seen this method rampantly abused, as most of the time it's just a contract with the dr and the pharmacy, and if the pharmacy is out of the med then forget it.
As far as being honest, in most cases I'd say the risk outweighs the benefit, as there is often nothing to be gained and it creates more of a potential for further loss. There again, sometimes you'll get a really great doctor that understands there exists a threat that one might just go score from the street, and in an effort at harm reduction a script will be issued every week or two in order to establish compliance. I understand this is a few and far between scenario, but it does occur.
 
Hello All. KK, MRoot,chelle216,LaBlueEyes,Deadpool and Raysu. I too am involved in this clusterf**k called pain management. This is a very interesting thread! Anyhow, I am in the process of switching to a new pain doctor. Some of those bastards must be into S&M. I went from having the best doctor on earth, to an alpha male, who doesn't know the names of pain meds and cut 20mg of Opana ER a day and three Percocet 5/325, down to 20mg of Percocet 5/325, cold turkey. Complete asshole IMO.

I have found that if you keep yourself wide open and keep your PCP, psych doc and pain doc in the know, you have a much better chance of getting treated correctly. Also,even if you don't agree with your initial treatment, if you give it a shot, then tell them "I tried this and it works, but it's missing something or it slightly helps( think for yourself) ", that shows them that your willing to play ball with them. I took tricyclics, Lyrica/pregabalin, morphine, Percocet 5/325, IR oxycodone, tramadol, hydrocodone( that's not in order, but close) then finally I got 10mg Oxymorphone ER x 2 a day and three Percocet 5/325 for break through pain. The point is, I had to climb up, in order to get what worked for me. News flash, the system is fucked up. It's up to you to get the correct treatment. When your Psych doc and PCP are on board and your pain doctor is an asshole, tell your other doctors then go to another doctor. You are aloud to pick and choose who works best for you. As long as your other doctors know the score, you are in the clear.
My doctors give me no shit whatsoever. I go in, tell them what's going on and remain open with them. That way, they know and build trust with you. You have to be your own advocate. Understand that they know how to read you and feel you out also. Honesty goes a long way.
 
I agree that honesty has been a huge factor in getting where I'm at today in PM but I also see that another huge factor is the openmindedness of the doctors themselves. It's sad that the system labels people as doctor shopping when just trying to find a working relationship with a medical professional. I feel I really lucked out lately. I used to say you pick your diagnosis when you pick your doctor which then became you pick your medications when you pick your doctor but personally I just needed to find doctors who care more for their patients than social stigmas. No doctor should feel pressured to treat their patients by any source except their own conscience! And no patient should have to sit in a doctors office and feel like they're on probation. Instead of DEA adherence the emphasis should be on whatever it takes to keep an open dialogue and to preserve doctor patient confidentiality.
 
Hello All. KK, MRoot,chelle216,LaBlueEyes,Deadpool and Raysu. I too am involved in this clusterf**k called pain management. This is a very interesting thread! Anyhow, I am in the process of switching to a new pain doctor. Some of those bastards must be into S&M. I went from having the best doctor on earth, to an alpha male, who doesn't know the names of pain meds and cut 20mg of Opana ER a day and three Percocet 5/325, down to 20mg of Percocet 5/325, cold turkey. Complete asshole IMO.

I have found that if you keep yourself wide open and keep your PCP, psych doc and pain doc in the know, you have a much better chance of getting treated correctly. Also,even if you don't agree with your initial treatment, if you give it a shot, then tell them "I tried this and it works, but it's missing something or it slightly helps( think for yourself) ", that shows them that your willing to play ball with them. I took tricyclics, Lyrica/pregabalin, morphine, Percocet 5/325, IR oxycodone, tramadol, hydrocodone( that's not in order, but close) then finally I got 10mg Oxymorphone ER x 2 a day and three Percocet 5/325 for break through pain. The point is, I had to climb up, in order to get what worked for me. News flash, the system is fucked up. It's up to you to get the correct treatment. When your Psych doc and PCP are on board and your pain doctor is an asshole, tell your other doctors then go to another doctor. You are aloud to pick and choose who works best for you. As long as your other doctors know the score, you are in the clear.
My doctors give me no shit whatsoever. I go in, tell them what's going on and remain open with them. That way, they know and build trust with you. You have to be your own advocate. Understand that they know how to read you and feel you out also. Honesty goes a long way.


Hey, I will respond to our convo last night more thoroughly at some point as my head is more clear today.
 
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