RCs Pagoclone is surprisingly good

[ketagoblin]

I fell for the "perfect anxiety reliever" meme when Pyrazolam was all hyped up, the ability to reduce anxiety without much of sedation sounded too good to be true, and it failed to deliver, so I didn't have high hopes for this compound aswell
However I have to say I am pretty impressed. A dose of somewhere between 5-8mg was taken orally. It hit in just minutes, the headspace change was perceivable, felt like a very light benzo, yet as clearheaded/functional as could be.

The only issue is that I couldn't make a solution. When not touched, it looks like oil and water, refuses to mix, when I shake it it looks like a foggy hurricane. Used pure ethanol for solvent, I read someone had the same problem when using PG.
Do you think the solution is okay, I just have to shake it hard before measuring a dose?

Also what are your thoughts on Z-drug withdrawals? I am really liking this substance so I will find out likely

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Any chance you tried etizolam? If not phenibut or pregabaline? If not prescription benzos? If so could you be so kind to compare it to those as I never tried pyrazolam.

As for the solution, if I was you, since you already dissolved it I would add some PG, some glycerine and some water too and than shake it before use. Well, I probably wouldn’t lol

Thing is when you shake it like that you are getting heterogeneous liquid mix of something but in practice it can/could be used as it’s homogeneous, IF it’s stays like that for some time and doesn’t get back to clear almost immediately as in that case there’s a layer of something at the bottom or the top of your solution. Hmmm….that’s not only option either. You might have heterogeneous liquid solution that’s dispersed, even unshaken for practical use like if it’s homogeneous and when you shake it you disperse it to finer parts. Or it could be…multiple substances dispersed in multiple ways...or...

 

[ketagoblin]

As for the solution, if I was you, since you already dissolved it I would add some PG, some glycerine and some water too and than shake it before use. Well, I probably wouldn’t lol

Thing is when you shake it like that you are getting heterogeneous liquid mix of something but in practice it can/could be used as it’s homogeneous, IF it’s stays like that for some time and doesn’t get back to clear almost immediately as in that case there’s a layer of something at the bottom or the top of your solution. Hmmm….that’s not only option either. You might have heterogeneous liquid solution that’s dispersed, even unshaken for practical use like if it’s homogeneous and when you shake it you disperse it to finer parts. Or it could be…multiple substances dispersed in multiple ways...or...

I didn't dissolve it completely, I have 2 grams of the stuff, only put 450mg in the solution. You are indeed seeing the issue clearly. When shaken, it takes a good 3-4 minutes to fully return to their 2 separate layers.
What to do here? Would you say, in shaken form, it's more or less accurate to dose this solution?

Any chance you tried etizolam? If not phenibut or pregabaline? If not prescription benzos? If so could you be so kind to compare it to those as I never tried pyrazolam.

Haven't done etiz but I have done all the rest you have mentioned, pregabalin I did not like (had high hopes for it, bought a huge supply but only ever tried it 3 times). Not comparable for me, all it did was made me drowsy and slow
Phenibut is weird, it went from being subtle, to a really "in your face" type of high for me over the years. Pretty intense body high, uplifting pronounced mental effects, with a nasty hangover.

Pago's body high is in no way comparable to it; for me it feels almost identical to a light dose Clonazepam, with the mental effects being closer to something like Kratom?
I know pharmacologically speaking that doesn't make sense, but benzos have always been INCREDIBLY anti-social drugs for me, and phenibut's pro-social effects are too intense to be compared to Pago (Although not superior; I think the key word here is CASUAL.)
Pagoclone really feels like a drug you could casually take to curb anxiety without much decline in cognitive or social function.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I didn't dissolve it completely, I have 2 grams of the stuff, only put 450mg in the solution. You are indeed seeing the issue clearly. When shaken, it takes a good 3-4 minutes to fully return to their 2 separate layers.
What to do here? Would you say, in shaken form, it's more or less accurate to dose this solution?

So you can see it separate in 2 layers? In that case figure out what layer has all/most of the stuff.

Your best bet is to purify your substance in a one way or another. As you say you get 2 layers even dissolving stuff in absolute alcohol and discarding one layer would do fine. But maybe you got it in some form that doesn’t dissolve in ethanol at all/hardly and that’s the reason you get two layers and not impurities and/or low solubility of those in given solvent.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Pagoclone really feels like a drug you could casually take to curb anxiety without much decline in cognitive or social function.

Well fact it feels so doesn’t mean much. But at the same time it usually means something at least. O boy, wish I could try this.

Btw sry for my messed up explanation above of what you should do, drank a bit.

 

[ketagoblin]

discarding one layer would do fine

I mean, one layer is the alcohol, and the other is the Pagoclone it literally doesn't dissolve at all. But stays mixed for a decent duration when shaken hard. It's not properly dissolved, so no matter how shaken it won't be homogenous however it's my best bet with this solution, right?

Well fact it feels so doesn’t mean much. But at the same time it usually means something at least. O boy, wish I could try this.

Btw sry for my messed up explanation above of what you should do, drank a bit.

It's been a great while since last I've been this excited about a chem! Although I don't wanna get my hopes up; I tend to overrate every substance after only having 1 experience with them

 

[AlsoTapered]

For a while Nutt was hyping pagoclone as a safe alcohol alternative.

An Efficient and Cost-Effective Synthesis of Pagoclone​

Cite this: Org. Proc. Res. Dev. 2003, 7, 6, 851–855
Publication Date:September 17, 2003
https://doi.org/10.1021/op034060b

Looks like a bit of a pig to make if the above is considered both 'efficient' and 'cost-effective'

But the day of the benzo had to end and here comes a new raft of analogues.

SOMEONE will find an a5 selective one which should be much more like alcohol.

But always with the amide moiety....

 

[wheresthefun]

Pagoclone causes strange optical hallucinations in higher doses. When used to counteract anxiety/paranoia from stims (pv´s and so on), this caused me not to only hear voices (as I do when psychotic on strong stims), but to also see the corresponding people and so on....that night took a strange scary turn to the even darker side of psychosis afterwards. not recommended. Its strange stuff

 

[AlsoTapered]

Fascinating insights. Pagoclone has a chiral centre and I noted that it's (+) pagoclone (I guess they used X-ray crystallography) that is the active anxiolytic. So MAYBE some of the unexpected effects are mediated by (-) i.e. (S) pagoclone?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221984164_Pagoclone_Anxiolytic_GABa-ABZD_site_partial_agonist

PubChem

PubChem is the world's largest collection of freely accessible chemical information. Search chemicals by name, molecular formula, structure, and other identifiers. Find chemical and physical properties, biological activities, safety and toxicity information, patents, literature citations and more.

pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Pubchem returns the racemate and the pure (S).

For people unfamiliar with the many tricks pharmaceutical companies employ, one is to gain a market licence for the racemate and JUST before their patent runs out, release studies showing that the chical compound is better... and get a NEW patent.

Citalopram, methylphenidate, sambutamol and a host of others pulled this trick.

Now researchers are replacing H with D at certain spots to increase duration of action (in the one case I know got an ML) but their was a lot of pushback because I don't think many had previously excluded D so a tiny fraction of the drug would have a D in the right spot anyway, In short, the people issuing patents declared that without strong evidence of an advantage, swapping a H for a D wouldn't get you a new patent.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I mean, one layer is the alcohol, and the other is the Pagoclone it literally doesn't dissolve at all. But stays mixed for a decent duration when shaken hard. It's not properly dissolved, so no matter how shaken it won't be homogenous however it's my best bet with this solution, right?

Lol I thought otherwise. If so I would add something else in which pagoclone should be soluble as sometimes mixing more solvents results in a mixture that dissolves something better than each alone.