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  • P&S Moderators: Xorkoth | Madness

P&S Alternative Theories thread v. orange tang

Xorkoth said:
I have had that thought about John Lennon before. He played a powerful role in culture in his time and his demise was pretty symbolic if you look at it that way. And he was basically preaching love. He did a great job at that.
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Not so long ago I saw something about Lennon and Yoko Ono and looked a bit more closely at their personalities. I actually thought Lennon didn't come accross that spiritual or high-consciouss and that he was a bit over-rated (but he was on drugs at the time). I also noticed, although everyone seems to hate Yoko, she had a very spiritual feeling about her. Maybe she was a re-incarnation of Mother Mary. They were certainly looked upto like figures like that (and the long Madonna-hair).

But if he was a reincarnation of Christ, he would only have been an incarnation of a small part of that soul that didn't hold full consciousness or reach enlightenment in that lifetime, while as Jesus I imagine he would have been present with his full consciousness. So he would only have been the lower self of Christ the same way we're all lower representations of our higher selves or who we are at our highest potential. I think you can express or embody that higher aspect of yourself more or less perfectly, and it doesn't always go that well, but it's what gives you higher inspiration and impulses.

Human life makes it hard to stay in touch with that part of yourself, like it's all designed to drown it out, so it's usually only possible to represent to a smaller degree but that can sometimes be enough to have a positive influence and even take up a leader-role. Anyway, if that's really the case, I think it's right this information hasn't been pushed upon us as they were powerful figures in their own right. So if one didn't speak to you maybe the other would and it would serve more to dilute their power the way the world works.

But if Lennon was Jesus, who was Paul McCartney? Saint Peter? He's always been innocent looking and has a saint-like aura about him. I know people are very reluctant to recognise anyone as enlightened or saint-like, as they think they come accross just like any human, but everyone does for the most part because they are just like any human. It seems like many expect someone more spiritually developed to come accross as super-human and stand apart in all ways, but it's rarely like that. A large number of the souls here now are very highly spiritually developed, in my opinion, but we don't consciously recognise each other like that as we're humans first of all and everyone has their weaknesses, etc. So most of the time we'll say "But that person has issues with...(whatever)..and is obviously not enlightened" but I've come to realise it's not as simple as that.

Most will only be enlightened to a small degree while they're here but that doesn't really say anything about their potential and it now seems to me like practically anyone could be an incarnation of anyone. You tend to think if someone was a re-incarnation of an exceptional spiritual or historical figure that they would blow your mind and be unlike anyone else, but it's not really like that. The main point of this life is being human and playing at being human so that's what's most of the focus is on.
 
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Ninae said:
No, I was just told by my one of my favourite channels. At first I thought I was going to die of laughter, then I got a strange feeling it might be true. Let's look at some of the facts:

- Annoying like Jesus
- Had that hairstyle going for him
- Got back some of what he was owed
- Inspired the Hippie movement, the start of the modern spiritual movement
- Was born poor and made it big
- Had a way with the crowds
- Preached love and peace
- Worshipped as a Jesus figure in his own right
- Killed because he said he was bigger than God


I wonder what he saw when he did acid. "When I take acid I think I'm Jesus"?
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Interesting. One thing I wanted to mention though is that we certainly can't trust roman/western depictions of the physical look of Jesus, since they were made in the image of those who created such images. Jesus was middle eastern, I'm sure he didn't look like a white European with beautiful wavy brown hair. :)
 
I thought he was blond?

At least the contemporary descriptions of him, like the one made by Pontus Pilate to Tiberius Cæsar, describes him with blond hair and gray/blue eyes and how he stood out that way. I thought he might be like those Pakistan people with light colours and extremely radiant eyes and that it might have been used as a way for him to make an impression.

"A young man appeared in Galilee preaching with humble unction, a new law in the Name of the God that had sent Him. At first I was apprehensive that His design was to stir up the people against the Romans, but my fears were soon dispelled. Jesus of Nazareth spoke rather as a friend of the Romans than of the Jews.

One day I observed in the midst of a group of people a young man who was leaning against a tree, calmly addressing the multitude. I was told it was Jesus. This I could easily have suspected so great was the difference between Him and those who were listening to Him. His golden colored hair and beard gave to his appearance a celestial aspect. He appeared to be about 30 years of age. Never have I seen a sweeter or more serene countenance. What a contrast between Him and His bearers with their black beards and tawny complexions! Unwilling to interrupt Him by my presence, I CONTINUED my walk but signified to my secretary to join the group and listen. Later, my secretary reported that never had he seen in the works of all the philosophers anything that compared to the teachings of Jesus. He told me that Jesus was neither seditious nor rebellious, so we extended to Him our protection. He was at liberty to act, to speak, to assemble and to address the people. This unlimited freedom provoked the Jews -- not the poor but the rich and powerful.

Later, I wrote to Jesus requesting an interview with Him at the Praetorium. He came. When the Nazarene made His appearance I was having my morning walk and as I faced Him my feet seemed fastened with an iron hand to the marble pavement and I trembled in every limb as a guilty culprit, though he was calm. For some time I stood admiring this extraordinary Man. There was nothing in Him that was repelling, nor in His character, yet I felt awed in His presence. I told Him that there was a magnetic simplicity about Him and His PERSONALITY that elevated Him far above the philosophers and teachers of His day.

Now, Noble Sovereign, these are the facts concerning Jesus of Nazareth and I have taken the time to write you in detail concerning these matters. I say that such a man who could convert water into wine, change death into life, disease into health; calm the stormy seas, is not guilty of any criminal offense and as others have said, we must agree -- truly this is the Son of God.

Your most obedient servant,
Pontius Pilate"

http://www.thenazareneway.com/likeness_of_our_saviour.htm

I like that description, by the way. It gives you some idea of the kind impression he made on people rather than the bland representations made in our culture. One of the reasons he interests me is that I feel he must have been much different to that.
 
You know I found a transcription of that letter you mention in the files of my ex's dad with her one Easter day... his aunt had gone to Rome and copied it down. it was really exciting to see. However there are some things that make me wonder if it's legit... for example, the capitalization of Him and God. If he was a currently living man preaching possible dissent, and if the Romans of that time were still pagan with many gods, then why would Pilate have capitalized Him and God (or used the phrase "truly the Son of God")? It makes me think it's something someone created at some point as a false document to support Christianity.

I want it to be real though, I just have serious doubts.
 
I don't know about "The Son of God" and the whole format but there's something very strong and ingenious about that letter. I'm sure there must be lots of reports and correspondances from the time of Jesus somewhere, though, and I have a feeling they would be much more effective than the myths and fables we have been left about him if they were exposed to the general public. It would make him seem much more real and maybe give us an idea of why he made the kind of impression he did.
 
However there are some things that make me wonder if it's legit... for example, the capitalization of Him and God. If he was a currently living man preaching possible dissent, and if the Romans of that time were still pagan with many gods, then why would Pilate have capitalized Him and God (or used the phrase "truly the Son of God")? It makes me think it's something someone created at some point as a false document to support Christianity.
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It seems to me that Pilate wouldn't have written in English (what with Jesus living approx. 1600 years before anything resembling legible modern English) - thus the letter as presented is at best a translation, and hence subject to the whims and prejudices of whoever translates it.

I don't know when people started capitalizing LORD/God as proper nouns. I don't think Hebrew or Aramaic have capitalization, nor did Latin at the time? What we'd consider lowercase letters (uncial script) weren't even invented until the 4th century AD.

A much more convincing artifact would be a carbon-dated document in original Latin. Or at least a Latin text we can compare against. If Pilate had a significant body of other texts statistical analysis could help too.
 
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Ninae said:
No, I was just told by my one of my favourite channels. At first I thought I was going to die of laughter, then I got a strange feeling it might be true. Let's look at some of the facts:

- Annoying like Jesus
- Had that hairstyle going for him
- Got back some of what he was owed
- Inspired the Hippie movement, the start of the modern spiritual movement
- Was born poor and made it big
- Had a way with the crowds
- Preached love and peace
- Worshipped as a Jesus figure in his own right
- Killed because he said he was bigger than God


I wonder what he saw when he did acid. "When I take acid I think I'm Jesus"?
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Pretty much describes any number of disgraced tv evangelists over the years. Just add weird sexual kink and you have Tammy and Jim Bakker
 
I like how casually Ninae says that John Lennon is "annoying like Jesus". :D
 
Both had a way of rubbing people the wrong way, even from the grave.
 
According to Liam Gallagher, they both came back too.
 
I find George Harrison the most attractive, personally. My mother liked Paul Mc Cartney. My dad idolised Mick Jagger and didn't like the Beatles, he just admired that kind of cocky, ego-strong rockstar like most masculine men. Of all of those I like Elvis the most or is the one who seems the most spiritual to me. He had a powerful spiritual charisma and there was a healing quality to his presence and voice
 
It was all about Foghat to be honest

Foghat-SlowRide.jpg
 
Funny you mention it Ninae, I listened to one of his few interviews yesterday. It ties together every conspiracy theory I've ever heard. I was never attracted to the conspiracy theory stuff but someone I respected pointed this out to me so I gave it a listen. I give it points for integrating lots of strange theories I've heard. So anyways, here is every conspiracy theory you've ever heard tied together for those that don't want to read it in his blogs. It's very elaborate stuff.

https://youtu.be/Vmgi8IBVTOc
 
Yes, I found his blog good for memory-activation (to do with more spiritual things).
 
levelsBeyond said:
Funny you mention it Ninae, I listened to one of his few interviews yesterday. It ties together every conspiracy theory I've ever heard. I was never attracted to the conspiracy theory stuff but someone I respected pointed this out to me so I gave it a listen. I give it points for integrating lots of strange theories I've heard. So anyways, here is every conspiracy theory you've ever heard tied together for those that don't want to read it in his blogs. It's very elaborate stuff.

https://youtu.be/Vmgi8IBVTOc
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I listened to some of the blogtalk radio interview tonight. He has a lot of beautiful spiritual ideas that I agree with. But he's so feminine in his energy it's a bit hard to take it seriously?
 
Ninae said:
I listened to some of the blogtalk radio interview tonight. He has a lot of beautiful spiritual ideas that I agree with. But he's so feminine in his energy it's a bit hard to take it seriously?
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at some point you just gotta smile. He seems completely oblivious to the fact that his audience may not have a firm footing in what his disclosures imply and he just waltzes about from one topic to the next blowing peoples minds should they engage him with the seriousness such disclosures would otherwise require. From what exposure I've had he was hitting on a lot the talking points spot on. It was just... alright fine, entertain me then. Put a funky beat to it and lets do the disclosure tango.
 
LOL, yes. Very pure, but childish. Comes accross like the type who's been broken through a strict upbringing (private school type) but surely a master soul.
 
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