oxytocin

[Twistedpin-up]

I injected them, but it had nothing to do with orgasms :S and definatly was a lot more than 10mg

 

[Nibiru]

Not love in a romance/sexual relationship/monogamy context, but love in a more general context of attention and nurture. Early in development, attention from the parents helps to build the reward pathways, and oxytocin is related to dopamine release, meaning to me that loving behavior builds a properly developed reward system through hormone-mediated growth of neural pathways. The psychological link between abuse or neglect early on, which to me constitutes a lack of love, and the development of addiction later on has been well demonstrated, and addiction to me has a lot to do with triggering dopamine release, something love is supposed to do. So this makes addictions to drugs, or sex, which is the highest natural release of dopamine to my knowledge glitches in the reward system resulting from improper development. I think this phenomenon kind of illustrates the effect of love on behavior, taking the psychiatric and clinical model into account.

Now this is fairly anecdotal, but having seen people break incredibly long-standing patterns of reinforcement through adopting some sort of loving behavior in their life, I think it can be strongly argued that the behavior can influence the biochemistry as much as the biochemistry can influence the behavior, and that a person can essentially influence their own development through behavior, which in turn can influence the way they operate biochemically. I mean, you have that sort of thing happen with long-term potentiation, where learned behavior causes permanent changes in the way the brain operates electrochemically. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that behavior of fellow organisms in social animals like humans can influence the way the organism operates neurochemically, and I certainly don't think that the way an individual chooses to percieve things can't influence the way it operates down to a chemical level. Love is more of an attitude to me that can bring about a chemically-induced state, but not the state itself.

And so that's what I mean by live with love. Not being romantically in love, but making a conscious effort to love life and others. Like a hippie.

 

[Enlitx]

Not love in a romance/sexual relationship/monogamy context, but love in a more general context of attention and nurture. Early in development, attention from the parents helps to build the reward pathways, and oxytocin is related to dopamine release, meaning to me that loving behavior builds a properly developed reward system through hormone-mediated growth of neural pathways. The psychological link between abuse or neglect early on, which to me constitutes a lack of love, and the development of addiction later on has been well demonstrated, and addiction to me has a lot to do with triggering dopamine release, something love is supposed to do. So this makes addictions to drugs, or sex, which is the highest natural release of dopamine to my knowledge glitches in the reward system resulting from improper development. I think this phenomenon kind of illustrates the effect of love on behavior, taking the psychiatric and clinical model into account.

Now this is fairly anecdotal, but having seen people break incredibly long-standing patterns of reinforcement through adopting some sort of loving behavior in their life, I think it can be strongly argued that the behavior can influence the biochemistry as much as the biochemistry can influence the behavior, and that a person can essentially influence their own development through behavior, which in turn can influence the way they operate biochemically. I mean, you have that sort of thing happen with long-term potentiation, where learned behavior causes permanent changes in the way the brain operates electrochemically. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that behavior of fellow organisms in social animals like humans can influence the way the organism operates neurochemically, and I certainly don't think that the way an individual chooses to percieve things can't influence the way it operates down to a chemical level. Love is more of an attitude to me that can bring about a chemically-induced state, but not the state itself.

And so that's what I mean by live with love. Not being romantically in love, but making a conscious effort to love life and others. Like a hippie.

I agree that during developmental years certain behaviors will promote the growth of pathways and the production of certain neurotransmitters. I am concerned with what happens after the brain has fully developed. Even though the adult brain is still plastic, albeit slightly, I would think that acting in a certain way would not change the neurotransmitter pathways very much at that point in life. I would be more inclined to believe that the release of things like oxytocin need to be maintained at a certain level to stimulate reward pathways in an adequate fashion and thus drive behavior.

So, in essence, I do believe that our neurobiological makeup pretty much sets our behavior and emotions once our brain has been fully shaped and developed. I know that prolonged behavioral changes might change neurochemistry slightly (such as in CBT), but I am uneasy in adopting the hippie model . Then again, I just read a great book, The Mind & The Brain, and I am not even remotely qualified to make any definitive satements on the subject.

 

[psychedelic food]

Does anyone have any sources that say fenugreek increases oxytocin?

 

[Nibiru]

Does anyone have any sources that say fenugreek increases oxytocin?

Pretty much the same question was already asked in this thread.

I haven't been able to find anything solid at all about fenugreek and oxytocin, even on pubmed. I think at this point, it's just a theory to explain the mammary stimulating property, which there is very strong anecdotal evidence for. Some mothers absolutely swear by it.

But I hope someone does find something and posts it here!

 

[LuxEtVeritas]

^ even if it does so, which it very well may, I would postulate that it only does so in a significant manner peripherally and would be no fun at all

 

[Enlitx]

So was my biochem professor correct in stating that vasopressin is the driving neurotransmitter in males and oxytocin in females. Some posters have suggested that both sexes receive an equal amount of oxytocin except during child birth.

 

[Nibiru]

Well, fenugreek is hella fun, especially if you sprout it, but not for directly hormonal or neurochemical reasons. It's quite delicious. It makes you smell like curry, as the flavinoid sotolon from fenugreek smells kind of like curry, and likes to leave the body unchanged through sweat and urine.

I'm not really interested in psychoactivity on this one anyway. I'm interested in what's behind the galactagogue (milk stimulating) property.

 

[Nibiru]

So was my biochem professor correct in stating that vasopressin is the driving neurotransmitter in males and oxytocin in females. Some posters have suggested that both sexes receive an equal amount of oxytocin except during child birth.

Oxytocin and vasopressin are very similar molecules, and have functions in both males and females. Vasopressin is thought to have more to do with sexual behavior in males than oxytocin does in females, but they both play a role in a whole bunch of endocrine (and behavioral) functions in both sexes, that aren't super well known. I've read a theory somewhere regarding vasopressin and oxytocin having a sort of modulatory effect on eachother.

 

[PsychedelicPeptide]

So was my biochem professor correct in stating that vasopressin is the driving neurotransmitter in males and oxytocin in females.

I don't think the biochemical proof exists yet to say this is the way it is in humans. Translating prairie vole research into humans probably isn't a direct ticket. That's not to say there isn't overlap, but our emotional behavior is very complex.

I would agree most along the lines of the posts here saying that they are both important, but quantifying or qualitating one into being more important than the other is not advisable. You could probably argue that other hormones such as testosterone/estrogen are more relevant to mating behavior than peptides such as oxytocin. The same could also probably be done for serotonin given the results we have seen for prozac and other SSRIs in dampening peoples sex drives.

So in effect, if I were in this class, you may have seen a long, drawn out argument against whatever the Prof said- pending what kind of mood I was in and if I was paying attention or not. =P

 

[Enlitx]

I didn't state that clearly. My professor said that within the direct behavioral models that have already been tied into oxytocin/vasopressin (the same behavior being driven by both chemicals), you mainly see vasopressin doing the work in males and oxytocin in females.

 

[vinylmesh]

Check out the wikipeida page on oxytocin receptors, it contains a picture and VERY limited information about an oxytocin agonist .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin_receptor#Ligands

yes as noted 5HT1a agonists including MDMA and many of its analogues as well as others mostly less well known and fairly obscure

Buspirone?

I know it's not supposed to be very good on it's own but people always claim drugs that only affect serotonin to be useless. However, people always claimed bzp was much better with tfmpp and i've found some reports on erowid that suggest that 5-htp can seriously augment the amphetamine experience (note that higher than normal levels of both serotonin and dopamine may cause neurotoxicity, i wouldn't recommend this one).

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=31717

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=53841

Basically, serotonin might feel useless on it's own but throw in lots of dopamine and the party kicks off (the overall effect being greater than the sum of it's parts).

Now 5-htp might not have enough of an effect on the 5-ht1a receptor as we'd like (there's gonna be nowhere near as much serotonin going around as with mdma) but with a 5-ht1a agonist like buspirone we'd be sure of 5-ht1a binding.

If the 5-ht1a --> oxytocin theory is true (and adjusting for the possible need for dopamine) then surely amphetamine + buspirone would give you an mdma-like experience.

btw, i'm not suggesting anyone try this, i don't want to be held responsible if it causes some sort of freaky reaction in the body and the person dies !