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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Oxycodone Metabolized To Oxymorphone?

This prolly a stupid question, but I think 7-oh is an oxidation of mit ? Could just leaving it out in the air for a while make that change, or maybe soaking in hydrogen peroxide, obviously I have no real knowledge of chemistry just enough to make extracts
 
There are a few structural characteristics which define whether a morphinian is going to be (significantly) active by itself or not. in the case of oxycodone it's due to having a carbonyl group at C6 + a simple (saturated) bond between C7-C8 + a hydroxy group at C14 (codeine has neither of those things). All of which seem to increase activity in a very big way.

So a "blocked" hydroxy group (phenol) at carbon n°3 doesn't automatically kill the activity, it just decreases it. But it does have a pretty big advantage as well: it usually makes the drug more orally bioavailable.
This may be one of the reasons why doctors tend to prefer codeine, hydrocodone and oxycodone over morphine, hydromorphone and oxymorphone (but it's mostly due to the fact that they're perceived as being less "abusable").
In the case of heroin, the acetyl group does "block" the phenol as well, which actually makes the drug almost completely inactive (but also more lipophilic). However, that particular ester group gets broken down very quickly upon entering the body, so heroin ends up being a very effective pro-drug for 6-monoacetylmorphine which is a potent opioid.

I made a quick summary of the main structural things that tend to modulate the opioid-like activity of those drugs. Obviously it isn't 100% complete and there are exceptions.
Green= increases activity
Red= decreases activity
morphinians-SAR.png


F1.large.jpg
Great read, opioid chemistry and pharmacology is so underappreciated, I really wish there was a book like PiHKAL but for opioids
 
This prolly a stupid question, but I think 7-oh is an oxidation of mit ? Could just leaving it out in the air for a while make that change, or maybe soaking in hydrogen peroxide, obviously I have no real knowledge of chemistry just enough to make extracts
No way, the whole molecule is so reactive something as "crude" as hydrogen peroxide would widely disrupt the molecule
 
I "liked" the explanation out of sheer appreciation for people learning and understand pharmacology , not cause I understand. I hope I will in few years. Will start to learn more about biology/chemistry/pharmacology.
 
I "liked" the explanation out of sheer appreciation for people learning and understand pharmacology , not cause I understand. I hope I will in few years. Will start to learn more about biology/chemistry/pharmacology.
I flipped the picture and added some info. Hope it makes it easier to read and understand when comparing it to the examples bellow.
morphi-sar.jpg


F1.large.jpg

The reason why each of those modifications increases or decreases opioid activity is a bit more difficult to explain, one would have to look at the 3D structure of the mu opioid receptors (for starters).
 
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Thank you for your effort @4meSM it is not all completely foreign language. But if yoe were to ask me (to flip it a bit):

"What changes, considering morphenians overall, in the case of oxycodone, having a carbonyl group at C6 + a simple (saturated) bond between C7-C8 + a hydroxy group at C14 brins about?"

I would have to say that I understand what is morpheninan, oxycodone, have heard nany other terms but if you would press me hard I would not understand the answer even if I gave correct one.

I never studied chemistry and understanding pharmacology requires more than reading wiki and scirntific articles here and there. But I am interested in learning and am sourcing for good books for beginners in pharmacology. You are explaining chemistry which I unfortunately didn't learn at all. But thank you anyways. :)

Edit - @4meSM you have inspired me to start learning chemistry faster than it was planned (am not going to college I will do it cause I am interested). Pharmacology that is without chemistry is like a little more advanced info leaflet that comes with medication pack. But I can't rush it or say I understand what I don't.
 
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Wow, I just looked up a 3D mu receptor, that shits crazy, how people understand how that shit works is beyond me
Yeah it's complicated stuff, you go step by step (I'm definitely not an expert on opioid receptors either). But the way people figured out that oxymorphone is stronger than codeine or morphine is basically through trial and error, you modify the molecule bit by bit and test it to see what happened after each modification.
It's very hard to get the structure of a receptor (it's a very recent thing), the people who invented pretty much every single popular opioid didn't have access to that.

Here is the structure of MOR interacting with an antagonist. In picture C you can kinda see how each part of the molecule interacts with the main amino acids at the binding site (a receptor is a protein and proteins are made of a bunch of amino acids bound together) .
When you ingest morphine, it gets distributed all over the body, but some of it arrives at the MOR and interacts with the amino acids depicted bellow. It (morphine) makes them move in a particular way, and that movement ends up creating a "chain reaction" which turns on the receptor.
An antagonist will be able to get to the same binding site but it wont make the aminoacids move in the same way, so it will "stick" to the receptor but it won't turn it on.

nihms356247f3.jpg

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22437502/

@Sunyecho
"What changes, considering morphenians overall, in the case of oxycodone, having a carbonyl group at C6 + a simple (saturated) bond between C7-C8 + a hydroxy group at C14 brins about?"
Those things allow the molecule to bind to the receptor much better than a molecule which doesn't have those characteristics.
how+drugs+work.gif

Look at morphine vs oxymorphone, the latter is much stronger than the former.
Now look at codeine (which is morphine with a OCH3 group on carbon n°3) vs oxycodone (which is oxymorphone with a OCH3 group on carbon n°3). That methoxy group (OCH3) makes both of those drugs considerably weaker. In the case of codeine it loses so much potency that it ends up being inactive, and oxycodone also loses a lot of potency compared to oxymorphone but it still retains some activity.

So oxycodone is able to "overcome" the loss of activity caused by the OCH3 group due to having a more favorable structure. Something like that.
 
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Thank you for the lesson @4meSM. :) My knowledge is very unevenly balanced. I used internet and watched Robert Sapolskys neuroscience classes that Stanford made available on YouTube. So I learned a bit about CNS, neurons, how they fire, communicate, how neurotransmitters (or other molecules) bind to receptor sites. I have really basic level of pharmacology understanding (without chemistry that is needed to really understand it, as I said). Also have some notion about agonists/partial agonists/antagonists of target site being charged in a way that they are more or less pulled/repelled by receptors, so chemistry is actually electrical/magnetical in nature. Not to make it unnecessary long - I understand some things that are more complex and yet don't have basics at the same time. That's why, just yesterday I started to read a book "Nursing pharmacology" which seems like a light, but very needed read if I'm gonna go all the way to gain more functional knowledge. I give myself 10 years as I will study on my own (don't have money for college, even though in Croatia it is much cheaper than in USA). I'll try to create some more direct way to actually understand psychopharmacology on "bachelor's level". Not to get employed in that area but cause I find it very interesting. I will need a lab for chemistry but I will make one when I get on the level where lab is actually needed. Thank you for explaining. This last post was more "on my level". :)

Edit - as I read more this book "Nurse Pharmacology" seems a wate of time. Need to learn more biology/neuroscience for start but what I essentially lack is chemistry knowledge. I will start there.
 
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