Overdose victim thought pills were 'fun'

[KraZeeY]

Gemma Geraldine Thoms was described by her best friend as a "fun, bubbly and outgoing" 17-year-old who dreamt of becoming a hairdresser before she overdosed on ecstasy at Perth's Big Day Out festival.


West Australian coroner Dominic Mulligan is investigating the circumstances surrounding Gemma's death, including why she was released back into the crowd after visiting a first-aid post - and whether St John Ambulance volunteers were qualified to treat her.
The court heard Gemma was given tickets to the Big Day Out on February 1, 2009, for her 17th birthday and attended the event with her best friend, Cassandra Southern.
Gemma obtained five pills, coloured green with a heart on them, and she and Ms Southern took one each before heading to the concert.
Ms Southern testified on Monday that she and Gemma would take ecstasy on special occasions like New Year's Eve and birthdays because it was a "fun thing to do".
Gemma's mother drove the girls to the concert and reminded them to drink water and apply sunscreen because it was very hot, Ms Southern said.
She said they were very excited about going to their first major concert.
Gemma took two more tablets when they arrived and gave the last one to Ms Southern because they feared the pills could be confiscated if police dogs were present.
"I told her not to, but she swallowed the pills anyway," Ms Southern said, reading from her statement.
She said neither of them had ever taken more than two pills at a time before and she didn't think it was a good idea for Gemma to take three.
She said she was also annoyed that Gemma had taken the extra pill because they were supposed to share it.
When Gemma entered the venue, she was given a wristband that allowed her into areas where alcohol was available because she had changed the date of birth on her driver's licence, Ms Southern said.
Ms Southern was given a stamp on her hand to indicate she was underage, but she rubbed it off and was also given a wristband, she said.
Counsel assisting the coroner, Kate Ellson, said in her opening address that Gemma was escorted to a first-aid room when her teeth began to chatter and she looked sick.
Two volunteer first-aid staff, a first-aid officer and a cadet attended to her, but she did not give her real name or age, Ms Ellson said.
Gemma said she had taken one "dexi" amphetamine tablet and it was determined she was flushed and looked hot.
After going on an amusement ride, Gemma collapsed and began to convulse as she was rushed again to a first-aid tent, Ms Ellson said.
With her lips and fingertips blue, an ambulance rushed Gemma to Sir Charles Gardiner Hospital, but she died the following day.
A lawyer for the event organisers told the court that Gemma had lied about her age, prompting Mr Mulligan to reply: "Minors need to be protected from minors."
The inquest continues

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/01/21/17/01/wa-festival-overdose-victim-took-3-pills

 

[KraZeeY]

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/festival-overdose-victim-took-three-pills-20130121-2d2pe.html

 

[Hektissity]

Is the contents of the pill known?

 

[spacejunk]

"Minors need to be protected from minors."

how would not being a minor have made any difference, i wonder?
she took a high dose of a drug that is not regulated for dosage, purity or quality because of prohibition.
this is a sad story, and i'm surprised it has taken so long for the inquest.

 

[mister]

The story I read mentioned green hearts which were rated as having a high MDMA content. Necking multiple pills before entering festivals as a way of avoiding detection by dogs and police is common among punters these days. The war on drugs claims another life.

 

[spacejunk]

^ yet i note the presence of police with dogs at the event is not in the scope of the coroner's investigation;

Issues to be explored at the inquest:
Why was Gemma released back into the crowd after her visit to a first aid post and was it appropriate?
Would it have made a difference to her treatment if Gemma had been correctly identified as a minor when she arrived at the event?
Were St John Ambulance volunteer officers trained in recognising symptoms of a drug overdose?
Should qualified ambulance paramedics be required to attend large concerts and events?
Were the Health Department's guidelines for concerts applied by managers of the event and if so, to what extent?


Read more: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/f...three-pills-20130121-2d2pe.html#ixzz2IboiXChy

 

[Jakeperson]

how would not being a minor have made any difference, i wonder?
she took a high dose of a drug that is not regulated for dosage, purity or quality because of prohibition.
this is a sad story, and i'm surprised it has taken so long for the inquest.

People that have been double dropping for years are less likely to take 3? Wait..

 

[spacejunk]

i hate to pre-empt the coroner's results, but i imagine a bit of HR knowledge could very easily have saved this poor girl's life.
sure, people learn from experience, but they also learn from other information sources too.
i guess she thought being caught with 3 pills as a minor would ruin her life...?
it's a depressing situation.

 

[thestudent14]

I suspect the green hearts were from this report done by Seith (R.I.P), January 2009
http://www.pillreports.com/index.php?page=display_pill&id=14148

They were reviewed by alot of people as MDMA high.

When I hear of people dying off a couple of MDMA pills it always make me re-think my views towards legalisation. Don't get me wrong I still think Legalisation of MDMA needs to happen eventually and is what country's need to do. But when OD's can happen so suddenly to some unfortunate people makes me wonder how bad it might actually back fire.

 

[spacejunk]

it was a hot day, she'd just been on an amusement ride, and was in the middle of a large crowd.
sure, she may have overdosed, but she may also have overheated or dehydrated, causing the seizure that killed her. again, i don't wish to speculate, but it is ignorance (of basic MDxx safety precautions - on top of the unknown content and purity of the pill/s in question) that generally lead to these tragic outcomes.
she was underage, but you don't need to show ID to buy MDMA in this country. i first took it at 15.

the targeting of drug users by police and sniffer dogs at a music festival only increases the risk posed to the public by drugs; if they were legal and users had all the facts openly presented to them (as opposed to through networks of drug enthusiasts like bluelight) they would be able to make an informed choice - such as, the bottle (which indicates the active ingredients and the dosages contained within) says not to take more than 1 or 2 tablets, that any more than xxx mg is unsafe, etc.
as it stands, officially sanctioned "drug information" is biased, often directed at parents of adolescents (they vote, right?) and provides precious little actual harm reduction advice. often more abut how to spot a person who is using the substance in question. just say no. oh, and it's made in toilets, etc etc etc. 8(

my understanding is that police drug-sniffing dogs had not been present at a perth BDO previously. i could be wrong about this, but i'd never seen them - and it seems to fit with the ethos of the conservative barnett government that was elected 3 or 4 months before the 2009 big day out; a dinosaur 'tough on drugs' regime if ever there was one.

i should get off my freakin' soapbox - but at no point have wa police shown any remorse for their part in this.
instead they used it to their PR "drugs are deadly" propaganda, which is pretty sickening IMO.
people shouldnt die for fear of a minor drug possession rap. it goes strictly against decades of HR-focussed policy in Australian states and territories, and seeks to blame drug users rather than help or support them.

nearly four years on, i'm sure her poor friends and family are still grieving for their loss.

while harm reduction is the personal responsibility of the individual - it is also up to all of us who are "informed" enough to notice people engaging in (potentially - or blatant) unsafe drug use to look out for our friends, family and acquaintances; and to - without preaching - try to make sure they think about the risk to their health - or life - that presents itself their recklessness.
to me, this inquest and its limited frame of investigation seems to embody all that is cold and heartless about drug prohibition. a child died due to unworkable drug laws, and the attention is turned on the medics at the scene (whom she apparently lied to, probably because she feared getting in trouble - and it cost the poor girl her life).

we all have our moments of lapsed judgement - i'm certainly no stranger to regret or feelings of "that was close..." when it comes to drug use - but the better informed everyone is, the less material the anti-drug thugs like the WA premier and police commissioner have to work with.

 

[Hektissity]

I remember not all that long ago there was stuff on the news about legalizing drug possession (obviously only in small personal use amounts) but not manufacture or dealing. Even just that could nearly eliminate problems like this and combined that with pill testing at festivals, raves and clubs and I'd say alot of unnecessary deaths would be avoided. But ofcourse that went no where and the government did not have much to say about it. Such a shame it would've been a great step in the right direction

 

[the_ketaman]

This is really sad and unfortunately so many people around here would be willing to do that... The diference being most of them are pill-heads and have a tolerance. I feel sorry for the parents, family and friends and I hope that it teaches people not to do this. It hasnt happened in awhile so hopefully it keeps it fresh in peoples minds.

 

[Sonny Jim]

there are so many dodgy pills around and so many potentailly deadly (in 1-2 pill dose range).

i had one a couple of weeks ago that felt so goddamn poisonous, i know it could have hurt a smaller sized person. felt like was burning up and i was (no thermometer sorry) burning up something shocking. had to get ice pack out of freezer and just lie down with them melting on me.

really hard core cardio-vascular effects as well, with the racing heartbeat. Dripping with sweat, powerful waves of yucky poison rushes that made me throw up often.

very short lived.

if i was was some drunk kid at the bdo i would have been toast.

 

[thestudent14]

I remember not all that long ago there was stuff on the news about legalizing drug possession (obviously only in small personal use amounts) but not manufacture or dealing. Even just that could nearly eliminate problems like this and combined that with pill testing at festivals, raves and clubs and I'd say alot of unnecessary deaths would be avoided. But ofcourse that went no where and the government did not have much to say about it. Such a shame it would've been a great step in the right direction

You're referring to decriminilasation. It definitely has some merit, but my greatest fear with making it a non-criminal issue for the individual, would most likely make sale of illegal pills go up significantly without dealing with the more important (in my opinion) issue that is Resarch Chemicals being passed off as "Ecstasy" that are very often much more dangerous. For this reason I think decriminalisation can only work for plant drugs such as Cannabis and Magic Mushrooms, but would be destined to fail for Synthetic Drugs.

 

[thestudent14]

a child died due to unworkable drug laws

I couldn't agree more, but this still has to be weighed up against the amount of children that could potentially die in a legal system. My prediction is that initially there would be a large spike in Ecstasy OD's and Deaths, but after 3-5 years I think people would get the message that drugs need to be treated with respect and then we would end up with less problems then we have now. Also I suspect the amount of violence in the streets would significantly decrease. I'd go into detail about my thoughts on all this, but I'm not in the mood to write a huge post that would only partially be on topic of this thread. Perhaps I should write a blog entry some time soon 8)

 

[spacejunk]

^ i guess the point i'm trying to make is that if young people knew how to take drugs safely - ie the sorts of information we pride ourselves on making available at bluelight - this might not be such an issue.
yes, many people in their early years feel invincible - but maybe a couple of hundred mics of LSD will teach them to respect drugs and tread carefully.
it's really not that radical a concept. people are idiots with alcohol, but it has a sort of self-limiting vomit mechanism; most people would projectile vomit before dying of alcohol poisoning. same with a few other commonly used drugs.

but this girl unfortunately didn't take a couple of simple steps to stay safe, such as watch her body temperature - or be honest with an ambo in the incident of an OD.
how many MDMA ODs actually take place? i'd imagine less than the media make out, with all this "ecstasy" nonsense.
when PMA kills someone, the media scream "killer ecstasy!" and so on.
if you knew the dosage of your pills, and the sort of (life saving) safety information disseminated on bluelight were to become mainstream (not the bastion of online drug nerds), MDMA would become a whole lot safer.
don't get me wrong - MDxx isn't really my preferred drug, and i agree it carries risks - but these are almost negligible in a regulated market, with all health precautions being well studied and made widely and openly available.
it's not even legal for groups to do pill testing in raves in australia. it is that kind of reactionary stance of the authorities - like sniffer dogs at festivals - that increases risk to otherwise law abiding, non-violent citizens.

 

[poledriver]

Yeah, i think the death rate wouldn't really climb if it was legalised, sure some people will always take too much of anything and risk their lives, but if the product was always clean of nasty other drugs and a set dose (not mega high and not really low either, like some pills are now, sometimes leading to an OD) then people would know that 1, or 2 pills would do the job etc. The product would have packaging that had warnings and HR info on it and incase of emergency call 000 etc. This drug is for over 18's only and things like that. And you could only buy a max of two a day or something, having to show ID and have it recorded.

I think the most at risk age would be younger kids than 18 in the 14-18 year range who got their hands on it illegally, just like some do with alcohol and tobacco products now. In my case I wouldnt buy much of it at all, maybe a few times a year, I'd feel alot safer than that the shit out there now and wouldnt have to test everything before having it.

I don't see this ever happening tho sadly. Not here, not anywhere.

But I agree that violence would probably go down... This is in todays paper -

Violence, booze a nation's shame as police prepare for Australia Day assaults

AUSTRALIA is earning itself a reputation for violence and drinking to excess because young people can't handle their booze, experts have warned.

It comes as police gear up for a spike in violent assaults on Australia Day.

Our day of national pride is second only to New Year's when it comes to the number of punches thrown by goons.

Last year 109 assaults were reported to police on Australia Day and 122 were reported on the same day in 2011.

Deputy Commissioner Tim Cartwright said the figures were an alarming revelation for a day that was supposed to be one of our proudest.

Cont-

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...lia-day-assaults/story-fneuzlbd-1226559588345

 

[Sustanon]

I couldn't agree more, but this still has to be weighed up against the amount of children that could potentially die in a legal system. My prediction is that initially there would be a large spike in Ecstasy OD's and Deaths, but after 3-5 years I think people would get the message that drugs need to be treated with respect and then we would end up with less problems then we have now. Also I suspect the amount of violence in the streets would significantly decrease. I'd go into detail about my thoughts on all this, but I'm not in the mood to write a huge post that would only partially be on topic of this thread. Perhaps I should write a blog entry some time soon 8)

The violence wont ever stop man, ull have people robbing and stealing just to buy MDMA then. Im all for decriminilasation but itd still happen unfortunately:S I still cant get my head around why they chose alcohol to be the legal drug available for everyone instead of something a lot less dangerous?

 

[RedRum OG]

@thestudent14 @sustanon

^man if your post is serious..... If Molly was legal it would magically turn its users into raving junkies with no problem committing serious crimes? Why? Also Last time I checked alcohol was much more addicting, dangerous, and probable to lead to violent and criminal behavior.

Anyways

Police and harsh penalties scare child into last resort, taking rest of drugs to hide them, serious health problems ensue

Moral of the story: drugs are bad, Mmmkay?

 

[Polluted_Mind]

EDIT: I just noticed in the original report that she told first-aid staff that she had taken a dexamphetamine tablet.... so there are two possibilies: she was scared about admitting taking ecstasy OR she did indeed take dexamphetamine on the side... which would put the risk of OD up significantly. Only reason I mention this is that seriously like 99% of the time people get into trouble with drugs is by mixing them...

Anyway, sounds like top-notch gear, will have to keep an eye out for them.

Pretty freaky though as I remember being only 18 and taking like 4 pills in a night, sometimes not remembering much the next day.

So yea lucky I never ended up in medical trouble like this lass.

Nowadays (I'm 25), triple dropping even without any tolerance isn't even much of a big deal, can still stay coherent.

That's why I think these could be exceptionally good pingers (like the green mitsubishis that were in Melbourne ~2005 that were so strong the police actually put out a warning about them).