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Society cannot function if a minority is allowed to take without giving back to society.
America has far, far more than it needs to function in terms of food, housing, and resources. We dump plenty of money into the military and police that isn’t exactly doing a whole lot for your average American relative to their incredibly excessively funding.
 
America has far, far more than it needs to function in terms of food, housing, and resources. We dump plenty of money into the military and police that isn’t exactly doing a whole lot for your average American relative to their incredibly excessively funding.
I'm not American. And I don't see how the fact that America spends far too much on war, has anything to do with the fact that America also has drug, homeless and mental health issues (same as Canada).


Other countries like Canada and the UK don't spend so much on defense and have the same issues. It's a good idea to view issues from a broader perspective and not just through the lens of your nation, it's kinda like sticking your head up your own ass and thinking the whole world smells like farts.
 
I'm not American. And I don't see how the fact that America spends far too much on war, has anything to do with the fact that America also has drug, homeless and mental health issues (same as Canada).


Other countries like Canada and the UK don't spend so much on defense and have the same issues. It's a good idea to view issues from a broader perspective and not just through the lens of your nation, it's kinda like sticking your head up your own ass and thinking the whole world smells like farts.
I think you'd make a great US politician, you should come over here and run for office. You can take notes from Duterte and Trump
 
Other countries like Canada and the UK don't spend so much on defense and have the same issues. It's a good idea to view issues from a broader perspective and not just through the lens of your nation, it's kinda like sticking your head up your own ass and thinking the whole world smells like farts.
My point is that junkies needing ER services are not the greatest drain on society. I don’t think that paramedics narcanning people is anywhere near the top of the list on our budget chopping block when most countries have some/all of: corruption, corporate subsidies, excessive military, severely overmilitarized and overfunded police forces, etc.

The trauma and abuse that drives people to suffering and unproductivity, a large subset of them to mental illness, and a decent subset of them to substance use is a large drain on our society.

And it is far more efficient for us to keep these people alive, get them therapy and treatment (Has anyone seen the MDMA-assisted therapy study results from the numerous MAPS studies touting 60-70% PTSD remission rates after 12 months?), get the ones suffering from drug addiction treatment for that as well along the way, and get them to be functioning members of society. And most importantly, turn them into happy humans who are content with their lives and striving to make the world a better place.

It is ludicrous to suggest that if we don’t force drug users to volunteer cleaning up trash that they are somehow a massive drain on society. It is ridiculous to have the paramedics search them for an ‘Overdose Insurance Volunteer Hour Log’ card as they are asphyxiating and then only revive them if enough hours are on there.

Taking the time to set up a system this stupid is a drain on our resources. If you care that much about taking time away from paramedics, advocate for safe injection/harm reduction sites and free drug testing labs that have both been saving countless lives in Canada and other countries.
 
Low ROI (not greatest drain), and therefore low priority when triaging.
If we have to start choosing whose live is worth saving, then the solution is not to let some people die but to increase funding for ambulance services, hospitals, healthcare workers, mental health services, harm reduction projects, etc.

Any big city in the US or Canada (both countries with massive overdose crises and incredibly overfunded police forces) would be far better throwing an extra 100 million of the billions they pump into their corrupt police forces into harm reduction and healthcare funding.
 
Consider this

a lot of health conditions have some elements personal responsibility you are just singling out drug addiction because it’s socially acceptable to do so

if someone has a heart attack but ate unhealthy and didn’t exercise even when their dr told them too, didn’t take their medications properly and kept gaining weight

someone who has cancer and they smoked their whole life

someone who has type 2 diabetes and had an addiction to sweets and fast food and couldn’t stop eating even after the dr warned them that they were pre-diabetic and that there was time to stop themselves from getting diabetes but they didn’t

why are those people more worthy of getting care then an addict? all of those people above are addicted the difference is they are addicted to only socially acceptable things
This is also a brilliant point.
How many people do we see who keep gaining weight, eating like shit and not exercising, refusing to get vaccinated / take medications in the face of recurring health problems?

Is the solution to let all of these people die, or to save them even if they didn’t make the best choices with their lives?

I must’ve forgotten the part of the hippocratic oath where you only save someone if you agree with their life choices.
 
This is also a brilliant point.
How many people do we see who keep gaining weight, eating like shit and not exercising, refusing to get vaccinated / take medications in the face of recurring health problems?

Is the solution to let all of these people die, or to save them even if they didn’t make the best choices with their lives?

I must’ve forgotten the part of the hippocratic oath where you only save someone if you agree with their life choices.
DONT GET ME STARTED ON FAT PEOPLE.

(no healthcare until their BMI is healthy)
 
DONT GET ME STARTED ON FAT PEOPLE.

(no healthcare until their BMI is healthy)
Fat people work jobs and pay taxes too.
Just look at America, overweight and obese people make up the majority of the population. They even had an overweight guy as their last President!

Can you explain why it is somehow a better idea to let all of these people die than to just increase healthcare and emergency services funding?

Isn’t protecting life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness the stated purpose of the government that was the model for virtually all Western countries?
 
DONT GET ME STARTED ON FAT PEOPLE.

(no healthcare until their BMI is healthy)
Maybe you're already a high ranking US politician and that's why our health insurance situation is fucked.

I understand the utilitarian angle, I used to buy into it myself. People slip up, but they can recover and be of great benefit to society for their suffering. If we allowed the presently weak to die off we wouldn't be getting rid of a drain to society, we would be enabling a society where no one is allowed to be off guard. It all breeds paranoia and crimes against humanity
 
A cursory Google search shows an addiction treatment organization showing that over 70% of people with a substance abuse disorder have jobs. While this does not separate out opioid addicts, it also only is measuring addicts who have gotten bad enough in their addictions to have sought, or been forced into, treatment. Lots of people hooked on opioids who work.

So, addicts "taking while not giving back to society" is but one of the many faulty premises at the base of this argument.

The previously mentioned fact that many people use the medical system more than others for conditions they have some control over is yet another.

Who's to decide who is "worthy" of being saved assclass? You? Who decides their level of culpability in your little plan? Is a diabetic a diabetic because of genetics, or bad habits? To what degree of each?

Same with addiction. Genetic? Some sort of weakness you perceive?

We could just have a master race where only the strong are allowed to survive, I guess. The Nazis hated Communists too.
 
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