Misc Opioids vs Benzos for panic attacks

[Preytor]

Was wondering in the long term what would be a better solution for panic attacks. Been getting them through the years but past few months due to personal and work reasons outside my control, the anxiety has just been messing me up fucking daily. I just feel like besides wrecking me mentally, the genuine strain it's putting my body through is without a doubt worse than what either opioids or benzos would do to me, and I don't want no SSRI shit.

I work out eat well do all the good things. Just can't sleep and hurt in my chest feeling like I'm going to have a heart attack most days when I wake up, and the days I don't feel so anxious, I'm just exhausted and depressed from the rollercoster.

I can obviously get prescribed benzos quite easily with my symptoms if I go to psychiatrist(clean medical record) and I know how to extract pure morphine from poppies. I have never been addicted to either and haven't taken either for years, but I was addicted to alcohol before and was drinking bottle of whiskey a day.

For five years now I have only been drinking a reasonable two to four beers, maybe once a month or so. Really keeping it under control. But because of my current situation I stopped drinking recreationally at the start of the year, and drink only to calm things down if I've had attacks too many days in a row. This ends up being roughly once every two weeks. Obviously that's very light drinking, but I feel uneasy going down that path with alcohol again as there are better and healthier chemical solutions.

So yeah basically my thought process between benzos or opioids is that benzos do neurological damage, their sudden withdrawal may cause death, they work on same receptors as alcohol which way reduce their effect on me, and in general there's immense stigma around opioids even if in the past they were used anxiolytically in medicine. I don't know maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but I'd rather be dependant on morphine than benzos but want to hear some more well-informed opinions.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

I have PTSD and been legally prescribed alprazolam for my panic attacks ; I've also self-medicated with opiates in the past.

Personally, both work, the thing is how regular do you get the attacks and with what frequency would you have to resort to medication. Alprazolam worked great for me because I only took it as needed, and that was infrequent enough that there was no chance of developing a physical dependence.
I'd be more wary of benzo dependence than opiate dependence on the one hand, on the other the overall risk is greater with opiates (unless you have access to diverted pharma stuff). If you know how to extract M however you'd be safe in that regard. So in your case I'd say it's a toss-up. I'd go for whichever seems to do the job better after trying both.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

AS a non sufferer of panic attack's giving a good opinion on this is hard. But a visit to the dentist, which I was/ am traumatized by as kid, gives what probably resembles panic attack's. They start mostly on the day of but are preceded by living to that moment.

Last time i had a real big job done on my teeth I was under influence of Kratom, Methoxetamine and Etizolam. My excuse for this excess of drugs is the fight I had to undergo from my wife just before leaving. ATT i was benzo naive. The other 2 were on my daily menu next to Cannabis.

So which one helped the most. The Etizolam, but I took way to many, as I had no clue what to feel and no care due to the fight/ flight response my ex created. I was granted most relaxed client ever by the dentist and her assistent. I did tell them I took to many blue pill's by accident, and they were super relaxed about it, they noticed my mouth was blue colored from taken the last one sublingual.
After the treatment I bought a set of goodies from the bakkery for the whole dentistry for the excellent professional removal of my Amalgaan fillings. They used a special technique

Somehow I even got home in this state of amnesia, this dentist was not my regular one, but a special one miles away. I had to retrace what I did true receit's and travel history. Then got out of the sub coursed my way through a 1/4 meter of snow with great pleasure. Just to come home were my ex picked up where she was when I left. Treathening to call a ambulance. I was happy when I came in but uninhibited.

So if you can restrain yourself for panic-attack's and take as needed, a benzo ime is superiour. For pain Opoid's and/ or Dissociatives rule. To bad Pregabalin takes at least 1 1/2 hours to kick in, other wise it would also be a good and maybe safer/ less habit forming solution.

 

[fairnymph]

Benzos for sure are most effective at treating a panic attack in progress, ideally short-acting, non-sedating ones like Xanax, Ativan (gold standard imo), or etizolam.

Opioids might be more a better solution for preventing PAs from occurring, but you don’t want to become dependent on them.

Yes, opiates are nontoxic (most synthetic opioids ARE toxic) & can be safely taken continuously, even long term, but such use will effect substantial changes to the body. You’ll stop producing your own endogenous endorphins, & adrenal and testosterone hormone production will be suppressed.

Not everyone experiences withdrawal from all benzos; a significant proportion of people do not, including myself, though I’ve only taken Valium regularly for months at a time. How are your alcohol withdrawals? I’ve been taking an average of 10 mg diazepam daily for over 14 years, though I do take breaks a few times a year to reduce my tolerance. I take it for muscle tension, but I highly doubt I’d have a panic attack on it. That said, it’s not nearly as effective as Ativan (lorazepam) for PAs & I do occasionally take one of those when I’m stressed enough - to treat shaking hands - but this is only ever is an issue when I‘m smoking crack (even with diaz + h in my system).

I’ve been on heroin consistently since 2010 as well, for pain - also with regular breaks to reduce tolerance - & that certainly helps reduce anxiety too. But not as much as the diazepam. And the long term effects of h use are pretty awful; the lowered hormone levels (though I’ve found ways to partially trea that by taking bioidentical hormones), the severe lack of motivation, constant sedation/chronic low-grade fatigue, permanent brain fog and impaired memory (which is more due to the opiate than benzo, the latter certainly doesn’t help but it‘s minor compared to the effect of former). I worry about my sleep because I don’t get enough REM sleep and dream as much as I should, let alone recall my dreams. But that is the only aspect of my benzo use that I’m remotely concerned about, and I don’t sleep at all because of pain without it, so it is the lesser of evils.

Back to your situation, I don’t recommend long term use of either drug class. But you could try alternating them. When my chronic pain first started, I rotated between morphine one day/night, diazepam the next, & nothing the third. As a result, I avoided becoming dependent on or developing a tolerance to either drug and was able to use both without raising my dose for over three months. Unfortunately, my pain escalated quickly thereafter. But, you might try a similar approach with the benzo of your choice. I’d use your time medicated to do cognitive behavioural therapy to treat the root cause of your anxiety. I did several years of CBT, on my own, technique based on a good book written by a psychiatrist, while on Prozac, to permanently overcome the worst of my OCD traits.

 

[Jen X]

Benzos for sure are most effective at treating a panic attack in progress, ideally short-acting, non-sedating ones like Xanax, Ativan (gold standard imo), or etizolam.

Opioids might be more a better solution for preventing PAs from occurring, but you don’t want to become dependent on them.

Yes, opiates are nontoxic (most synthetic opioids ARE toxic) & can be safely taken continuously, even long term, but such use will effect substantial changes to the body. You’ll stop producing your own endogenous endorphins, & adrenal and testosterone hormone production will be suppressed.

Not everyone experiences withdrawal from all benzos; a significant proportion of people do not, including myself, though I’ve only taken Valium regularly for months at a time. How are your alcohol withdrawals? I’ve been taking an average of 10 mg diazepam daily for over 14 years, though I do take breaks a few times a year to reduce my tolerance. I take it for muscle tension, but I highly doubt I’d have a panic attack on it. That said, it’s not nearly as effective as Ativan (lorazepam) for PAs & I do occasionally take one of those when I’m stressed enough - to treat shaking hands - but this is only ever is an issue when I‘m smoking crack (even with diaz + h in my system).

I’ve been on heroin consistently since 2010 as well, for pain - also with regular breaks to reduce tolerance - & that certainly helps reduce anxiety too. But not as much as the diazepam. And the long term effects of h use are pretty awful; the lowered hormone levels (though I’ve found ways to partially trea that by taking bioidentical hormones), the severe lack of motivation, constant sedation/chronic low-grade fatigue, permanent brain fog and impaired memory (which is more due to the opiate than benzo, the latter certainly doesn’t help but it‘s minor compared to the effect of former). I worry about my sleep because I don’t get enough REM sleep and dream as much as I should, let alone recall my dreams. But that is the only aspect of my benzo use that I’m remotely concerned about, and I don’t sleep at all because of pain without it, so it is the lesser of evils.

Back to your situation, I don’t recommend long term use of either drug class. But you could try alternating them. When my chronic pain first started, I rotated between morphine one day/night, diazepam the next, & nothing the third. As a result, I avoided becoming dependent on or developing a tolerance to either drug and was able to use both without raising my dose for over three months. Unfortunately, my pain escalated quickly thereafter. But, you might try a similar approach with the benzo of your choice. I’d use your time medicated to do cognitive behavioural therapy to treat the root cause of your anxiety. I did several years of CBT, on my own, technique based on a good book written by a psychiatrist, while on Prozac, to permanently overcome the worst of my OCD traits.

I've been taking clonzepam for over a decade and can go days without them
Opioids I can't go a day.
Both work for me but benzos is the safer for me. I'm on a lower dose then years ago but Opioids tolerance raises to fast.
To bad though, Opioids work great for me for depression and anxiety

 

[fairnymph]

I've been taking clonzepam for over a decade and can go days without them
Opioids I can't go a day.
Both work for me but benzos is the safer for me. I'm on a lower dose then years ago but Opioids tolerance raises to fast.
To bad though, Opioids work great for me for depression and anxiety

Same. Gotta taper every time off the h & go through WD. And yeah, opiate tolerance does build faster, but ime, as someone using both drugs therapeutically, my diazepam tolerance builds almost as quickly. After 3 months of continuous use each of them ceases to be particularly effective.

 

[Jen X]

I'm odd with benzos. Years ago when I started I was prescribed 1mg 4 times a day. I now take 0.5mg 4 times a day. For some reason my tolerance never goes up but with opioids I take my script and buy someone else's and dumbly use fentanyl when that person isn't around.
I have MS so will be on both the rest of my life I just wish I could control the morphine and hydromorph better.

 

[Preytor]

Benzos for sure are most effective at treating a panic attack in progress, ideally short-acting, non-sedating ones like Xanax, Ativan (gold standard imo), or etizolam.

Opioids might be more a better solution for preventing PAs from occurring, but you don’t want to become dependent on them.

Yes, opiates are nontoxic (most synthetic opioids ARE toxic) & can be safely taken continuously, even long term, but such use will effect substantial changes to the body. You’ll stop producing your own endogenous endorphins, & adrenal and testosterone hormone production will be suppressed.

Not everyone experiences withdrawal from all benzos; a significant proportion of people do not, including myself, though I’ve only taken Valium regularly for months at a time. How are your alcohol withdrawals? I’ve been taking an average of 10 mg diazepam daily for over 14 years, though I do take breaks a few times a year to reduce my tolerance. I take it for muscle tension, but I highly doubt I’d have a panic attack on it. That said, it’s not nearly as effective as Ativan (lorazepam) for PAs & I do occasionally take one of those when I’m stressed enough - to treat shaking hands - but this is only ever is an issue when I‘m smoking crack (even with diaz + h in my system).

I’ve been on heroin consistently since 2010 as well, for pain - also with regular breaks to reduce tolerance - & that certainly helps reduce anxiety too. But not as much as the diazepam. And the long term effects of h use are pretty awful; the lowered hormone levels (though I’ve found ways to partially trea that by taking bioidentical hormones), the severe lack of motivation, constant sedation/chronic low-grade fatigue, permanent brain fog and impaired memory (which is more due to the opiate than benzo, the latter certainly doesn’t help but it‘s minor compared to the effect of former). I worry about my sleep because I don’t get enough REM sleep and dream as much as I should, let alone recall my dreams. But that is the only aspect of my benzo use that I’m remotely concerned about, and I don’t sleep at all because of pain without it, so it is the lesser of evils.

Back to your situation, I don’t recommend long term use of either drug class. But you could try alternating them. When my chronic pain first started, I rotated between morphine one day/night, diazepam the next, & nothing the third. As a result, I avoided becoming dependent on or developing a tolerance to either drug and was able to use both without raising my dose for over three months. Unfortunately, my pain escalated quickly thereafter. But, you might try a similar approach with the benzo of your choice. I’d use your time medicated to do cognitive behavioural therapy to treat the root cause of your anxiety. I did several years of CBT, on my own, technique based on a good book written by a psychiatrist, while on Prozac, to permanently overcome the worst of my OCD traits.

See I also have muscle tension on my jaw(fucks me up with tinnitus, inflation, neck back pain and headaches) so maybe that's another thing to consider as a pro for benzos.

Even after stupid heavy drinking every day for 2 years straight, I never experienced physical withdrawals from alcohol. Did do massive dose of acid that made mental cravings disappear completely, but surely that couldn't have helped with physical withdrawal. So maybe benzos would be good for me?

I don't, I am just more concerned with the permanent changes benzos do to the brain. I get opioids can mess your hormones but I just feel like that's more preferable, at least from what I know on the subject, and the seemingly permanent memory problems people seem to get.


Anyways thank you everyone for you answers, really helps. Lots to think on.

 

[Mycophile]

I'm not reading all these posts right now cause I'm doing something else, but if I were you I'd sooner use something like Kratom for panic attacks than a benzo. Then again, I myself take Klonopin for anxiety. Hopefully someday I can get off it.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

See I also have muscle tension on my jaw

bupre at least causes me some jaw lock with associated symptoms

 

[paranoid android]

Benzos are much less abuseable then benzos in my opinion. They also work better for my anxiety then opiates do

 

[dopamimetic]

I found dissociatives (like ketamine nasally, which hits almost instantly) to be superior anxiolytics for me. They kind of dissolve the anxiety, not unlike benzos but differently of course. If you get the dosage right then there is very little impairment. The pro of using dissos is that they aren't physically addictive, at least not unless seriously abused. But not everybody seems to get this effect, for some they are anxiogenic. Guess one has to try. But it might be a question of the dosage, never read of anybody having a negative experience to therapeutic ketamine infusions.

 

[Jnowhere]

I'm not reading all these posts right now cause I'm doing something else, but if I were you I'd sooner use something like Kratom for panic attacks than a benzo. Then again, I myself take Klonopin for anxiety. Hopefully someday I can get off it.

You maybe end up being a lifer on Klonopin. I hate benzo's even though I use them.
I stop, I die( probably), opiods for anxiety is not the best idea.
Kratom, is not good either, fucks up your tolerance for opiods and withdrawals are a bitch, apparently.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I found dissociatives (like ketamine nasally, which hits almost instantly) to be superior anxiolytics for me.

I never was a huge fan of dissos, but I gotta say, methoxetamine was an amazing anxiolytic at low doses. Curiously, I do not get the same reaction from ketamine, but with MXE at like ~5-7mg was amazing for anxiety without being too disabling.

 

[Jnowhere]

Do they have a legal version?

 

[fairnymph]

See I also have muscle tension on my jaw(fucks me up with tinnitus, inflation, neck back pain and headaches) so maybe that's another thing to consider as a pro for benzos.

Even after stupid heavy drinking every day for 2 years straight, I never experienced physical withdrawals from alcohol. Did do massive dose of acid that made mental cravings disappear completely, but surely that couldn't have helped with physical withdrawal. So maybe benzos would be good for me?

I don't, I am just more concerned with the permanent changes benzos do to the brain. I get opioids can mess your hormones but I just feel like that's more preferable, at least from what I know on the subject, and the seemingly permanent memory problems people seem to get.


Anyways thank you everyone for you answers, really helps. Lots to think on.

I’d say diazepam for sure then. It‘s a miracle for muscle tension. It sounds like you tolerate GABAergic drugs well, & I really don’t think you need to worry about brain changes if you use it at reasonable, therapeutic doses & take regular breaks. I don’t believe I’ve suffered ANY negative effects from my 14+ years of diazepam use. My memory is still excellent when I’m off opiates, & even on opiates, better than most people’s. Benzos are very safe when used properly, especially diazepam.

 

[Keif' Richards]

I don't want to imply I know your whole experience just based upon what you've written in your post. I will try to give some advice based upon what I know about this stuff. I'm also not a sufferer of panic attacks. I have had what I believe to be a panic attack, though this was based upon both exogenous and endogenous factors, not something I suffer from regularly.

It sounds like what you're describing isn't an intermittent issue. The way you describe it sounds like you're suffering from severe anxiety for a large portion of your experience. This makes the situation a lot more difficult to figure out. If you were having, say one or even two panic episodes a week, then I'd say you could probably just use a Benzodiazepine as needed and call it a day. If you're suffering from anxiety all the time, then it would be a bad idea to introduce Benzodiazepines into the mix, as they're only effective for 2-6 weeks at most before the diminishing returns start hitting you hard.

As far as the Opioids go, that's even harder to say, as they're really not used for that purpose in medicine whatsoever, so there is not a lot of data to examine that says one way or the other. My gut reaction tells me that it's not a good idea, knowing how I've seen Opioids affect people. A lot of Opioid users start using Opioids due to stress/anxiety and/or depression. These people who self-medicate with Opioids seem to have a disproportionately negative long-term outcome defined by the usual escalations in dosage, tolerance and full-blown dependence.

I'm not saying it couldn't work if you had the willpower and dedication. I understand there was a lot more of this kind of ad hoc use of Opioids back when stuff like Tylenol w/Codeine and similar products were hanging around in people's medicine cabinets. This is another one of those instances where I really wish they had left Codeine products on the shelves. I think taking away the weaker option has actually led to a gap in treatment possibilities. I rarely, if ever here of Codeine being prescribed. It's almost always Hydrocodone/Oxycodone.

I think if you were to take a really low-dose Codeine tablet and combined that with other possible treatments like meditation, therapy and so on, it could potentially work. I know you have had previous episodes of Alcohol dependence. I hear you when you say you have it under control. I still believe there is an undeniable risk in trying to medicate using things like Opioids or Benzodiazepines.

My best guess would be a Benzodiazepine, though only to be used in moments when your anxiety is at its worst or when you need to be on-point for things, like work for instance. I think you should only take them when the situation is serious, while trying your best outside of these episodes to get through it without the medication.

 

[Mycophile]

You maybe end up being a lifer on Klonopin. I hate benzo's even though I use them.
I stop, I die( probably), opiods for anxiety is not the best idea.
Kratom, is not good either, fucks up your tolerance for opiods and withdrawals are a bitch, apparently.

Kratom withdrawals aren't a big deal. For me, I get 3 days of tiredness, depression, and a runny nose. They kind of suck but are noting like other opioids, and I don't use other opioids so I don't have to worry about tolerance to them.

I won't be a lifer on Klonopin most likely IF I'm determined enough to get off them, as I've spoken to my doctor about it. However, I'm pretty much ok with where I'm at for the moment which is only 1.25mgs per day.