Opioids Opiate Cross Tolerance Query

[Agarith1988]

Hi All,

This is my first post so bare with me. I was wondering to what degree taking regular codeine doses recreationally (400-600mg every few days) would effect my tolerance to Oxycodone. I procured 4 x Oxycontin from a source and prepared myself for a day of floating around (chores to do, music playing etc). I spit one tablet in half and proceeded to crush the tablet with the back of a library card. Having read up that 10mg for a starting dose should be fairly middle of the road for a guy my size (90kg) I snorted the line in 2 half?s spaces 5 minutes apart changing nostrils between. I settled in and noticed a mild shift in my mood, no itchy ness and a bit of change of head space. After about 20 minutes I was fairly sure what ever had started to happen had plateaued so I crushed the rest of the tablet and snorted the whole thing this time. Again this brought me about half of the intensity I felt after 400mg codeine.
The afternoon progressed in this fashion until I had crushed the last tablet and half of it remains now. So that brought me to 70mgs more or less. I am honestly very surprised my tolerance was this high the first time I have taken Oxycodone. I was expecting to be knocked on my ass at some point however this never happened. I do take An SSRI however I didn?t think this was going to effect the efficacy of the Oxy as I was fairly sure it was Dopamine it acted on more heavily. MDMA is much less effective these days (yes I am aware it?s not the best combo with SSRIs, curiosity cat got away from common sense cat)

Any thoughts on why I got less ?bang for the buck??

 

[Scrofula]

Why do you think you would not have high tolerance to four staggered oxycontin when you consume the equivalent of 17 Tyco #3 twice a week?

All of these opioid products bring out their magic through the same receptor, conveniently named The Opioid Receptor. These drugs are all cross-tolerant, whether you're cold-water extracting codeine tablets, shooting heroin, whining about suboxone, chewing fentanyl patches or ordering N-phenethyl-desmethylprodine through the grey market.

Dopamine is involved, but so is serotonin and all the other neurotransmitters bubbling around inside your skull. They come into play mainly after your opioids have plugged in to the receptor built just for them, and aren't going to notice any SSRIs floating by*. Oxycontin doesn't have any special dopamine partnerships compared to any other opioid.

So yes, you're simply opioid tolerant, due to your codeine habit.

(Bonus: hopefully you understand that MDMA will not work if you are taking even modest doses of any SSRI. I don't mean it won't work as well, I mean it will be an utter, total dud. Any sensation is either placebo or active adulterant.)



*Technically there are at least three classes of opioid receptor, and some antidepressants like Tramadol also activate opioid receptors. Some opioids do have minor activation of other receptor systems.

 

[Still_Good]

You got precisely the bang you should expect. I'm a 85kg dude, and I go with 30mg oxycodone as a single dose, even when I have no tolerance.

You can either cut out the codeine or buy more dope, I'm afraid.

 

[Agarith1988]

Thanks for that. I was just surprised my tolerance was already at that level, my codeine habit has only been going on a few months. Guess you learn something new every day. Next time I’ll start with a higher dose. MDMA did have an effect probably dulled by about half, more speedy less euphoric, definitely not a placebo. But doubt I would bother with it again as with less of the euphoria there is just anxious jittery energy that wouldn’t subside for about 12 hours, ended up being dysphoric by the end.

 

[Nicholai]

So, according to a standard opioid conversion chart, 400mg codeine is equivalent to 40mg oxy instant release(oral), with no reduction for incomplete cross-tolerance. That could vary widely, depending upon how well you metabolize codeine, and how well you absorb oxycodone, among a few more technical factors.

It becomes more complicated when you consider that the BA for snorted oxy is less than that of oral, and I'm not sure precisely in what form the oxy was given intranasally to establish the given numbers. But I doubt it was crushed Oxycontin.

When I had a script for Oxycontin 20mg, I decided to crush and snort one, and it did exactly fuck all, and my tolerance was at 10mg oxy IR for therapeutic effect. All I accomplished with that was to have a nasty headache the next day due to my very, very offended sinuses, and yes those where the oldschool crushable oxycontins that everyone raved about. I think most people were snorting those tabs in much higher dosages, which would affect things a lot, as there is a lot more drug compared to inactive fillers than those little pills. I never did it again, total waste of time.

So, all things considered, you'd have been better off taking 3 or 4 of those orally for an equivalent experience to your 400mg oral codeine dose, for an extended duration of 8-12 hours, or crushing 2 of the tabs like you did and just eating them.

Please keep in mind that opioid equivalency can vary wildly, and is even more complicated when you're trying to hack the pills like this.

Hope that clears things up for you.

 

[Scrofula]

MDMA did have an effect probably dulled by about half, more speedy less euphoric, definitely not a placebo.

If you're taking an SSRI, then the "speedy" effect was probably bad speed. Maybe ephedrine or caffeine. That SSRI directly blocks MDMA from getting into your brain cells, there's no way around it.

It becomes more complicated when you consider that the BA for snorted oxy is less than that of oral, and I'm not sure precisely in what form the oxy was given intranasally to establish the given numbers. But I doubt it was crushed Oxycontin.

This is actually not true: the bioavailability for crushed, intranasal oxycontin is higher than it is for oral, as referenced here. About 77% to 60%, at least for Purdue brand OxyContin in 2012.

If you take 500mg codeine as 75mg morphine equivalent, you can continue waving your hands and come out to 50mg oxycodone. Lots and lots of asterixes, footnotes, caveats, disclaimers and voided warranties in that number. But the main one is you were staggering your oxycodone dose, and you have the tolerance of someone who eats 100mg oxycontin a week.

 

[Nicholai]

Ahh, thanks Scorf, I hadn't read that particular paper. I guess my info was old. I'm guessing the OP must be in a country other than the US, as they are no longer available here.

At any rate, I was trying to simplify things, and meet the OP where he is, and also to discourage intranasal use, both of which I feel promote HR.

 

[Scrofula]

In fact the study was done with currently-available US Oxycontin. I don't want to promote intranasal abuse of meds either, but that is the current situation with anti-abuse technology.

 

[Nicholai]

It isn't my intention to go back and forth with you, but Oxycontin isn't available in the US anymore. OxyNeo is. You can't crush it with the back of a bank card. Some people use a dremel.

https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Advis...icDrugProductsAdvisoryCommittee/UCM568079.pdf

There are a million threads here on bluelight which demonstrate the...struggles, of US opioid enthusiasts trying to get past the new formulations. But they were, I believe, before your time.

 

[Scrofula]

OxyContin is manufactured by Purdue and available by prescription in the United States of America, this day, February 8th, year of that Jewish guy 2018. You can crush them and snort them, just not quite as easily as you could prior to reformulation in 2010. But pretty damned easily. You'll note OP cut them in half first.

Your link is an NDA from a different manufacturer, using data previously published on OxyContin to support their application. No where does it state that OxyContin has been removed from US markets. IPC Oxycodone ER itself hasn't been approved yet.

There are additional steps most people go through to have a successful intranasal experience--I'd share them again but they're helpfully described in detail in the link I already included.

The current--in my time--abuse deterrent technology is lacking everywhere for intranasal ROAs. Successful ones seem to come in bead form, with the extended release dose contained in a polymer that doesn't release drug inside your nostrils; instead you get only the immediate release dose. Purdue, on the other hand, used a polymer that actually assists in intranasal absorption. That is their current formulation.

In any case, there are other controlled-release oxycodone meds available, and OP might've just had some fucking Percocets.

 

[tacodude]

You can get oxycotin in the USA... It's just they are usually generic formulations being given out as they are cheaper.

Thank you scroff for the statement of nasal being stronger. Oc is weird where iv is no better than oral yet nasal can have me nodding hard off low doses when not the intention.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

∆. But that's counter to what u would expect based on known BA. Inasal < oral < iv

 

[tacodude]

Exactly that's why I find it weird.... I might be an outlier, but it's how it stacks for me. I'd consider oxy from weak to strong to be iv<oral<nasal. I am not trying to speculate as to why