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On the Demonisation of Methamphetamine on Bluelight

Exactly my situation. :\
That red heart emoji really comes from my heart. I know what you must be going through. Stay strong. Remember that they knew not what they were getting into to when their friends said " hey I ran out of addies, wanna try something else? ". I heard around here that's how a few of them got started. And they were still in High School. It makes me really sad. I mean I'm no prude grandmother but fuck....I have seen so much lately I weep for these families.
 
Forgot to factor in the firearm factor. This is a hunters paradise and everyone has a gun and everyone is carrying. Crimes that are happening on the spur of the moment and amp fueled are resulting in people getting shot much more easily. It's bad enough they were just fighting with their hands but now they just shoot you. Same with alcohol. Shit just gets people riled up I swear. Nice cool peeps turn into savages on the turn of a dime? What the hell? Is it so intense and you are so high that you just act on the spur of the moment? I guess.

I used to think I wanted to live rural but I was wrong. Give me back the city where at least there are neighbors close by. Takes 45 minutes for the cops to come from the shop to here. They put in a substation but it hasn't helped. This isn't about the right to bear arms. I believe in Venison wholeheartedly. But young people that should be having a good life are carrying and fucking up their whole future. Just damn sad when you see Mom's and Dad visiting junior in prison. Have 3 families within 10 miles doing that right now. Meth and guns kids. It's not going to end well.
I blame gun users for 100% of gun related deaths.
 
I blame gun users for 100% of gun related deaths.
If it were only that simple. I agree with your statement. Free will and all that shit. But not everyone is packing and we can't seem to unpack the ones that are the most gullible to pick up and use. It's a topic that I gave up on long ago. They are legal. People pack. Some just shouldn't.
 
If it were only that simple
Exactly. That's why I can't understand the blame that drugs, firearms, alcohol (etcetera) get for the circumstances at the heart of say violent crime, poverty, neighbourhoods falling apart..

It just seems that a lot of the focus is put on surface issues like meth rather than finding solutions for underlying societal issues that aren't as easy to even identify let alone solve. That's when loosely defined enemies like 'the tweakers' become targets. Easy targets really.
 
Exactly. That's why I can't understand the blame that drugs, firearms, alcohol (etcetera) get for the circumstances at the heart of say violent crime, poverty, neighbourhoods falling apart..

It just seems that a lot of the focus is put on surface issues like meth rather than solutions for underlying societal issues that aren't as easy to identify let alone solve. That's when loosely defined enemies like 'the tweakers' become targets. Easy targets really.
I'll give you that. Blaming a drug is stupid. It is a chemical that will just sit on a shelf and if left alone will blow away like dust. Meth addicts become targets because they put themselves out there more than say weed smokers, or oxy users, or kratom gulpers, or even fent injectors. Even xanny poppers are just stupid and unlikely to lose their shit at the drop of a hat. There is just something about meth that seems to bring out boatloads of bad decisions when under the influence of it. The shit must be amazing and " damn the torpedoes...full speed ahead. " If that's a good thing for people, that's fine. We all do things at our own peril.
 
I had meth a number of times, in a number of forms, over a number of years. It was okay sometimes. Ultimately, not for me. Decided not to do it anymore.

Never did any of the stereotypical behaviours like going to work fucked up, stealing.. I despise theft, definitely have no tolerance for any violent shit.

I have witnessed the other end of that spectrum, but I believe if they weren't doing crazy shit under the influence of meth, it would be alcohol or acid, or whatever else. If someone does something wrong, I don't care if they're smoking a herbal cigarette or PCP-laced methamphetaketacaine.
 
Agreed, We can debate metaphysics and so forth until the sun comes up, but what really matters are the cold, hard facts. Meth is no good. Whatever syntactic loop applied to the issue, it can't stand in for what actually happens. Meth is a scourge, regardless of whomever gets up on their self-righteous pulpit.
 
This forum has, in recent months, seen a huge increase in anti-meth comments, moderators popping in with some fear mongering PSA, and threads that seem like nothing but open invitations to rag on the drug started by greenlighters that inexplicably disappear afterward. 😐
Feels almost like a calculated effort.

Nice topic @Perforated
Ah yes, now I see it.
 
Agreed, We can debate metaphysics and so forth until the sun comes up, but what really matters are the cold, hard facts Meth is no good. Whatever syntactic loop applied to the issue, it can't stand in for what actually happens. Meth is a scourge, regardless of whomever gets up on their self-righteous pulpit.
Too Much Meth is no good, that's for damn sure.

I actually found (Micro-Dosed) Meth to be quite therapeutic for any number of ailments (ADHD/Depression/PTSD). I did phenomenally well using it as a Medication for about a year and a half, then the pandemic set-in, a bunch of people found out I was using it and labeled me a junky, my Family went crazy, and I eventually took too much and slipped into a major psychosis / (induced) paranoid schizophrenic state and basically lost everything.

To label Meth an outright scourge isn't fair. Crack is a scourage. There are positives to Meth use. In appropriate doses it is a beneficial FDA-Approved Medication.
 
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For the people discussing their distate for the lifestyles and behaviour of their local neighbourhood tweakers, I respect the fact that that is what you see, experience, and have to live with and that it doesn't add much to the quality of your life. But I also wonder how much it is a socio-economic phenomenon only exascerbated by meth rather than being caused by it. Australia is known as a very high per capita consumer of meth but we don't really have whole towns/communities lost to it (or opiates) permanently. Even in the lowest income and lowest education welfare dependent suburbs meth is still only a habit of a minority subset of the population, though it's use does seem to be increasing slowly. But we also have fairly community-minded policing and a helluva lot of social services directed at these comunities.

In American suburbs, towns and cities where meth-related socially problematic behaviour is apparently rampant I genuinely wonder whether such problems would still exist if the only drug available was alcohol. Miserable, under-educated, socially-disenfranchised people with little hope of social advancement have always created havoc and willingly shat in their own nest.

In some ways the situation is not disimmilar to the so-called Gin Craze that swept through lower class London in the 18th Century https://www.vice.com/en/article/53jj7z/how-a-gin-craze-nearly-destroyed-18th-century-london




Interestingly though, the proportion of crime committed by amphetamine users relative to opiate or other drug users has fliped in the last 10 years in Australia with amphetamine being associated with significantly far more crime in most categories than other drugs, though cannabis not insignificant. Disproportionately the people being arrested though are repeat-offenders with long-experience of the criminal justice system with unstable housing/employment and low education levels who are female and indigenous - which is a black mark (no pun intended) against the effort and effectiveness of our police forces.

This is probably why I barely ever encounter people using methamphetamine who have a criminal record. I don't move in those socio-economic circles very often, though I meet plenty of people from better circumstances who use meth socially or recreationally and hold down jobs and stay clear of the criminal justice system as a result (except possibly for a minor possession charge).

But the time-series data suggests that crime is consistently drug and alcohol related not specifically related to methamphetamine. That is, people who commit crime take advantage of whatever subsntance is most readily available and methamphetamine has become more readily available. Taken over time though, it has not increased crime rates overall.

 
Well, let's look at that..

We Spent a Night with Paramedics to Find Out if Australia Is Really Facing a Meth Epidemic
Turns out the problems caused by drugs are dwarfed by the carnage caused by booze.

Dec 22 2015,
Paramedics get front-row seats to the way a city gets wasted. When someone passes out, gets knocked unconscious, falls, freaks out, or gets found, mobile medics are usually the first on the scene. This is why, when we wanted to know what Australia's much-written-about ice (slang for crystalline methamphetamine) epidemic looked like, we contacted Ambulance Victoria.
Australia is now eight months into an official war on ice. In April former Prime Minister Tony Abbott ordered a task-force to find ways of tackling the use of the drug. On Monday, Prime Minister Turnbull announced a $300 million [$217 million USD] to enact the plan, making assurances that health service providers would see the bulk of this cash.
In the months leading up to this announcement we'd spent four Saturday nights trawling Melbourne with two separate ambulance crews. With the funding boost coming in, it's likely crews like these will be seeing their slice of it. And while they surely need it, maybe it's not for the reasons you'd assume.
The first incident we were called out to involved a young guy who'd fallen off a balcony. He'd been drinking gin and we found him splayed over a bottom floor, unable to sit up. He was smiling and bubbly, but his words made no sense and his head looked worryingly asymmetrical. This was almost standard, explained Greg Gibson, the group manager with Ambulance Victoria. Every weekend they clean up after a culture that drinks to get drunk. According to him, the fallout from other drugs pales in comparison.
The most cited stats on the cost of drugs and alcohol are from 2004-05. That year it was estimated illicit drug use costed Australia $8.2 billion [$6 billion USD], while alcohol was nearly double at $15.3 billion [$11 billion USD]. A revised estimate by the Foundation for Alcohol Research and Education has since priced drinking higher again at $36 billion [$26 billion USD].
These are only estimates, but they seemed pretty well-reflected during my ambulance tour of Melbourne. We saw booze-powered fights, accidents, domestics, and a whole lot of vomit. Only once did we get called to an ice incident: An older guy in a halfway house claimed he was having an overdose, but when we got there he was just kind of confused. It was an ugly scene, but compared to a young guy who'd been drunkenly sucker-punched and face-planted on a fire hydrant, it was pretty innocuous.
We're not the first to raise these concerns. Experts have been comparing the damage waged by drinking to the effects made by ice for years. The first issue is that ice use doesn't even seem as prevalent as the word epidemic might suggest Australia's main way of measuring drug use is the National Drug Household Survey. It tells us that rates of ice use have plateaued since 2010. At that point 7 percent of people admitted they'd tried ice at least once. In 2013 that number was unchanged. While usage might be stable, the public don't seem to know this. The University of NSW recently surveyed 11,000 people to find just under half thought between 30 and 100 percent of Australians had tried ice. As mentioned before, that true figure is 7 percent—a notable difference. So what's fanning the notion we're in the grips of an ice epidemic? According to experts it may be a feedback cycle, perpetrated by media coverage and endorsed by increased arrests. Associate Professor John Fitzgerald, sociologist and drug expert at the University of Melbourne, told the ABC that drugs arrests have risen dramatically, which would seem to suggest there's more drugs around. "In the space of two years [2011-2013] we doubled the amount of amphetamine users we were arresting. That's insane because we didn't see a proportional change in how many dealers we were arresting. There was a targeting of drug users," he explained. Of course this is a simplification. There are numerous reasons why the Australian public is so fixated on ice. But again the paramedics we told us for all the excitement around illicit drugs, ice just wasn't their main concern. Spending four nights in an ambulance was never a way to quantifiably prove the existence of an ice epidemic. In any case, it didn't. But it did illustrate the extent to which society suffers via alcohol. The issue is that we're throwing $300 million at ice, while comparatively ignoring the other.
 
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Bath salts made people evil. Meth is addictive and it's easy to get addicted. Meths still plenty good to be. Sober almost two years now. But I still miss it... I dunno. I wouldn't try drugs if your new. Because it's all about having this taste for red meat(meth) in a world of vegans. You know? There's no choose, I follow the laws now that's how I love life

Do I secretly hope someone kidnaps me and gives me meth for no reason so my family can't be mad I did meth again. Or do I wish breaking bad goes down and I maker millions cooking meth.. secretly yes.

But im sober and fat people and the war on food is more important to worry about. All drugs are on there way out. Because they come from other countries and America could lock the border down if it really wanted. I mean I'm guessing, but it seems like a large amount of drugs come in and there cheap af right now. Imo.

Sigh. Now I'm missing meth a little. Good post good read. But man the war on drugs is a old outdated stupid way of doing things that's back firing for the cops right now as people want to be left alone to do there drugs.. I could come up with a better plan then Nixon, that crook.
Lol
 
I would have to say that Bluelight has actually improved my perception of meth and meth users. Living the vast majority of my life around actual terrible low life idiots who used meth caused me to never be that interested. I always had the opinion that meth was the worst of the worst, and there was pretty much no redeeming qualities to a person that would stoop to that level. Again this was all influenced by many other factors including namely poverty and alcohol, but meth was a convenient scapegoat.

But since posting here I've been exposed to many individuals who have broken that stereotype in my mind. Normally I just would've kept in my normal circles and gone about my life.
 
I've done meth a handful of times, I binged on it for a week once too. I definitely watched a lot of porn and didn't sleep much and smoked it like it was going out of style that time, but I ran out and never committed any crimes or otherwise did anything deviant, kept my job, I even ate and brushed my teeth. But a lot of people do descend into much worse.

I take an opioid and I quickly descend into severe addiction, withdrawal, etc, and have to struggle mightily to stop again. But some people can take them once in a while and be fine.

Some people smoke weed all day every day, can't hold down a job, and accomplish nothing ever. While many others can use it recreationally with little to no negative impact on their lives or productivity.

Some people become violent angry drunks and beat their spouses and kids, or they become homeless and living on the streets, or they drink themselves to death. And many others can have a drink with dinner or get drunk from time to time.

Some people huff gasoline and get brain damage, but most people just use it to drive their cars and power their lawn mowers and generators.

Some people play videos games to the exclusion of all else, destroying relationships and stagnating their lives. Most enjoy them sometimes during free time as a fun activity.

Some people eat themselves into obesity and type 2 diabetes, but most people just do it the right amount to survive.


In each case there is some underlying reason people do these things, and it involves self medicating some sort of issue, whether that is stressful or depressing life conditions or an underlying condition. Our world is stressful and confusing and our quality of life is steadily decreasing. As a result there is more self medication than ever.
 
I would have to say that Bluelight has actually improved my perception of meth and meth users. Living the vast majority of my life around actual terrible low life idiots who used meth caused me to never be that interested. I always had the opinion that meth was the worst of the worst, and there was pretty much no redeeming qualities to a person that would stoop to that level. Again this was all influenced by many other factors including namely poverty and alcohol, but meth was a convenient scapegoat.

But since posting here I've been exposed to many individuals who have broken that stereotype in my mind. Normally I just would've kept in my normal circles and gone about my life.
14, I was having trouble at school. I wasn't keeping up, wasn't sleeping, anxious every morning etcetera.. it was easier for me to just not go than deal with the constant intervention of counselors, Vice Principals, head of department assholes..

This senior girl fell into step with me as I was walking home, asked me why I hadn't been at school lately and I explained. Few days later, she gave me a bunch of Ritalin.

I didn't do drugs, had no interest in actually taking them. Then I got pulled out of class for the second time that day by some counselor I didn't know wanting to know why I was always so distracted.

I took two pills. For the first time in a long time, I had a good, productive day.

The next time I asked around for Ritalin, I was given dexamphetamine, a more serious, focus on one thing for hours type of deal. Different, but it worked.

At around 16, ADHD meds were difficult to come across, but street press methamphetamine tablets were available. Again, they made me feel quite serious, but focused nonetheless.

When the same thing was available in powder at a lower price, it didn't seem a big deal. It was heavily cut though, this speed powder.

When crystal, high purity meth was available, I was cautious on account of all the ad campaigns and stories.. but I used it on occasion, sparingly, in 5-10mg increments and never had any problem.

I saw that a lot of users were taking 20 to 50 times that amount intravenously and in some cases I saw, the psychosis didn't seem to just go away when use of the drug ceased.

I was done with it at that point and stopped taking it. That was ten years ago.

Point is, it wasn't a scene or a lifestyle or even very enjoyable, just a substitute for unobtainable controlled substances which helped me deal with circumstances that I hadn't yet learnt to deal with in more practical, sustainable ways.

When I hear the judgement, often littered with stereotypes, projection and logical fallacies, it's not just annoying, but about as counterproductive as a school counselor pulling a kid away from their schoolwork to ask why they aren't doing their schoolwork.
 
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