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On the Demonisation of Methamphetamine on Bluelight

If you have prexisting bipolar or schizophrenic tendencies, there's no if with stimulants, but when. People with manic bipolar often feel normal when on stimulants and stop taking their medication which is another compounding factor. You can find a balance but it's very hard with the nature of both disorders, I think it often results in choosing between ADHD symptoms or bipolar.
 
So it was called “Pervitin” and I believe the etymology goes something like: “for vitality / vigor“, though I admit this is just my own speculation. I believe the accent falls on the second syllable of the word, so like “per-VIT-in” whereas the spelling “pervitine” implies an earlier stress, like “PERV-eh-teen”. I mean, I know meth is an aphrodisiac and all, but… lol. Calling it PERVitine is fuckin’ hilarious to me right now (but that’s probs bc I’m tripping ⚽🏀).
It definitely, definitely turns you into a perv, that's for sure :ROFLMAO:. I go straight freak-mode on the stuff...
My best guess is: yes, it would eventually cause you the same trouble, though it probably depends on the dose and your general health and rest when using it. Idk, maybe @negrogesic can back me up here, but I believe the drug-induced psychosis state that resembles schizotypal personality disorder replete with delusions of persecution, paranoia, and so & so forth? … I believe this is the result of someone prone to over-expressing dopamine taking a heavy dopamine-releasor.
I mean there's that aspect, but, like, um, people actually came after me? lol...
The thing with Desoxyn is that you’d be taking a relatively small dose via oral ingestion. This is a lot different experientially compared to other routes of administration, particularly those that lend themselves to large doses and continual re-dosing without much regard for being reasonable and sensible. When taken orally, small doses of Desoxyn (say, 20 - 60 mg) is almost indistinguishable from instant release Adderall to most people. The increased serotonin affinity does make a difference though, and in large doses, it makes all the difference, rendering a dose like 250 mg of methamphetamine as being pretty highly euphoric and inebriating. A dose of 250 mg Adderall would feel like skin-crawly, senselessly nervous and riddled with anxiety… and a desire to come down stat…
See, all I'm taking anymore is like 50-60mg, orally. For me? That's all I need. I'm convinced: Something about my Brain is different. I can't fathom doing 250mg all at once? I mean, I 've read about people doing like a G (or more!) in a day and I'm just blown-away, how, how do you enjoy doing that much? I would freak-out, I would go crazy, I would have to go the ER? I just don't understand how people enjoy that level of stimulation? Here again, I'm using it orally, and most everyone else smokes it or shoots it, maybe that's the differece? I never done either, so I wouldn't know. (well, I took one small hit off a bubler once, but I really don't think that counts)

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If you have prexisting bipolar or schizophrenic tendencies, there's no if with stimulants, but when. People with manic bipolar often feel normal when on stimulants and stop taking their medication which is another compounding factor. You can find a balance but it's very hard with the nature of both disorders, I think it often results in choosing between ADHD symptoms or bipolar.
I would agree with this statement 100%. It's nearly impossible to balance the two, that's for sure. The times I have been able to walk the tightrope? WOW, amazing things have happened.
 
I would freak-out, I would go crazy, I would have to go the ER? I just don't understand how people enjoy that level of stimulation?

Hey @acklac7 I want to be as sensitive as possible in asking this. So please don’t be offended as I just want people reading this to be aware of all relevant facts.

You say above you are currently using no more than 50-60 mg orally and that such a dose seems effective and safe for you? Am I correct about that?

If so, do you recall having a psychotic break some months ago that included the intervention of several Bluelight members and staff. According to the records, some of which have been archived in your interest, meth played a significant role in this episode and your trip to the ER?

I’m curious about whether you acknowledge that history?

If so, could you share what your ROA and dose levels then (immediately prior to needing psychiatric assistance) were compared to now, and what you think will protect you from ending up the same way?

For example, are you also now taking prescribed meds? As well as your oral meth?
 
If you're not taking meth are you not supposed to be taking Quetiapine or something for the bipolar? You'd need it to get back on a proper level after psychosis. Even if it was just temporarily
 
If you're not taking meth are you not supposed to be taking Quetiapine or something for the bipolar? You'd need it to get back on a proper level after psychosis. Even if it was just temporarily
Oh, I agree 100%

Just so everyone is aware: I got super drunk the other night, I was Hospitalized, analyzed, and released within 4 hours: I'm fine. There's nothing wrong with me. The situation. The situation is what's wrong everyone. 👍
 
@acklac7 be a good BL citizen and delete all those spam posts will you? This thread has a lot of good discussion in it and if you don’t want to participate in rational discussion go play in The Lounge. The mods here @VerbalTruist and @ghostfreak no longer have me as the colleague always happy to tidy up the tweaker shit before anybody notices. Do them a favour and clean up you own mess.
 
I am not in anyway trying to support or justify anyone's ideas or opinions. A few of my own experiences shed some light on a very unique perspective relating to the stigma attached to meth so I thought this would be interesting to share

To be able to understand my point you gotta know some details about my life....

I have MCTD...mixed connective tissue disease. It's a very complicated disease to explain as it can involve many factors. But it's an auto immune disease that can affect your skin. I use to get rashes that would breakout almost like chicken poxs. It took a longtime to figure out the source of cause and find the right treatment.

Also I am an opiate addict. There was this guy that always had pills. I married him. Case closed. But I also got pregnant and had our son. Once the baby came I realized this wasn't where we needed to be so I took my son and Ieft. It was kinda like having a child with the devil that you hope someday becomes an angel. So I left. But he just happened to be a narcissist socio path. Eventually I started catching on to things happening in my home network that shouldn't be happening. I found a folder in my file explorer labeled "104 media" that had over 30 webcam videos of me that had been recorded from my own webcam. I had not done this nor did I know each time that I was being recorded. I made the mistake of always leaving my laptop open. I had also been skyping with this guy in the UK. Best relationship ever. He told me what he wanted and I gave it to him. It was like a sub/Dom thing. He sent me the sexiest stuff to wear that I've ever seen. Even tho we never physically got to touch our experiences just thru webcam were the most erotic moments of my life.....until I found out that I was a porn star because several of those times had been recorded. My pics had also been plastered all over the internet. I've referred to some of this in my posts before. It's been a battle getting it all took down. It's not been that long ago that someone found one and I had to file another Google take down notice. But anyone can see how all of this could be traumatic for me. They had even took over the voicemail of my charter account and had been controlling some of my calls coming in and out.


During this time I was also experiencing a bad skin breakout. I looked like I had the measles. But I am not just talking about someone hacking my FB account. This was a serious violation to me. All I knew about was what all I had found out so far. What else had been done and how far had everything gone?! What didn't I know?! I began frantically calling the police plus Microsoft....Google...apple....FBI...the president of the US lol. Not really but still lol. I did do everything I thought I could do to figure out what to do.

Here I am....all tore up...anxious...scared... humiliated... embarrassed...pissed off....looking like I got the chicken poxs. But I had lost complete control of my own narrative. It didn't matter what I did or what all I said. All the visual proof I had didn't even matter. Regardless....no one would help me because it just had to be that I was on meth and paranoid. I even passed a urine drug screen. This all went on for over a year. Not being broke out and hacked but trying to get my shit straightened out and making sure it all had stopped. Finally I got a hair follicle test done. It was just crazy how hard that stigma shut down all other reality.

***I thought I'd add that I did for a fact find out that it was my ex. Basically what it all amounted to was that he had took over administrative control of my home network almost like it was a work account. I know most might not understand the technology involved so idk if that'll help make sense or not. I never knew much about it either until I had to learn the hard way thru this
 
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***I thought I'd add that I did for a fact find out that it was my ex. Basically what it all amounted to was that he had took over administrative control of my home network almost like it was a work account. I know most might not understand the technology involved so idk if that'll help make sense or not. I never knew much about it either until I had to learn the hard way thru this
Sounds like a RAT Trojan, they were big a few years ago with people trying to remotely control people's webcams. Didn't have to be particularly tech savvy either. Sorry that happened to you.
 
Sounds like a RAT Trojan, they were big a few years ago with people trying to remotely control people's webcams. Didn't have to be particularly tech savvy either. Sorry that happened to you.
At the time it happened I didnt know much about the network and tech involved. It was hard to explain the things I was seeing to get the help I needed. But once you experience something like that youll learn lol. It took a longtime to put it all together correctly. Yes it was a Trojan. There were times when Id first wake my screen and Id find a logmein convo box open. People really underestimate the threat all this tech is on our privacy

Now I love messing with it. I wanna plau with Kali lol
 
I have created a The Stimulant Social for those of you who want to talk about anything upper related. Check it out. Read my lead in post. It’s a thread to talk about anything really. At this point, I’m willing to let you get as off topic and weird as I can tolerate. My tolerance is high. Go nuts. Just don’t break the DC Guidelines or violate the BLUA.
 
You shouk
Wow, I have access to world leaders telephone numbers and shit now, huh?

This is deep, deep.
You should head over and get the new Stimulant Social going. Your posts won’t be deleted for being off topic there.
 
It definitely, definitely turns you into a perv, that's for sure :ROFLMAO:. I go straight freak-mode on the stuff...
It's an aphrodisiac for sure. I think this property is both obvious and well known, but I sometimes underestimate the pervasiveness of general ignorance.
See, all I'm taking anymore is like 50-60mg, orally. For me? That's all I need.
Need?
I'm convinced: Something about my Brain is different.
Yes, you're a one-of-a-kind… just like the rest of us. However, your biology almost certainly does not diverge far from the flock, so to speak.
I can't fathom doing 250mg all at once? I mean, I 've read about people doing like a G (or more!) in a day and I'm just blown-away, how, how do you enjoy doing that much?
I think you're forgetting to factor in tolerance.
I would freak-out, I would go crazy, I would have to go the ER?
Well not to go all NLP on you, but you're prepping yourself to respond this way by thinking this. Again, if you factor in tolerance and the tendency of habitual vaporization to lead to a considerable amount of waste in most instances, you would probably be fine, just very fucked up and almost certainly functionally useless. I'm neither recommending nor trying to dissuade you from doing this. As always, it's up to you; I'm just about facts and spreading knowledge on harm reduction and safe use patterns.
I just don't understand how people enjoy that level of stimulation?
Different strokes for different folks and all that, plus you should note: there's a difference between using stimulants functionally and using them recreationally.
Here again, I'm using it orally, and most everyone else smokes it or shoots it, maybe that's the differece? I never done either, so I wouldn't know. (well, I took one small hit off a bubler once, but I really don't think that counts)
Ah. It's interesting how meth's effects change with route of administration.
 
together.
TL;DR: all drugs fuck people's lives. We should treat them all the same. Don't take meth. If you do, be careful.

Firstly, I should say that I have quit methamphetamine, have generally found it a drug counterproductive to what I want to achieve in life, and have a very strong resolve to never touch it again. I should also say that I have been in this same situation before and inevitably picked up again. So I don't have any doubt about meth's addictive potential. But I've struggled just as hard and suffered much more loss in life thanks to old fashioned speed and cocaine at different times in my life. I'd prefer to be addicted to smoking meth than shooting speed or coke again. But really, I'd prefer to steer clear of stimulants all together.

That said, I think that the discussion of meth on Bluelight is often unbalanced and confusing. On the one hand there are posters like @agnosia (who I use just as an example, there are many others) who claim meth does not really exist or is so weak and incapabe of delivering a decent high that it is not worthy of the title 'drug'. Such posters on the 'meth is weak' side often subscribe to the belief that modern P2P production methods or cutting products used by Mexican producers result in some other substance different to what 'real' meth was when produced by bikers using pseudoephedrine.

On the other there are others, including Moderators like @mr peabody, who maintain a steady stream of material designed to convince us that meth is the most toxic, addictive, and dangerous drug ever invented and that addiction to it is basicaly gauranteed and hopeless as it turns users into violent, psychopathic monsters devoid of humanity. I have read posts by young people quite terrified their life has been destreoyed because they had one try of meth. Or worried that they cannot take prescribed stimulants for ADHD because "Adderall is the same as meth, and meth turns people into monsters".

In my view, both these extreme arguments are unhelpful unless you are a fully paid up Abolitionist member of the Drug War. Both play in the climate of toxic fear that surrounds drug use and contribute to the shaming and stigmatisation of drug use and drug users. The meth is not real meth argument says that mysterious toxins in meth will kill you and that they are both ubiquitious and cannot be tested for. It also implicitly argues that because modern meth is cut and weak it is not that dangerous. There is no evidence for any of of those things. Lots of people are getting plenty high of meth and consequently getting into all kinds of behavioural, emotional, physical, and legal problems.

The abundant violence, abandonment of children and family, criminal negligence, lying, self-prostitution, pimping of others, theft, fraud and endless other reprehensible heviour committed by all of us and revealed across thousands of posts and threads involved many other substances besides methamphetamine. In my own life, I've only experienced such things in my family and friends amongst people addicted to weed and opiates. Though, I've told many lies myself and committed tax and insurance fraud while on amphetamines.

The meth is the devil's own drug argument is hyperbole and overlooks the fact that there are many many people who use meth occasionally and recreationally with few problems or else manage long term addictions without becoming monsters or psychpaths. There are numerous members of Bluelight who fall into both categories. At the same time there are many recovered andrecovering addicts and users here whose lives were utterly destroyed by everything from weed (realtively uncommon admittedly) to opiates (very common), to precription drugs including AP's (very common), to MDMA (very common). And let's not forget coke especially crack. In fact I would venture to say, that there are more people on BL who regret the damage caused by other drugs than there are people who ruined or are ruining their lives their lives thanks to meth.

Given the mission of Bluelight is Harm Reduction and not promoting abstinence or deliberately scaring the fuck out of people who get involved with drugs I think we need to be a bit more balanced in how to present and discuss the realties of methamphetamine. It certainly is a powerful drug with specific risks and is more than capable of destroying lives. But probably no more so than many other drugs that are not similarly misrepresented or stigmatised here.

We are trying to provide a fact-based alternative to The War on Drugs, not collaborating with it. The drivers of addiction and the problems that it causes are not found purely in the substances people take. They are just as much in the socio-cultural and psychological conditions of people who run into trouble with those subsntance. If a high proportion of people in a given context have big problems with drugs, it's llikely to be just as much about that place and it's leadership (whether a household, a community, a city, or a country) than it is whatever they are taking.

Also, if you want my advice. Don't Fuck with Meth. Or Opiates. Or Coke. Or Benzos. Or Alchohol. None of them ever did me any good. But you're not me. Which is lucky for you.
Omg perforated, you write beautifully!! Yep, yep, and yep. Your adhd right? When were you diagnosed? I’ve always loved drugs too, but don’t really have any friends that, like moi, hid a dependence, a habit, self medicating, an addiction or whatever the fuck it is/was…..infact I can say none of my friends, besides those i bought off, would have even tried it. Sure they’ll rack up at some glam event, pop a pill and have a good party time, but that’s a rarity for me as I choose not to fuck myself up having an 11yo, and find socialising not as enjoyable with weekend drug takers who seem somehow tragic…..so ridiculous coming from someone who loved smoking meth, staying up all night cleaning, writing, being creative and productive all the while knowing that the coming day would be a little tricky on no sleep, but happy to have done it, enjoyed my night and feel on top of things, (even though it’s very “naughty”).

I identify with what you say, up until the last paragraph or 2 where I get the picture you didn’t have, how shall I put it without sounding like a fuckwit, a privileged life……though that’s not exactly what I mean bc it’s obvious you are very smart. Perhaps you are one that didn’t need school and is just naturally eloquent & knowledgeable, or perhaps you wasted your talent and never achieves your potential?

Whatever the case, your honesty and sensible-ness I really like & admire. Do you have funny stories about your life, or are you a bit pissed off with the lot you were dealt? X
 
I’d say my opinion is “informed” rather than “skewed” by several years of addiction to different stimulants including meth.

The rock bottoms and uncontrollable usage I experienced were caused primarily by my psychology at the time. My first bout with IV coke certainly caused me to think it was a monster drug. My first bout with meth was something similar. Both rendered me quite dysfunctional. Coke led me to divorce, bankruptcy and a psychotic break.

But some sober years doing rehab, working through childhood trauma, getting treatment for a psychiatric issue, and having some achievements in the real world substantially reduced the negative effects stimulants have on me.

They don’t improve my life. And they are still risky proposotions I’d rather avoid. But I lost nothing and hurt no-one in the last two years using meth very frequently. Except for my self-respect. I did lose quite a bit of that.

So I’ve formed the view that meth (and prob stimulants in genral) is very dangerous for a weak or damaged psyche but less so for psychologically robust people. Not good for them, just less dangerous.

The people going batshit crazy on meth and making the news are in most cases damaged or weak-minded before they ever picked it up. We don’t hear much about the people of sound mind who succesfully dabble in drugs with little damage in their lives.

Don’t get me wrong I am neither pro- nor anti-drugs of any sort and I don’t judge anyone who cannot handle them safely. Neither am I impressed by people who get away with taking boatloads with no problem.

All I’m saying is

(a) take them carefully and safely

(b) remember any drug is capable of ruining a life if it is a bad match for the psychology of the individual who takes it

(c) try and rely on balanced facts and reasoned arguments when making statements for or against a particular drug or particular type of user.
I really should read the whole thread before replying (see first reply) but, Jesus, you could be my weird brother from another mother as in I understand you, I think I do at least. I have lots of “oh yeah, I know that feeling” when I read your stuff, not that I arrived at the feeling in the way you may have, but yeah, lots of “mmm, yes me too”’s. X
 
Yeah, indeed.

Meth does exist and it is strong, but imho it's its duration which wrecks people. I'm somebody who can't understand that one submits himself completely to a drug to the point of stealing your girl/boyfriends stuff to sell for dope and if then more to opiates than stims, but they for sure can creep up behind the surface unless one needs them to function, life's shitty with and shitty without. Stims can be equally painkilling as morphine. Meth's legs are just too long, and only passing out because of sleep deprivation isn't exactly healthy; still I'd say unless very high dosages or toxic impurities, it's overblown. I know a girl who did meth for most part of her around 30 years and she looks nothing like it, but had access to pure stuff. She's even doing martial arts stuff and must have done so before quitting meth. Might be an exception. I found meth to be nice, if you could cut it into three or four handy pieces, which we might have with 2-/3-(/-4)-FA if they weren't mostly illegal.

I second not to like that users of certain drugs are being treated differently because of preconceptions instead of how they behave, guess that's human, I had low meanings of opioid people before I got addicted myself and somewhat ashame for that. The meaning, less the addiction. Somehow drug culture as a whole is pretty heterogen and still applies much too much of prohibitive thinking to themselves and others; we don't need to repeat society and history but when I read about people being ashamed by tripping in front of their freaking cat*, then I don't know what to say anymore. We all need more people who understand us and less such who judge us.

* I love animals, absolutely, and this shouldn't be read as negative just that animals won't see why consuming something which you like is bad, and they don't know the conception of silly behaviour.
AWw that was lovely! X
 
If a teenager asked someone how to have safe sex and the answer was "Don't do sex, it's evil 🙈" that would probably end up hurting the teenager even more than telling them how to use a condom.

I'll admit I am guilty of this type of advice when it comes to heroin.

A lot of us are grizzled veterans of the drug world and have developed our own biases against certain drugs. I've introduced people to heroin in real life who went on to OD. I have a deep remorse. It's very difficult for me not to tell people simply not to do it.

And then we can look at some of the past drama of BLers ODing and people blaming other people for 'introducing' them to it.

I do agree though that we shouldn't have any biases here about any drug, but I don't think we should stop people from giving the "just say no", because it technically is something that should be considered when trying any new drug.

Bit off topic but applies to meth as well I guess.

Personally I've seen more bias against heroin here on BL compared to meth, but I don't visit meth threads very often.

I think this is a great discussion
Excellent synopsis, thank you.
 
No, of course not; I'm an avid proponent of free speech. I don't think we should stop people from exercising that protected speech; I'm very opposed to censorship. However, my opinion is that to teach teenagers to “just say no” and not to think for themselves is counterproductive at best; and blatant propaganda at worst.

But hey, that's just how I see it. People get panicky when young people die and this too frequently leads to shit legislation and a misguided public perception of a social issue. You can tell because society has tried (and failed) to fix the issue with law enforcement and prescribing it a criminal role. Just like with alcohol prohibition; drug prohibition is a miserable failure, and like it or not, society has to face down the figurative “demons” that we find in drug abuse problems and compulsive behavior pattern disorders coupled with the medical dangers of tolerance/dependency cycles.

I reject the term “addict”, which is a wonky allegory, as the term's etymology reveals it literally means "spoken for". Hence: “dict” in its root, as in “dictionary”, “dictate”, and “diction”. So the term implies a weird kind of anthropomorphic regard for the otherwise inanimate objects our inherited society has drawn arbitrary lines around and labelled “illicit drugs”. This is not a Sadie Hawkins dance; no one is “spoken for” by a pile of white powder or whatever their drug du jour happens to be. That's just silly nonsense. At the same time, I can't help but also recognize the ubiquitous nature of the word and I'd be foolish not to acknowledge that the word has transcended its roots and become a shorthand way of describing what I long-windedly call dependency/tolerance cycles coupled with compulsive behavior pattern disorders. Or for the British-English speakers: compulsive behaviour pattern disorders.
Bloody good unodelacosa!
 
I had a 10mg QID (40mg) desoxyn prescription once but stopped as i paid outrageous sums for it as my insurance refused to cover it. They thought, "oh no, we know this negrogesic asshole and all the shit he's been through, no meth for him". I had to buy it myself. Wasn't worth it.

A psychiatrists who thinks they are clever can prescribe it easily, they report to no one. At least if they are being genuine. Desoxyn is rarely abused due to its cost. 40mg of meth just sort of made me loopy and sedated anyhow. Its no fun at all.
Oh that’s a bummer to hear, I thought it would be good…..or a decent substitute at least…….fucking gotta be better than vyvance…
 
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