Scared Off methadone and in the midst of a suboxone taper to become opiate free and need help!

[sherlock14]

Does a short term Buprenorphine taper work to walk away with significantly reduced withdrawal symptoms when off of it? You would think that, even though it's only a partial agonist, it still hits opiate receptors so you would be back at day 1 of withdrawal after discontinued use of Buprenorphine.
I was convinced by my doctor to use a short term 14-21 day suboxone taper to come off of 30mg methadone daily for 4 yrs. I was in methadone withdrawal for 6 days and have taken 4mg of sub a day for 4 days now. I'm currently on day 10 off of Methadone. It doesn't take away all the withdrawal and only seems to last me about 12 hrs but it is making this bearable. I'll be starting to taper my dose in 2 or 3 days. Would taking the suboxone restart the withdrawal cycle to day 1 or will tapering down to .25 and off of it over the next 10-14 days help make it ALOT easier to be done? I have a great support system in place and moving to be with my family in another state. I tapered from 100 mg to 30 to do this. I just want to be done and get my life going as normal again. Methadone saved my life. It's time i do it without my daily crutch. I am super motivated to stay clean and do anything that i need to. I'm just afraid that I'm prolonging the misery. If anyone has any advise, suggestions or experience doing this i would greatly appreciate it. Thank you!

 

[JessFR]

I'm sorry but I'm really unclear what you're asking.

Ok, you were on 30mg methadone for 4 years. You're trying to get off it using a subuxone taper, and you're currently on the 10th day of doing that.

Beyond that I'm sorry but I'm really unclear what you're asking.

I'd love to help with your question though so if you could clarify for me what you've taken over the last 10 days and what your concern is I'll do my best to answer you.

 

[sherlock14]

I'm sorry but I'm really unclear what you're asking.

Ok, you were on 30mg methadone for 4 years. You're trying to get off it using a subuxone taper, and you're currently on the 10th day of doing that.

Beyond that I'm sorry but I'm really unclear what you're asking.

I'd love to help with your question though so if you could clarify for me what you've taken over the last 10 days and what your concern is I'll do my best to answer you.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I explain the situation better. I was on methadone for 4 yrs. I tapered from 100 down to 20 over around 2 yrs. I was having ALOT of trouble tapering and had to go back up to 30. My doctor, as i was having so much trouble tapering, gave me the option of doing a 14-21 day Suboxone taper starting a few days after discontinuation of methadone. My last dose was Tuesday a week ago. I started the subs on Monday. I have taken 4 mg everyday since and will be tapering down to .25 and then completely off over the next 2 weeks or so.
My concern is that by doing this suboxone taper i basically wasted 6 days of withdrawal. I'm afraid that once the taper is over i will be back to square one and have to go through it all over again. I know suboxone works for short acting opiates but I've never seen anyone use it to taper off of methadone. I know 21 days isn't long enough to develop a significant dependence on the suboxone, especially when tapering but I'm just worried it'll be like I'm starting over again on withdrawal. I know I won't feel great after but my goal is to be off all opioids completely and I'm terrified that this taper was a mistake and i should have just finished cold turkey.
Sorry again and thanks for any help you can offer

 

[JessFR]

Ah OK, so you had 6 days off methadone essentially so you could start subuxone and then taper off subuxone. Interesting approach. I've never used subuxone myself so fair warning my thinking here is more theoretical than experience. And while I've got lots of experience with methadone I've never tapered off methadone either. Only time I got off methadone was by returning to heroin.

Ok so, assuming this works like the doctor is thinking, I don't think you'll have wasted those 6 days. Mainly on the basis that methadone withdrawal lasts a LOT longer than 6 days.

Hopefully, and I'd imagine this is what your doctor is hoping for, when you get off the subuxone you'll have a lower tolerance than when you stopped the methadone.

So yeah, sorry but there's no way to be sure. How are you feeling at the moment? Like I would assume you were feeling pretty damn crappy by 6 days. I start feeling pretty unwell by 3 days without methadone.

How have you been doing with the methadone? You probably want to feel better, but still not great. So that your tolerance will still be dropping in this time but without as much suffering.

This kinda sounds to me like an attempt to make the withdrawal feel less intense, but at the expense of lasting a bit longer.

 

[sherlock14]

I know they use suboxone for a 5-7 day taper to get you off of short acting opiates in most detoxes now, just as they used to use Methadone the same way. I've never heard it used for Methadone though, unless for maintenance, and that's what worries me

 

[Ganjcat]

sounds to me like it might soon be time to just quit mate you are on the meth your on less than half the dose I'm on you gotta do it sometime bro if your serious it should be reasonably possible goodluck whatever you decide

 

[sherlock14]

sounds to me like it might soon be time to just quit mate you are on the meth your on less than half the dose I'm on you gotta do it sometime bro if your serious it should be reasonably possible goodluck whatever you decide

I already did. Haven't had Methadone for 10 days. Doing a sub taper at the moment and will finish in the next 14 days or so. Just wondering moreso what I'm in for once it's done. I've walked of a heroin habit using a sub taper relatively painlessly years and years ago.I relapsed awhile later and then got on Methadone but that was from a whole other issue. I was run over by a car while on my motorcycle. Also it took me 2 years or so of tapering to get to 30mg. I was at 100 for a few years. I just couldn't taper down anymore and not be in sick most of the day. I tried for months.

 

[sherlock14]

Ah OK, so you had 6 days off methadone essentially so you could start subuxone and then taper off subuxone. Interesting approach. I've never used subuxone myself so fair warning my thinking here is more theoretical than experience. And while I've got lots of experience with methadone I've never tapered off methadone either. Only time I got off methadone was by returning to heroin.

Ok so, assuming this works like the doctor is thinking, I don't think you'll have wasted those 6 days. Mainly on the basis that methadone withdrawal lasts a LOT longer than 6 days.

Hopefully, and I'd imagine this is what your doctor is hoping for, when you get off the subuxone you'll have a lower tolerance than when you stopped the methadone.

So yeah, sorry but there's no way to be sure. How are you feeling at the moment? Like I would assume you were feeling pretty damn crappy by 6 days. I start feeling pretty unwell by 3 days without methadone.

How have you been doing with the methadone? You probably want to feel better, but still not great. So that your tolerance will still be dropping in this time but without as much suffering.

This kinda sounds to me like an attempt to make the withdrawal feel less intense, but at the expense of lasting a bit longer.

Ya I was feeling horrible at day 6 when i started the sub taper.

 

[Ganjcat]

I already did. Haven't had Methadone for 10 days. Doing a sub taper at the moment and will finish in the next 14 days or so. Just wondering moreso what I'm in for once it's done. I've walked of a heroin habit using a sub taper relatively painlessly years and years ago.I relapsed awhile later and then got on Methadone but that was from a whole other issue. I was run over by a car while on my motorcycle. Also it took me 2 years or so of tapering to get to 30mg. I was at 100 for a few years. I just couldn't taper down anymore and not be in sick most of the day. I tried for months.

Don't think like that don't dread what to come don't think about tomorrow think about the present take it one day at a time sounds to me like your worrying to much and giving yourself more anxiety than you need

 

[sherlock14]

Don't think like that don't dread what to come don't think about tomorrow think about the present take it one day at a time sounds to me like your worrying to much and giving yourself more anxiety than you need

I probably am. Just worried all this will be for nothing. I know i won't use but i don't wanna crawl back to the clinic or go on subs long term if this doesn't work either.

 

[Ganjcat]

I probably am. Just worried all this will be for nothing. I know i won't use but i don't wanna crawl back to the clinic or go on subs long term if this doesn't work either.

I wasn't tryna patronize you btw mate I'm stable myself... Mostly if you think your not ready just stay on the methadone, or subs you have managed to get down to a low dose already right? Just stick to that if you think that's right and just keep tapering off 5-10% at a time like I said take it 1 day at a time bro ime you gotta have a strong mind and be able to control your thought pattern mind over matter kind of thing I know I'm not gonna be quitting methadone anytime soon but I've a lone long way.. I'm probably patting myself on the back a bit to much but I'm just glad I'm not going sleep/waking up worrying about what I'm gonna do for the day I actually went up 10 mg so I'm up to 60 mg now best thing I ever did I was getting lots of cravings and the effects of the juice was wearing off and getting to weak I thought it was normal but the 10mg increase has really hit the sweetspot I was stupid and kept using for a fair few weeks when I went on the meth I thought I really might have been in trouble but I just kept going chemist and stopped using every other day I didn't even miss it I've just seen to many people and now myself included fucked up from it same with alcohol but that's another story I honestly prefer the methadone now I only use now and again just for the taste and if I'm being completely honest I'm not ready to completely let go yet all I can do is make the best of my situation and make the best of what I got if you wanna pm me anytime feel free I didn't realise but I had my privacy setting so basically no one could message me but anyone can now

 

[sherlock14]

I wasn't tryna patronize you btw mate I'm stable myself... Mostly if you think your not ready just stay on the methadone, or subs you have managed to get down to a low dose already right? Just stick to that if you think that's right and just keep tapering off 5-10% at a time like I said take it 1 day at a time bro ime you gotta have a strong mind and be able to control your thought pattern mind over matter kind of thing I know I'm not gonna be quitting methadone anytime soon but I've a lone long way.. I'm probably patting myself on the back a bit to much but I'm just glad I'm not going sleep/waking up worrying about what I'm gonna do for the day I actually went up 10 mg so I'm up to 60 mg now best thing I ever did I was getting lots of cravings and the effects of the juice was wearing off and getting to weak I thought it was normal but the 10mg increase has really hit the sweetspot I was stupid and kept using for a fair few weeks when I went on the meth I thought I really might have been in trouble but I just kept going chemist and stopped using every other day I didn't even miss it I've just seen to many people and now myself included fucked up from it same with alcohol but that's another story I honestly prefer the methadone now I only use now and again just for the taste and if I'm being completely honest I'm not ready to completely let go yet all I can do is make the best of my situation and make the best of what I got if you wanna pm me anytime feel free I didn't realise but I had my privacy setting so basically no one could message me but anyone can now

Thanks. I appreciate it. I'm done with the Methadone no matter how this goes. Too many bad side effects. It did save my life though. I'm gonna try and ride this out. If i can't, I'm looking into getting the sublocade shot. We'll see

 

[Ganjcat]

Thanks. I appreciate it. I'm done with the Methadone no matter how this goes. Too many bad side effects. It did save my life though. I'm gonna try and ride this out. If i can't, I'm looking into getting the sublocade shot. We'll see

I respect that.. What is the sublocade shot for? if you don't mind me asking

 

[sherlock14]

I respect that.. What is the sublocade shot for? if you don't mind me asking

It's a once monthly buprenorphine shot. They say after a few shots you can come off of it with little to no withdrawal as it leaves your system so slowly. It's fairly new(past 5 yrs) so I'm still doing research on it as an option

 

[Ganjcat]

It's a once monthly buprenorphine shot. They say after a few shots you can come off of it with little to no withdrawal as it leaves your system so slowly. It's fairly new(past 5 yrs) so I'm still doing research on it as an option

wow sounds.. Like it could be a miracle cure but I am a little sceptical ime if it sounds to good to be true it is quite a lot of time but maybe this really is one of those things this is true just be careful mate and please let me know if it works for you if it does I might research it myself I heard that undercover police who go deep undercover like they purposely get addicted to heroin and get in with a big dealer etc then when their operation is over they get given a special medicine that gets them off the gear with little to no withdrawal I've never been able to find out what it is they take maybe it's bulshit my mates house whoes a dealer has a lot of different people from different walks of life come round all connected by our drug use but you hear some really out their funky stuff sometime when your passing the foil and spliffs round most of it is probably slithering junky bollox but I do here things sometimes that sound like they have some factual basis ima pay him a visit actually when I get paid just to chill and have a beer.

He is a hardcore junky, heinjects crack, heroin and God knows what else has done for decades and he's an alcoholic he's a good honest dealer though already for a 10 year junky idk why but I find something about chilling their attractive just all the criminality I know goes on all the excitement and I have respect when I first went round because I am clean shaven and look after myself even though I'm a junky myself and I have a bit of a baby face one or two have tried it on but I offered them both out one of them even had a knife but put it back in his pocket and backed down when he seen I wasn't phased and would probably overpower him and grab the knife off him anyway after that no one messes with me down their and his mum the dealers mum who is actually a nice woman.

I have had dinner round their a few times when it's just me him and his mum he knows things to like me a lot of things I don't to because obviously he's been about a lot longer he's twice my age nearly and could easily rip me off if he wants I mean I ain't stupid I know if he gets half an egg for me he's making a fiver or tenner off it on the side and I have no problem with that in fact I like helping him.

A while back I kind of fell out with him when out of the blue he stopped doing my lay ons he wouldn't even do a tenner when I know he had plenty just being an asshole for no reason and he has done me over a hundred quids worth before and I paid him on time just like every other time why does everyone I meet who is cool eventually turn into a asshole if they're a drug user I mean I can be a nob myself probably be the biggest cunt in the world at times but I still won't let someone go without if I know that person is good for it or something similar like that because I know what it's like when your at rock bottom the pain is unbearable and no one gives a damn if you live through another night or not it's a tough world a tough tough world and it's been harder for me than most unfortunately..

 

[sherlock14]

wow sounds.. Like it could be a miracle cure but I am a little sceptical ime if it sounds to good to be true it is quite a lot of time but maybe this really is one of those things this is true just be careful mate and please let me know if it works for you if it does I might research it myself I heard that undercover police who go deep undercover like they purposely get addicted to heroin and get in with a big dealer etc then when their operation is over they get given a special medicine that gets them off the gear with little to no withdrawal I've never been able to find out what it is they take maybe it's bulshit my mates house whoes a dealer has a lot of different people from different walks of life come round all connected by our drug use but you hear some really out their funky stuff sometime when your passing the foil and spliffs round most of it is probably slithering junky bollox but I do here things sometimes that sound like they have some factual basis ima pay him a visit actually when I get paid just to chill and have a beer.

He is a hardcore junky, heinjects crack, heroin and God knows what else has done for decades and he's an alcoholic he's a good honest dealer though already for a 10 year junky idk why but I find something about chilling their attractive just all the criminality I know goes on all the excitement and I have respect when I first went round because I am clean shaven and look after myself even though I'm a junky myself and I have a bit of a baby face one or two have tried it on but I offered them both out one of them even had a knife but put it back in his pocket and backed down when he seen I wasn't phased and would probably overpower him and grab the knife off him anyway after that no one messes with me down their and his mum the dealers mum who is actually a nice woman.

I have had dinner round their a few times when it's just me him and his mum he knows things to like me a lot of things I don't to because obviously he's been about a lot longer he's twice my age nearly and could easily rip me off if he wants I mean I ain't stupid I know if he gets half an egg for me he's making a fiver or tenner off it on the side and I have no problem with that in fact I like helping him.

A while back I kind of fell out with him when out of the blue he stopped doing my lay ons he wouldn't even do a tenner when I know he had plenty just being an asshole for no reason and he has done me over a hundred quids worth before and I paid him on time just like every other time why does everyone I meet who is cool eventually turn into a asshole if they're a drug user I mean I can be a nob myself probably be the biggest cunt in the world at times but I still won't let someone go without if I know that person is good for it or something similar like that because I know what it's like when your at rock bottom the pain is unbearable and no one gives a damn if you live through another night or not it's a tough world a tough tough world and it's been harder for me than most unfortunately..

Ya that special med for cops is bs. Maybe they used to just give em a buprenorphine taper as it's been around since the 70s just not fda approved for addiction use til 2001/2002.
Ya the sublocade does sound too good but it isn't without it's flaws. I've been reading about it for 3 days.

 

[epochimah]

Ya that special med for cops is bs. Maybe they used to just give em a buprenorphine taper as it's been around since the 70s just not fda approved for addiction use til 2001/2002.
Ya the sublocade does sound too good but it isn't without it's flaws. I've been reading about it for 3 days.

Hey bud, Ive been on subs for a few years. Its pretty fucked up that alot of pain management doctors are prescribing this soley for pain WITHOUT explaining the side effects and the dependency. Seriously telling patients that it is easier come off of than hydrocodone or oxy etc. I was told it would decrease my tolerance so that "when you need to go back on opioids, your tolerance will be lower and they will work better". What a crock of shit. Yeah im a little salty! Lol. Just for back ground I had 2 surgeries within a year due to the first surgeon severely screwing up. Then after the 2nd and a longgggg rehabilitation (physical therapy) period I was told I would need another. I have yet to do it. I also happen to be in the med field so I have had a "sobering" experience to what its like to be on the other side of things. Hummbling for sure.

So what I have to say about the Subs taper is first, I am super happy to hear that they didnt start you off at like 12-24mg a day. Some do, and they are only doing a disservice in my opinion. Going from 4mg to .25 in such a short period ....hmmm thats the only thing Im questioning honestly. It may be that you need to stretch it out a little more, and thats ok! I wouldnt think of this as Sub being a different substance in terms of Oh no, Im totally off the methadone and now this....because right bow your brain doesnt care, there is no difference. To you, yes. Some it takes longer. But I def dont hink you wasted those days...I totally get what your saying. What is happening is just lessening the severity in symptoms but prolonging it too. Its the way it goes, when choosing this option. I think you are doing fucking fantastic if you jumped from 30mg to 4 of subs. No joke.

I am interested in your progress as I jave not made the jump. Its a ball and chain for me. Tired of the monthly appointments and $$$! Are you taking the film? And what are the instructions the doc gave you to do this?

 

[Luthien2]

Hey bud, Ive been on subs for a few years. Its pretty fucked up that alot of pain management doctors are prescribing this soley for pain WITHOUT explaining the side effects and the dependency. Seriously telling patients that it is easier come off of than hydrocodone or oxy etc. I was told it would decrease my tolerance so that "when you need to go back on opioids, your tolerance will be lower and they will work better". What a crock of shit. Yeah im a little salty! Lol. Just for back ground I had 2 surgeries within a year due to the first surgeon severely screwing up. Then after the 2nd and a longgggg rehabilitation (physical therapy) period I was told I would need another. I have yet to do it. I also happen to be in the med field so I have had a "sobering" experience to what its like to be on the other side of things. Hummbling for sure.

So what I have to say about the Subs taper is first, I am super happy to hear that they didnt start you off at like 12-24mg a day. Some do, and they are only doing a disservice in my opinion. Going from 4mg to .25 in such a short period ....hmmm thats the only thing Im questioning honestly. It may be that you need to stretch it out a little more, and thats ok! I wouldnt think of this as Sub being a different substance in terms of Oh no, Im totally off the methadone and now this....because right bow your brain doesnt care, there is no difference. To you, yes. Some it takes longer. But I def dont hink you wasted those days...I totally get what your saying. What is happening is just lessening the severity in symptoms but prolonging it too. Its the way it goes, when choosing this option. I think you are doing fucking fantastic if you jumped from 30mg to 4 of subs. No joke.

I am interested in your progress as I jave not made the jump. Its a ball and chain for me. Tired of the monthly appointments and $$$! Are you taking the film? And what are the instructions the doc gave you to do this?

Just wanted to say: I’m loving my sublocade shot. I tried for YEARS (20yrs on subs ) to taper and jump and even with a doctors help it could not be done without withdrawals. From even immeasurable amounts of subs days apart…
Decades of putting tablets/strips under my tongue is a mind-bender for sure to break. A couple months in to the injection and I’m still thinking I “need” something under my tongue. But I don’t. It passes …, shot hurts like a MOFO but worth it imo. Soo far soo good! OH and after years of $$$$$$$$$ each month for subs this shot costs me - wait for it - $5.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Just wanted to say: I’m loving my sublocade shot.
........
this shot costs me - wait for it - $5.

Really??? I've read that it's very expensive. How did you pay $5 for it??

 

[polarthedog]

It's a once monthly buprenorphine shot. They say after a few shots you can come off of it with little to no withdrawal as it leaves your system so slowly. It's fairly new(past 5 yrs) so I'm still doing research on it as an option

There’s also an implant they can put in you that’s lasts I think 3 months