O-PCx antibiotic cpabilities

[skamariapastora]

I've used oodles of mxe, ketamine and 3-meo-Pcp in the past with never a single negative symptom besides becoming a bit of a space case though... Nevertheless, in the name of science and in a bit of a bout of manic depression i vaporized over 50 mg of the same material to see if i had any immuno-deficiency over the next few days. Will report back in a week. And dopamimetic, i know... I powered through a couple ounce of mxe in my time and despite the damage it did to my system, i was also able to function like a normal, non-bipolar human being... But it comes down to vendor responsibility if there is something dangerous going on here, and even my world-class supplier once sold me a badly synthesized batch of a-Pvp that reeked of alkyl and bromine... I'm sticking to ALD-52 until this all blows over... That one is a god-send of complete serotonin/dopamine reset button as far as my personal issues are concerned...

 

[clubcard]

Remember - a new medicine isn't required to be better than equivalent medicines, proof of it better than a placebo i.e. don't trust big medicine one inch. Read 'Bad Pharma' for the 250 page, detailed explaination.

 

[serotonin2A]

Remember - a new medicine isn't required to be better than equivalent medicines, proof of it better than a placebo i.e. don't trust big medicine one inch. Read 'Bad Pharma' for the 250 page, detailed explaination.

Yes, because medicine worked so well for most of human history when there was no need to prove efficacy. There is a reason why controlled trials are the norm for approving new medications.

 

[skamariapastora]

Just to finish off my two cents in here, after the whole episode with the friend i sold some O-PCE to and his subsequent sickness, i said I would take it upon myself to duplicate his pattern of use to look for any kind of immuno-suppression - over the course of about 4 days i routinely vaporized between 5-10mg from a bulb or on top of cannabis maybe 4-5 times each night, using about 100mg total. About 3, maybe 4 days later after running out of the stuff and figuring that'd be enough, that day while at work I became quite ill. Sudden onset of either a particularly bad cold or the flu. Fever, chills, a feeling of weakness and as if I were about to faint, just general flu symptoms. It is extremely, extremely rare that i get sick from common illnesses. I was bedridden for 5 days taking 2 500mg paracetamol every 6 hours and still shivering the moment i got out of bed. So.... Again, potentially all coincidence, but 2 for 2 between my friend and I who rarely get sick normally, the regular use over a period of days without a day off and we each came down with a particularly bad illness. Take from that what you will. I don't intend on purchasing anything but 3-meo-PCP from now on.

 

[crOOk]

Remember - a new medicine isn't required to be better than equivalent medicines

It does where I live, offering a significant advantage over other existing preparations is required for a substance to be approved.

 

[mindseye888]

I think people are confusing imuno-suppressing drugs and antibiotics.
Wouldn't they test antibiotic capabilities by giving these drugs to sick people and waiting to see if their condition improves?
I'm sure that, although pharma companies are arseholes, there intention with studying antibiotic potential was to cure peoples sickness.
Sorry if I've missed something, but why would consuming a drug until it makes you sick really prove antibiotic capabilities, wouldn't that more likely suggest imuno-suppressent capabilities.

 

[crOOk]

It is also important to note that they aren't just claiming antibiotic effects, but broad spectrum activity against protozoa and also viruses. I don't know of any compounds that have such a broad spectrum of activity against pathogens in vivo.

Well you probably do. They are called biocides. :/

 

[crOOk]

The antimicrobial effects of ketamine combined with propofol: An in vitro study

http://tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3109/2000-1967-211

The doses found to elicit antibiotic effects are in the 5g-30g range if I remember correctly (please double-check for exact figures).

Ketamine has also been shown to be immunosuppressive in vivo, reducing cytotoxic NK-cell activity, lower leucocyte adherence, decrease phagozytosis by neutrophiles by suppressing their expression of CD18,CD62L,CD11b and CD16, inhibits oxidative bursts of neutrophiles by suppressing p38 MAPK activation which is needed for phosphorylation of the NADPH oxidase subunit p47phox, suppresses transcription of TNFa and IL-6 in LPS-activated macrophages as well as reducing their NO production, leading to a significant reduction in macrophage immune function, possibly by means of preventing translocation of c-Jun and c-Fos to the cell nucleus by inhibiting JNK activation through TLR4 activation mediated phosphorylation.

Does not look like an antibiotic to me. Only god knows what happened in that big slur of Propofol ketamine and animal tissue, but it is surely not representative of ketamine's in-vivo effects on bacterial growth.

 

[serotonin2A]

Well you probably do. They are called biocides. :/

Biocides are defined as any chemical that can be used to kill harmful organisms. So that could include antibiotics, disinfectants, etc. But they are not necessarily broad-spectrum or active in vivo.

 

[crOOk]

You're right. You still got what I was saying though. Is there a word for a substance that is poisonous to all animal or even eucaryotic species?

I don't plan to use Deschloroketamine anymore, but hearing of a drug-like substance with seemingly unspecific antimicrobial activity against virii, bacteria and protozoa has me very curious:
Why would it not harm human cells?
Is it merely a very potent immunomodulary substance? If that is the case, could it have the opposite mechanism that makes ketamine an immunosupressant?
Why has such a drug neither received attention by the pharmaceutical community, nor has been pursued by the owner of the patent?

I have a suspicion that the owner plain made these case reports up to fulfill requirements for being granted the patent. Even if some form of proof is necessary for that, the medical records could have been fabricated. I can't see his motivation for that, so if he has not, we should take Deschloroketamine very seriously because long term damage seems likely should said antimicrobial activity be elicited by O-PCM.

Can anyone supply some information on the requirements to get a patent filled?

I have another vague suspicion that deschloroketamine's effects may be similar to those of benzothiophenylcyclohexylpiperidine (BTCP) derivates which are known to inhibit trypanothione reductase (thereby being effective in-vivo against trypanosomatid diseases like Mb. Chaga and leishmaniasis, the latter of which was mentioned in the patent) and genzimidazole/benzimidazolylbenzene-sulfonamide derivates (which elicit both antibacterial and antifungal activity).

I hope someone more familiar with biochemistry and pharmacology shares my interest for this issue and could perform some binding studies of O-PCM on 3D-Models of potential targets of aforementioned drugs.


Oh and let's not forget about metabolites here. Afaik CYP2B6 should primarily be responsible for it's N-demethylation, but I'm not sure what would happen to 2-phenyl-2-aminocyclohexane from there, nor have I been able to find any information on the effects of this metabolite.

 

[serotonin2A]

You're right. You still got what I was saying though. Is there a word for a substance that is poisonous to all animal or even eucaryotic species?

I don't plan to use Deschloroketamine anymore, but hearing of a drug-like substance with seemingly unspecific antimicrobial activity against virii, bacteria and protozoa has me very curious:
Why would it not harm human cells?
Is it merely a very potent immunomodulary substance? If that is the case, could it have the opposite mechanism that makes ketamine an immunosupressant?
Why has such a drug neither received attention by the pharmaceutical community, nor has been pursued by the owner of the patent?

I have a suspicion that the owner plain made these case reports up to fulfill requirements for being granted the patent. Even if some form of proof is necessary for that, the medical records could have been fabricated. I can't see his motivation for that, so if he has not, we should take Deschloroketamine very seriously because long term damage seems likely should said antimicrobial activity be elicited by O-PCM.

Can anyone supply some information on the requirements to get a patent filled?

I have another vague suspicion that deschloroketamine's effects may be similar to those of benzothiophenylcyclohexylpiperidine (BTCP) derivates which are known to inhibit trypanothione reductase (thereby being effective in-vivo against trypanosomatid diseases like Mb. Chaga and leishmaniasis, the latter of which was mentioned in the patent) and genzimidazole/benzimidazolylbenzene-sulfonamide derivates (which elicit both antibacterial and antifungal activity).

I hope someone more familiar with biochemistry and pharmacology shares my interest for this issue and could perform some binding studies of O-PCM on 3D-Models of potential targets of aforementioned drugs.


Oh and let's not forget about metabolites here. Afaik CYP2B6 should primarily be responsible for it's N-demethylation, but I'm not sure what would happen to 2-phenyl-2-aminocyclohexane from there, nor have I been able to find any information on the effects of this metabolite.

I think some people may have a fundamental misunderstanding of how patent filings work. When you apply for a patent, you don't have to present any evidence to support your claims. And examiners seldom request supporting evidence unless the invention violates the laws of physics (like perpetual motion). Patent filings are not supposed to be a way to report scientific findings; there is no peer review system for patent filings...the examiners job is to make sure that an invention is novel, useful, and non-obvious. The point of the patent isn't to prove that an invention works, but rather to establish who has the legal right to sell the invention. There are many bad patents granted for inventions that don't work as claimed.

 

[crOOk]

the examiners job is to make sure that an invention is novel, useful, and non-obvious. The point of the patent isn't to prove that an invention works, but rather to establish who has the legal right to sell the invention. There are many bad patents granted for inventions that don't work as claimed.

That is exactly what I thought. I figured he needed the case reports to claim novelty of his invention, but didn't have to supply any proof. So we could be dealing with a case of bullshit here.

 

[send]

Given the level of use/popularity of these chemicals these days, are we nearing a consensus that O-PCx chemicals lack antibiotic capabilities? Wouldn't there be plenty of horror stories floating around by now if otherwise?

 

[serotonin2A]

^No it does.. perhaps.. same with a bunch of other compounds, potentially o-PCx and not, as has been stated previously. Now to what extent, and at what point the health-benefits become extremely outweighed by any type of defecit that is caused by the compulsive redosing these compounds come along with, when used in a non-medical setting.. This is probably the same reason why it is not widely accepted in the medical culture, as if its some kind of magical cure-all that we're all looking for -- sadly this is not the case.

Um, care to share the evidence?